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The Haze discussion thread
- Thread starter @hempy
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SativaScience
Active member
suppose if we grow them using an 18 hour day ,
it possibly takes a while for the plants time clock to reset once the hours are decreased ,
so while we see some fast growth as a result of the increased hours ,
we suffer for it by seeing extended flowering.
That has been my experience. I believe 18 hours supercharge the sativas for growth which causes them to take longer to initiate flowering and stretch more with increased internode space. For the last 12 years i have used a 14/10 cycle for veg and 11/13 for flowering with very noticeable differences. Happy smoking all.
it possibly takes a while for the plants time clock to reset once the hours are decreased ,
so while we see some fast growth as a result of the increased hours ,
we suffer for it by seeing extended flowering.
That has been my experience. I believe 18 hours supercharge the sativas for growth which causes them to take longer to initiate flowering and stretch more with increased internode space. For the last 12 years i have used a 14/10 cycle for veg and 11/13 for flowering with very noticeable differences. Happy smoking all.
TheDarkStorm
Well-known member
Thats a really good question to ask Donald...about seeing some form of flowers for that long....no there isnt flowers for that long on the plant....you asking that helps me take another perspective....so for example with the Cambodian if you plant from seed say under 18 on 6 off for about 3-4 weeks till it getts to a decent sized plant.....then go straight to 12-12 or even straight from seed go 12-12...there will not be any pistols for about 12 weeks....it just does the rapid stretch thing...then once it puts the pistols on it wont flower properly untill you start dropping the light lower..otherwise it just keeps putting put new pistols and throwing out new shoots/branches...if you drop the light hours low enough you can get it near enough looking finished with actual flowers on the plant over 20 weeks....otherwise it will just go on and on....now they have worked out that far red will spead up the transition from veg to flower...but in the cambos case im not sure how it will work under led with far red as it already be's in 12-12 and needs more dark to flower properly....I will get it checked out and il let you guys know....im guessing outdoors as the seasons change were its mostly 12-12 all year round the angle of the sun must give off a lot more far red at some point to trigger flowering as well as a slight shift in other things such as little changes in light hours....
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
That picture was from the golden triangle in Thailand near the Mekong River so not sure how long that day light is there i could look it up but to be honest i am not interested.
Most of the Thai lines we grew were grown out doors before we started to grow them indoors sadly we do that because of the laws and to be honest if done right there are no real differences.
The Golden Buddha Thai sativa i had that was collected from with in Thailand by my friend took only 4 to 5 weeks to show early sex that plant still needed a long time to fully mature in or out doors.
I veg all sativas i use to flower in 12/12 now i run them at 11/13 that for me is the best i tried as low as 7/17 but you notice a loss of yield so its about what is best for the plants.
Nevil's Haze F1s that i grew took 9 weeks to show the first sign of sex some sativas take a long time to show sex that is the reality.
Most of the Thai lines we grew were grown out doors before we started to grow them indoors sadly we do that because of the laws and to be honest if done right there are no real differences.
The Golden Buddha Thai sativa i had that was collected from with in Thailand by my friend took only 4 to 5 weeks to show early sex that plant still needed a long time to fully mature in or out doors.
I veg all sativas i use to flower in 12/12 now i run them at 11/13 that for me is the best i tried as low as 7/17 but you notice a loss of yield so its about what is best for the plants.
Nevil's Haze F1s that i grew took 9 weeks to show the first sign of sex some sativas take a long time to show sex that is the reality.
hey darkie ,
yes i think they will veg still with 12 hours of daylight but decreasing the hours from there i guess makes the plants think the season is ending and time to get on with the job of flowering ,
i am most familiar with seasons similar to north eastern thailand , where the thai sticks originate ,
as the hours are the same as mine ,, 11/13 and 13/11 ,
and i think you make a good point about the angle of the sun and the spectrum ,
i think this was touched on a little by old mate that bred the blueberry , (dj short)
perhaps the lights directly overhead mimic the height of summer rather than the season ending ,
with reference to the position of the sun and the resulting spectrum as you pointed out ,
i think those variations coupled with the drying out of the soil , therefore less available nutrients ,
and the falling temperatures , all combine to encourage the plants to flower fully and finish better than our unnatural indoor setting ...
i couldn't find the reference to that photo ,
do you have one that says it was grown near the burma, laos, thai borders hempy??
its probably a similar latitude or not too much further from what i suggested even if it is where you say ,
the days will vary from 11/13 and 13/11 ..
yes i know your position with regards to indoor grown and outdoor grown sativas ,
however many of us don't hold the same position as you ,
perhaps its where you grew them outdoors , or some other variation that makes u think the way you do ,
what ever it is , i know you are not changing your mind now no matter how much evidence opposes your stance ...
that is how you are and i guess we have to accept your stubbornness as a part of your character, which saves me getting frustrated too ...
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
The rainy season in Thailand varies depending on the region and is influenced by the monsoon. In most of Thailand rainy season is experienced from May to October. The rainy season on the east coast of Southern Thailand (Koh Samui, Koh Phangan) normally starts later and can last until the beginning of December.
For most of Thailand, the most rainfall is accumulated in September and October making them the wettest months in Thailand. However, the east coast of Southern Thailand gets the heaviest rainfall in November.
Even if the rainy season in Thailand might look less attractive for visiting the country, the weather here is still very warm and the rain in most cases come as a short strong shower in the afternoon. It means that you still can get plenty of sunshine and avoid crowds of tourists. Bargain deals for various accommodations are normally offered during this time as well. Just keep your trip plan flexible and you will have a nice holiday during Thailand’s rainy season.
The Rainy Season in Thailand's Cities & Islands
As the weather in Thailand differs quite a lot, depending on the region and the time of the year, our chart of rainy weather ratings will help you to get an idea about the rainy season in Thailand's cities and islands.
So its not like Thailand gets smashed with rain for 6 months and clearly in many places there window for growing is a lot longer than 6 months.
For most of Thailand, the most rainfall is accumulated in September and October making them the wettest months in Thailand. However, the east coast of Southern Thailand gets the heaviest rainfall in November.
Even if the rainy season in Thailand might look less attractive for visiting the country, the weather here is still very warm and the rain in most cases come as a short strong shower in the afternoon. It means that you still can get plenty of sunshine and avoid crowds of tourists. Bargain deals for various accommodations are normally offered during this time as well. Just keep your trip plan flexible and you will have a nice holiday during Thailand’s rainy season.
The Rainy Season in Thailand's Cities & Islands
As the weather in Thailand differs quite a lot, depending on the region and the time of the year, our chart of rainy weather ratings will help you to get an idea about the rainy season in Thailand's cities and islands.
So its not like Thailand gets smashed with rain for 6 months and clearly in many places there window for growing is a lot longer than 6 months.
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
Some of the best cannabis ever grow came from California now southern Cali has a latitude of 34.9 so are you going to tell me you cant grow good Thai sativas out side of there latatude honestly ?.
I always thought Genetics determined the quality of the cannabis regardless if its grown indoors or out doors if the plant is happy and healthy and given the window it needs to fully mature then why should it not be as good were ever its grown.
If your not getting good results indoors then your grow skills need working on.
The indoor vs out door and my latitude is better than your latitude debate continues
I always thought Genetics determined the quality of the cannabis regardless if its grown indoors or out doors if the plant is happy and healthy and given the window it needs to fully mature then why should it not be as good were ever its grown.
If your not getting good results indoors then your grow skills need working on.
The indoor vs out door and my latitude is better than your latitude debate continues
yes , but flowering isn't happening all year, if you started before the monsoon ,
which is actually around a 10 week thing , not sure who said it was 6 months ,
definitely not me because as mentioned i live in the tropics , so I'm aware of the seasons ,
anyhow if you started before the wet season , you stand the chance of loosing your crop because some monsoons are quite ferocious,
so it makes sense to start after it and then u have a window of grow time until after the hours begin to increase again ,
you see the size of the plants in the pictures you have shared ,, not like they are 10 footers right??
mostly around 6 ft tall , due to starting after the monsoon and having a limited veg time ....
Some of the best cannabis ever grow came from California now southern Cali has a latitude of 34.9 so are you going to tell me you cant grow good Thai sativas out side of there latatude honestly ?.
I always thought Genetics determined the quality of the cannabis regardless if its grown indoors or out doors if the plant is happy and healthy and given the window it needs to fully mature then why should it not be as good were ever its grown.
If your not getting good results indoors then your grow skills need working on.
The indoor vs out door and my latitude is better than your latitude debate continues
wrong ,, some of the best cannabis came from elsewhere hempy ,
not sure where you get that from man ,, not from southern cali ,
not to say they didnt grow some great pot , I'm sure they did ,
but most folks rave about stuff from south of there , and from other tropical places ,
still to this day ,
we have had this discussion man ,
its why i said what i said a few posts ago ,
there will be no changing your mind ,
I'm well aware of that ,
so there is no point me wasting time trying to ,
you are too narrow minded and stubborn to get off the path you have always been on ,
i don't want to debate it because its a waste of time for me ....
I'm fine without proving anything to you , i know what i know and talking to you about it changes nothing at all ,
as i said its just frustrating for me ,
I've said all i need in the other discussions we have had about this subject ,
so the debate ends , you can have it with someone else if you want , I'm not part of it ...
Some of the best cannabis ever grow came from California now southern Cali has a latitude of 34.9 so are you going to tell me you cant grow good Thai sativas out side of there latatude honestly ?.
I always thought Genetics determined the quality of the cannabis regardless if its grown indoors or out doors if the plant is happy and healthy and given the window it needs to fully mature then why should it not be as good were ever its grown.
If your not getting good results indoors then your grow skills need working on.
The indoor vs out door and my latitude is better than your latitude debate continues
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Its not just changes in latitudes. Different Appalachia's grow completely different weed I have been told. Outdoors is way different that indoors. Humidity, Rain, Soil, elevation, aspect towards the sun and many other factors all of which affect the plants differently.
I started out with sativa indoor with hps. Under HPS they seemed to take 6-8 weeks to really start to bloom and even then I have taken NH, A5s1, Bandaid7, OTH all to 150 days bloom and they still weren't done and still trying to flower this after going to 11/13 and 10/14 towards the end. I have since switched to LED quantum boards at 3500k spectrum and they switch to bloom in about 3 weeks just like indica's. I think the overall more natural light spectrum is the key to indoor. I still veg sativa's at 18/6 and flower under 12/12. Last run I dropped to less hours of light after 12 weeks as I was strapped for time but not something I will shoot for. With HPS I had started a couple rounds at 12/12 and they just stretch like crazy. I tried 11/13 too but it didn't have much effect. My hypothesis is that the difference in the lights when running sats indoors is that these new LEDs can initiate flowering more rapidly than HPS (Hortilux Super). Of course its just a hypotheses and I hope to explore it more even thinking of trying vertical HPS as I feel vert hps also affects the plants differently and that is how I have normally been running indica's and other hybrids up until sativa.
Cheers Everyone! I hate trimming.
edit: I will add that anyone running indoor and wanting to replicate outdoor time cycles can manually adjust their light timer daily to see if there is a difference this way as well. I read along time ago of people running like that indoor even with indica's. Sounds like a PITA but could possibly provide different results. I still believe it is more about spectrum. I am not impressed so far with HPS and sativa.
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
I am not wrong Donald Haze was created in California using lines/ strains from other places and they created something very special some of the strongest cannabis so how am i wrong.
I have grow in and out i know the advantages and disadvantages of each has what you try to do as a grower in or out is to grow the plant healthy and to its full potential and dont try and tell me out doors is better as that would be determined on factors well out of a growers control as no season or grow out doors is with out its problems.
that part about full potential is quite accurate ,
your dead right ,
but the only way somethings can reach their full potential , is being where they naturally belong ,
growing where they have adapted too ,
this is the truth and i think you know it ,
how are the bananas , pineapples and mangoes from your backyard for instance ?
how about the durian ??
likely not quite the same as mine I'm betting ...
because they do best where they are acclimatized too , as with many things ...
as far as where those thai sticks come from ,
the seasons are very predictable , its almost the same every year ,
its not like the weather you are used to , or see where you live ,
the wet season finishes the same time every year ,
and its hot and dry until the cannabis is harvested,
i know because i have seen it , and i live in a similar climate,
we have a place down the road that mimics the isaan climate almost exactly ,
its so predictable its almost boring ... lol ...
your dead right ,
but the only way somethings can reach their full potential , is being where they naturally belong ,
growing where they have adapted too ,
this is the truth and i think you know it ,
how are the bananas , pineapples and mangoes from your backyard for instance ?
how about the durian ??
likely not quite the same as mine I'm betting ...
because they do best where they are acclimatized too , as with many things ...
as far as where those thai sticks come from ,
the seasons are very predictable , its almost the same every year ,
its not like the weather you are used to , or see where you live ,
the wet season finishes the same time every year ,
and its hot and dry until the cannabis is harvested,
i know because i have seen it , and i live in a similar climate,
we have a place down the road that mimics the isaan climate almost exactly ,
its so predictable its almost boring ... lol ...
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
Funny you should ask about my banana trees it took some time to eradicate them and the bamboo here after we bought the place as for mango's my trees only a year old my mate up the road got a tone off his last summer.
Its funny no matter what plant i grow it just wont met the standard of the Donald lol and yet if some one else grew a Thai sativa even in Alaska indoors he get high praise from the Donald i think all of this is more personal Donald you need to build a bridge and get over it mate honest for the good of every one 2 more pages of complete bull shit.
Science tells us
Phenology is generally constrained by what are known as abiotic factors (day length, temperature, moisture), and potentially by biotic factors (pollinators, seed dispersers); thus natural selection drives plant species to flower at certain times of the year.
Abiotic component
In biology and ecology, abiotic components or abiotic factors are non-living chemical and physical parts of the environment that affect living organisms and the functioning of ecosystems. Abiotic factors and the phenomena associated with them underpin biology as a whole.
Its funny no matter what plant i grow it just wont met the standard of the Donald lol and yet if some one else grew a Thai sativa even in Alaska indoors he get high praise from the Donald i think all of this is more personal Donald you need to build a bridge and get over it mate honest for the good of every one 2 more pages of complete bull shit.
Science tells us
Phenology is generally constrained by what are known as abiotic factors (day length, temperature, moisture), and potentially by biotic factors (pollinators, seed dispersers); thus natural selection drives plant species to flower at certain times of the year.
Abiotic component
In biology and ecology, abiotic components or abiotic factors are non-living chemical and physical parts of the environment that affect living organisms and the functioning of ecosystems. Abiotic factors and the phenomena associated with them underpin biology as a whole.
i never said there was anything wrong with anything you grow ,
just didn't agree with you saying growing indoors and outdoors is the same ,
you make assumptions and misread what i write ,
I've even defended your indoor thai recently from folks who said it was brown so it was shit ,
I'm sure your thai is great , as i like thai and you seem to be a very comptetant grower ,
so I'm sure you are getting as good as you can with the tools you have on hand...
but with you saying its all about genetics so you can grow things anywhere you want and get the same thing ,
this is not correct ,,
if it was , us folks up here wouldn't bother growing anything in the tropics to send to you guys in the southern cities ,
because you could grow it closer and not have to worry about supporting our produce or us ,
but that's not how it works is it ??
I'm sure as i conversed with darkie about ,
that there are ways to tweak things in order to get the maximum from indoor sativa crops ,
lt added his experiences , this is friendly conversation and how it works ,
its ok to try and do better ,,
if we share information , experiences etc ,, we can all make improvements ,
even you ... unless you already know it all and don't think there are any improvements to be made ??
Greatdalas
Well-known member
Always if have a good grow better outdoors, more tasty, more strong odor, more productive and better efect
TheDarkStorm
Well-known member
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