The Haze discussion thread

[Donald Mallard]

People act like Sam gave Nevil seed for free no Nevil paid big money for the seed he got and Nevil told me there was no agreement just a exchange of seed for large amounts of of money.

You dont sell seed to a seed seller and expect them to not make seed.

Why was the Flying Dutchman and others allowed to sell pure Haze seed ? Sorry a thinking man would lough at this claim.

As for the work Nevil did with the Haze i have posted it there is a reason why Nevil kept plants for years if the Haze pure he made was as good as the parental plants why would you need to keep clones.

Nice looking flower Donald.

yea im not sure i could agree to such a deal either ,
and i concur once a person has paid for a thing , its theirs to what they like ,
thats me anyhow ...
i do recall nevil mentioning something about not thinking it was a cool thing ,
so that seems to indicate him and sam did discuss something of that nature anyhow ,
i guess that was between them so not for us to be worried about ...

yea thanks hempy , shes not a bad looking girl , the rain has finally stopped so she will enjoy the last few weeks of her life ,
as it was meant to be .... or should be anyhow ...

 

[@hempy]

The coconut water method

Boil tap water and let it cool then fill a Lt bottle and add 20 mil of 100% organic coconut water mix.

Pure some in a cup place seed in and let the soak for 24 hours.

Remove place in a paper towl ( I use Chunks wipes ) place in a tupperware container leaving a little of the lid open and keep the temps around 28c i went as high as 30c.

Use use the rest of the mix to keep it hydrated.

This is the kit you can buy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLRWrjy8UGg

link to were to buy it on the video info

The Fastest Seed Germination [Hydrogen Peroxide]
Hello everyone, in this video you can see the fastest way to germinate seeds. Even if you think your old seeds are dead, try using 3% hydrogen peroxide and there is much higher chance of germinating even 10 years old seeds. Let me know if you know a better or faster way to start seeds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zfV9pt8Vx4

I will post up other methods to hope this helps.

 

[Greatdalas]

I have been interested in methods of germinating old seed and doing a bit of research of late on the subject.

I used the coco water method and had good success.

I plan on getting this new product that replaces the lost enzymes and hormones in very old seed to use on old seed i have and increase germination %.

There are some very interesting methods from home made formulas using dry peas to kits that you can guy online.

How many of you are holding or trying to germinate old seed and have used any of these formulas or kits offered now with success ?, I would love to hear your experiences and results.

I usually germinate old seeds ( first sterillized the seed) , Sand the shell gently, put ga3(200/300ppm) previously dissolved in alcohol and mix in destilled water, 22/23°c + root stimulator + top max 12h
4h in liquid Earthworm humus or Humic acids or
And put on moistened but well drained paper napkins, I usually put napkins on top and under the ones that are already moistened to suck up the excess water, I repeat the process several times until I see that they have humidity but also a high enough air ratio to To prevent old seeds from rotting as they are very delicate and tend to have atrophied root, I put it in a taper with a low height that comes with a drainer, which I use to put the paper with the napkins and that the air circulates and does not rot.
Open 1 or 2 times a day to oxygenate the container and check the status of the seeds once a day.
They can take up to 3 weeks to germinate.
Normally some come out without a main shoot, just with cotyledons or a couple of leaves, but without shoots to continue growing (some (70% + -) will recover if treated properly and will generate new shoots that little by little begin to grow. in a normal way (without wrinkles, deformed leaves or similar things, very common in seeds in that state during the first weeks. Others, after a while, will dry out without sprouting, 30%.
They can take to recover from 1 month to 3 months depending mainly on the state of the root, when the root recovers growth and if there are new and healthy secondary roots, the plant begins to grow more quickly, so it is very important not to saturate with water the seedlings and old seeds to stimulate root development and not drown them (which is very easy ...)


The more important the humidity/air %. crack the seeds just before putting on the wet napkins, not in the water as they will drown

 

[funkyhorse]

EWC method works too

Germinating old seeds





Thank you very much for your kind words my friend. That link on the water pollination is interesting. I clicked on it though and only got one post of him pollinating a PCK, I didn't see the rest of the thread. I haven't had much time to research this, but I'm always looking for more knowledge and better methods. Thanks romanoweed for posting that.

I'm happy to share with you what I've found that works for me and some reasoning behind it. Maybe there is something someone can find useful from this
Here is what I do for old seeds:
My method involves washing the seeds to kill any fungus. Damping off is often a problem with old seeds. I soak seeds in tap water and household chlorine bleach (no scent, just plain bleach) for 20 minutes. The ratio is 1 Tablespoon of bleach per gallon of water.
After the soak, I dry the seeds and either crack the seeds or scarify them. I don't have a seed cracker but small hospital hemostats work if you're careful. Usually I scarify them with either fine sandpaper, 2000 grit or an emery board, the kind used for fingernails. Here, I just want to make a pin hole on the side of the seed along the ridge, where the 2 halves of the outer shells meet. You only need a light pass once or twice usually. Don't take too much off. Just break through and make a pinhole in the shell where the 2 halves meet. This allows the liquid to get in as old seeds usually have very hard shells.

Back to sterilization; I use latex gloves when handling the seeds after the 1st soak in bleach solution. Even if I use the paper towel method on new seeds, I use latex gloves, especially when transplanting them into the medium. I had about 20% of my seedlings die off several years ago from transplanting seedlings without gloves from paper towel to medium.
After cracking or scarifying the seeds, I put them in a strainer and rinse them in tap water.
I don't have access to fresh coconut milk, so I use organic, as fresh as I can find. Coconut is a seed, a nut or a fruit. But as a seed, it has pretty much all the goodies for a new plant to live on for a while. It has cytokinins, phytohormones which promote cell division, as well as gibberellic acid, which has been shown to increase old seed germination.
H202 increases the oxygen in the coconut water. Seeds need oxygen for aerobic respiration, breaking down food so the embryo can have energy. I don't know what other reasons for the H202, but I assume that is the primary function. I do know it increases germination rates. I'm guessing, but I would say my ration is about 1/4th teaspoon of 3% H202 to 2 shot glasses of coconut milk. You can add a pinch of finely powdered diastatic malt to add enzymes. On the KG repro, I also added 1 drop of Roots Excellurator Gold.

To be honest, Coconut milk and H202 are probably the most important ingredient. I think they are all important, but those 2 are really good by themselves. As far as time, I go 24 hours minimum and usually go 36 hours, depending on the seeds, my gut feelings, etc.
After the soak, plant the seeds in fresh ewc. I don't use the commercial bagged ewc sold on the shelves. I have my own worm farms just for these occasions. I'll use bagged ewc in soil, but not for sprouting seeds. I plant the seeds in trays or starter cups filled with fresh ewc, with seeds being planted 1/4 to 1/2 inch deep. Don't pack the ewc, keep it loose for oxygen and so the seeds don't get too wet. I put them in my cloning chamber and just mist spray the dome. Keep them warm and humid. I like to keep everything at 80-85F. As long as there is no remaining organic matter in the ewc, they won't mold. Don't let the ewc get dry. Mist spray them if they do. You don't want them too wet, but not dry either just moist. Keep the dome and walls inside the chamber sprayed once or twice.Because we don't want our seeds too wet and have plenty of oxygen, we want the RH to be very high. I put the whole thing on a seed mat and a thermometer inside to monitor temps and RH. RH is usually 85-99%.
Patience. The seeds have been asleep a long time, it takes time to wake up. My KG didn't come up until day 31, then they all started coming up after that. A friend of mine last month had the same thing with old seeds, started coming up on day 31. Give them time and lots of positive vibes.
Peace, God bless

Senegal Haze made before 2008 by Afropips I sprouted with this SolarLogos EWC method.
I had very good success with GreatDalas method and germinated my old seeds this way and will keep trying with this Greatdalas method the rest of the old seed I have which was the best method for a non lab natural environment. Old seed get into mutation stage and take 3-4 months until they get to 30-40 cms height with normal growth and this is for old sativa seed
There is a huge difference between this Senegal Haze I grew from seed and the one I grew from cut
These are the buds I put yesterday in the jar from the cut run, it smells incredible, it is very resinous and grown indoor from cut looks much more leaning to the Phoenix Hz than to the Senegal Landrace as it seemed when grown from old seed

 

[marijuanamat]

Best way i've found to get old seeds to germinate is to scuff/sand the edge of the seed that splits open. I managed to get some 20 year old zamal seeds to germinate in 2 days, and this was after about 4 weeks of the paper towel method. I was going to just bury em and hope for the best but after 25 years of growing you learn a trick or 2, and 2 days after scuffing them, and putting them back in the paper towel they all but 1 sprouted. I've still got a few Zamal left so when i germinate them i'll be scuffing them first.

 

[...CR500AF...]

EWC method works too


Senegal Haze made before 2008 by Afropips I sprouted with this SolarLogos EWC method.
I had very good success with GreatDalas method and germinated my old seeds this way and will keep trying with this Greatdalas method the rest of the old seed I have which was the best method for a non lab natural environment. Old seed get into mutation stage and take 3-4 months until they get to 30-40 cms height with normal growth and this is for old sativa seed
There is a huge difference between this Senegal Haze I grew from seed and the one I grew from cut
These are the buds I put yesterday in the jar from the cut run, it smells incredible, it is very resinous and grown indoor from cut looks much more leaning to the Phoenix Hz than to the Senegal Landrace as it seemed when grown from old seed

Wow looks great my friend...

 

[TheDarkStorm]

This is dam stong.....have had to do slpw motipn walking more than afew times straight after smoking one, just sp I can walk straight and right trying not to look wrecked.......and on top of that waves of rushes keep hitting ypur had and the heart is getting mad palpitations.....

 

[Sub24ox7]

The mex haze x o. Haze /skunk#1 (a couple phenos not all) gets me too revved up when I take a gram of rso from it. Won’t do that again! It’s for smoking.
mex haze x o. Haze/skunk#1 bud stuffed black and mild dipped in o. Haze/ love potion x o. Haze/skunk#1 ethanol made oil.
https://youtu.be/qMkwuz0iXQg

 

[...CR500AF...]

Now that would be a prime candidate for the honey oil only pile, niceeeeeeeeee...

 

[Chi13]

The 2 types of highs i have found that do that in Nevil's work i describe as a Thia high that's the tripy high that comes at you in waves best way to describe it is a roller coaster ride.

Then you have what i call the Colombian High feels like you ran into a brick wall and it just keeps intensifying has a little body to it and one could call it a little noid to then settles to a strong find fk.

My favored is the Electric tripy roller coaster high

I like your description of "electric trippy roller coaster high". That feeling like you are at the top of the roller coaster and just about to go down. I used to love that kind of high, and have not had it properly in decades. Good description of the Colombian high too.

As far as the other haze type high that I think you and Tom were describing, I'm not sure how I'd cope with the paranoid hiding behind curtain high these days, although I would like to try that and see how I would handle it. I had a pheno of Nanan Bouclou x MM that reminded me of that; caused a feeling of impending doom for the first 15 minutes, where you would swear you will never touch cannabis again, then it clears to a great high!

I certainly think a lot of pot now has not got the intense edge it used to. I hope these highs make a comeback. I personally think there is too much emphasis on aroma over effect.

 

[@hempy]

I have 20 year old seed i still get up around 95% germination from that i do nothing to apart from add water and let them do there thing.

Then there are other seed that no mater if i split the seed case / scruff them with sand paper before hand just wont fire up.

I even remove the seed embryo after so many days and yes have had some grow after a while but the best results to date has been the coconut water method.

A friend has a genetic and tissue culture back ground and he told me it has more to do with the enzymes and hormones that have dried up that the seed embryo uses to fire up and starts to grow basically.

Science is advancing and going by what i was told they will be able to bring back genetics even if the seed wont germinate in time if they cant now.

You can buy things like seed starter that you soak the seed in that replaces the enzymes and hormones in the seed and that will be the next thing i will try.

 

[@hempy]

I like your description of "electric trippy roller coaster high". That feeling like you are at the top of the roller coaster and just about to go down. I used to love that kind of high, and have not had it properly in decades. Good description of the Colombian high too.

As far as the other haze type high that I think you and Tom were describing, I'm not sure how I'd cope with the paranoid hiding behind curtain high these days, although I would like to try that and see how I would handle it. I had a pheno of Nanan Bouclou x MM that reminded me of that; caused a feeling of impending doom for the first 15 minutes, where you would swear you will never touch cannabis again, then it clears to a great high!

I certainly think a lot of pot now has not got the intense edge it used to. I hope these highs make a comeback. I personally think there is too much emphasis on aroma over effect.

The plant i called Queeny had that racy high it would last 4 to 5 hours and you still would feel it after that it gave you that feeling of impending doom no matter were you were if you smoked it there was nothing social about her you just had to strap your self in and go with it that to me is Haze.

I have found both types of highs what i call the Thia high and the Colombian in the genetics Nevil made and the genetics Shantibaba had made.

The Old Kali mist also took you on a Journey and i think that's also a good description of a good sativa and a Haze high they take you on a Journey.

 

[Bmac1]

I had a look for the video but can't seem to find it. In it Kevin Jodrey discusses germinating old seeds and using SST to recharge them.

 

[star crash]

What’s the best way to store precious seed?

 

[Mimpi Manis]

Mr Star asked: "What’s the best way to store precious seed?"

According to Shantibaba, in the intervire I posted here recently, he's stored well packed seeds in the fridge for over 20 years. Around 5C from memory? Freezing is ok... BUT YOU CAN ONLY DO IT ONCE! For most of us, sounds like the fridge is the go. The interview is worth a watch for a few gems of other info he imparts as well.

 

[@hempy]

What’s the best way to store precious seed?

You have 2 options both need a special seed pack that you heat seal.

Both need the seed to be cured.

1/ In a fridge

2/ In a freezer but once you pull the seed out to un freeze and use you cant re freeze.

The seed packs need to be air/light/and moisture proof.

Freezer method seeds can stay viable for up to 50 years.

Fridge method up to 30 years.

You want a foil lined pack you can seal like this.


foil-lined packets for long-term storage in a refrigerator or freezer. They can also be heat-sealed with an iron for added protection.

look up a seed saver club near you and they should sell the packs.

 

[LostTribe]

I have 20 year old seed i still get up around 95% germination from that i do nothing to apart from add water and let them do there thing.

Then there are other seed that no mater if i split the seed case / scruff them with sand paper before hand just wont fire up.

I even remove the seed embryo after so many days and yes have had some grow after a while but the best results to date has been the coconut water method.

A friend has a genetic and tissue culture back ground and he told me it has more to do with the enzymes and hormones that have dried up that the seed embryo uses to fire up and starts to grow basically.

Science is advancing and going by what i was told they will be able to bring back genetics even if the seed wont germinate in time if they cant now.

You can buy things like seed starter that you soak the seed in that replaces the enzymes and hormones in the seed and that will be the next thing i will try.

Hempy

How do you do with the coconut water?

 

[@hempy]

The coconut water method

Boil tap water and let it cool then fill a Lt bottle and add 20 mil of 100% organic coconut water mix.

Pure some in a cup place seed in and let the soak for 24 hours.

Remove place in a paper towl ( I use Chunks wipes ) place in a tupperware container leaving a little of the lid open and keep the temps around 28c i went as high as 30c.

Use use the rest of the mix to keep it hydrated.

This is the kit you can buy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLRWrjy8UGg

link to were to buy it on the video info

The Fastest Seed Germination [Hydrogen Peroxide]
Hello everyone, in this video you can see the fastest way to germinate seeds. Even if you think your old seeds are dead, try using 3% hydrogen peroxide and there is much higher chance of germinating even 10 years old seeds. Let me know if you know a better or faster way to start seeds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zfV9pt8Vx4

I will post up other methods to hope this helps.

You can also by a product called seed starter that is a enzyme and hormone solution you put the seed in before germination that replaces the enzyme and hormones lost in old seed to.

I use chucks super wipe kitchen wipes they are sterile have holes for good air ration and holds a good amount of moisture that you be easily adjusted.

 

[@hempy]

I had a look for the video but can't seem to find it. In it Kevin Jodrey discusses germinating old seeds and using SST to recharge them.

I have seen that one to.

 

[star crash]

thanks guys …Most of mine are loosely stored in envelopes and vials in a cabinet I’ve got some of the more precious ones put in the refrigerator at the moment…going Step up my preservation