the Hand Watering coco thread

[luv2ski]

Thanks for the reply giaus. i def need some more knowledge on the coco, but, learning as i go...

but this EC thing has me a little twisted. i am hoping that was the correct EC level at 0.6. i have the hanna 96034 little tester. so it reads 06 at the tap and with this tester i am suppose to multiple that X 100. so i am assuming, that giving me a number of 600, that my EC is 0.6. i hope i am doing that right and not just totally retarded, but.....

so get a filter for my tap huh? ya, water is real hard here. and ph is always 7.8-8. i use a lot of ph down....

so, thanks again for the reply. ill get some pics up here soon.

 

[GIS]

Have you considered using RO water? I have very bad water here that comes out of the tap at over 500 ppm, and it makes a huge difference. Every time I've tried to use tap water I end up burning them, just thought I'd throw this out there. I'm a huge fan of coco, and hand watering. I think it's a great way to grow for sure.

 

[LAboutz]

I all ,

awesome thread btw , im at page 40 now i've learn alot !

just have a question , i'm in quebec province far away ... i dont have municipal water, i take my water in a Water well , and i have too much of iron in my water !,

do you think i will have a lock up or something ?

im using canna coco , whit canna A+B coco nutes , rhyzo , and zym .
they are 2 or 3 weeks old !

txs alot ppl !

LAbz

 

[Highlighter]

LAboutz, do you have a meter to read your well water?

I am on well water myself and it is hard water, but only reads in the low 30's ppm.
I will be installing an RO system in the future, but for now I'm using my tap.
Every 3rd day I feed PH adjusted water, and on occasion I'll use distilled for that, but I'm going thru 6 gallons a day, so can't afford a steady diet of distilled.

As a coco newbie, I had a tough time conditioning the coco. took about 4-6 wks to where it was rinsed thru enough to get decent readings.
I've used both Canna & Botanicare coco's and both have had good amounts of salts in them, drove me nuts til it stabilized.

Everything's going very smoothly now.

 

[LAboutz]

i have an ppm tester and read 240 ppm ,

but i have made an analyse of the water and they said too much iron ,

i just lost my job week ago , whit a new child and a new housse, i dont have money to spend on my growroom... ,

Ro water seem the best whit cal&mag

i buy kiriri 18litre for 3$ at the moment .. but pain in the ass

i will try just one of them whit my tap hard iron water

 

[bonecarver_OG]

laboutz- i think your truouble can be in the ph ?! specailly if you are adding rhizo AND cannzyme, nutes, and a water with bad mineral ballance.

you can not expect to get perfect results, but maybe it will be ok. try to get hold of a better water. even collecting RAINwater to mix with the tap water is a good idea..

only if feed a very pure water, plants can take heavy nutrient loads better.

peace

 

[LAboutz]

i think i will continu to buy water and buy a Reverse osmose filter , its gonna be good for me ? i saw some for 200 $

 

[luv2ski]

hello again. i have some pics here i am posting. lights got turned to 12/12 on the 5th of january. no doubt i feel they should be WAY further along than this. you can see the burn on the tips/edges, and lots of droopyness and curling of leaves going on! the more i am studying this thread and other info, it seems like this is def a nute burn.

but back to the EC. so if my tap water is 0.6 EC, my ppm is 420ppm? (good number at least!) i think this is way more in line than my previous post. learn something new every hour!

here's the thing, i only have 2 plants going in coco as i am learning this and dont want to kill a lot the first go around. i fed one last night and not the other. so today when i watered them with no nutes, my EC in on one the plant i fed was 0.6 (tap water) and my runoff was 1.1. this is telling me i have way too much nutes in my coco, correct? and the other plant i did not feed last night, has the exact same EC in the run off, 0.6. so that's telling me the plant is not taking any nutes, correct?

i feel like a dumb ass, but i am really trying to absorb all this information!

from what i have read, and comments made on my posts (which i am so thankful everyone!) it seems like i need to use some RO water and start with a lower EC. any recommendations on what is a good EC to start? seems like the purer the better, correct? am i just buying some bottled water? i dont need a ton right now since i only have 2 in coco so i can do this.

the thing that gets me is the nute line i am using states it automatically adjusts the EC so you can use this nute line with tap water. i did put a recommended dose into about 4 L of water just to see what the EC would be and it was 1.9, so it seems that the nute line claim to automatically adjust the EC is valid. do i just have a major buildup of salts due to hard water or too big of pots?

so many questions! i am sorry. back to the reading!

peace all! and thanks!

 

[edwin79]

hi luv,

my tap has quite the same ec & ph as yours. u mentioned that u have to use a lot of ph(-), which raises the ec as well.

in addition u give full strenght nute to some sick plants -> they cant use it.

just watching the symptoms id say u got defiencies, combined with full nute that would lead to ph-prob.

i did a ph test of my substrate. i took 4 parts distilled water, 1 part coco form about 5 cm down, combined, shook, and let sit for 5 mins. then shook again and tested ph and have a 5.7. calibrated my tester prior to this test and i am dead on.

i dont think u did the test right. take several samples - not just from one point. a bit from bottom, some in between. 3 parts distilled water, 2 of coco and let it sit for an hour.

5.7 is already quite low during flower time - try 6.2. Phos and Mg get locked from approx 5.8 and lower, id say ur ph is lower than 5.7. Mg and P def would - imho - fit ur symptoms.

My recommendation (but wait for another opinion):

- if u can mix your tab 50:50 with dist.
- check ur roots. if they r well established keep em in 25, if not reduce the volume. that will help u keeping a good climate in ur coco.
- set up a lot of water and adjust the ph to 6.2 (wait 1-2 days so the ph can stabilise - regulate, check, wait... check, regulate, wait...)
- flush ur pots till ~5 liters/pot of drain, wait for 15 minutes and flush again with 1 liter of drain. check the ph of the 2nd drain. keep going till the drain reaches 6.2.
- now setup a some water with nutes, but use only half of what ur were told to (i use canna coco-ab, so this might be a mistake - ask for another opinion), if u have add a root stim, regulate ph, wait..., check, reulate, wait...
- now ur plantz should have had 1-2 days in pure tap-water
- its time to give some nutes, use ur adjusted stuff with some drain. check the ph & keep going till u reached 6.2

U shouldnt expect too much from theese plantz, my experience told me that plantz with probs in the first three weeks of flowering yield really bad. but coco can be a little tricky. keep ur ec low and learn to keep the ph right - thats first step. then u can start raising the nutes and think about high yielding.

greets and luck,
eddie

 

[luv2ski]

thanks eddie.

i assumed from the beginning i wasnt gonna get too much, if anything off of this, hence the small number. it is mainly to educate myself, and i appreciate the info.

i am going to go ahead and put one back into the 6 L and keep 1 in the 25, just to see what happens.

and as for my coco ph, ill go ahead and do another test when i transplant back, but i did measure my runoff today and it was at a 6.1, but i have read that runoff is not an accurate reading. any feedback on that?


thanks!

 

[LAboutz]

this is what a read too , bone said that i think

 

[luv2ski]

so i redid the coco ph test. i got a 6.0. i am doing it again this morning just to make sure and i am going to calibrate my ph tester, again, before taking another read.

eddie, one thing i forgot to mention was that 3 days before i gave that one plant a full feeding, as i mentioned, i basically did the flush you have said to do. only difference is i used only tap water, AND i didnt wait any amount of time when regulating my ph. the day after the flush gave a 25% feeding, (so no wait time again) and then the next day a 50% feeding. there had been no change what so ever in either plant a couple days after that. but i didnt wait that 2 days after the flush, so i'll redo the process with dist water and do my waiting (that patience thing again! always been a little difficult for me!!!)

i figured it out rather quickly that i wasnt doing something right after the 1st month due to my results. then i thought i had it right, then this, so, like i said edumacatin meself!!! (i am one of those people who cant learn much unless i have my hands in it. i am not really an an abstract thinker!)

as for the transplant, roots where not where they should have been after 12 days, especially after reading these threads and reading/seeing other peoples results. so i went ahead with one, and we'll see for fun.

i think one of the problems was i was over watering in those 25L pots. there is so much conflicting knowledge on this coco out there that it gets a little confusing. the guy i am communicating with at cellmax has told me it does not matter in any way what the ph of the water you are putting in is. WHAT!?!? he says it only matters what the substrate ph is. so that means i can put in ph 8 water?! i disagree, but this is a guy who has worked years for a nute company, so.....


anyway, again i am very grateful for all the input and please keep it coming and i'll keep reading.

 

[MaynardG_Krebs]

s



the guy i am communicating with at cellmax has told me it does not matter in any way what the ph of the water you are putting in is. WHAT!?!? he says it only matters what the substrate ph is. so that means i can put in ph 8 water?! i disagree, but this is a guy who has worked years for a nute company, so.....

I've read thru your posts and I did not see any mention of your ppm level of your nutrient solution. Pictures would be very helpful as well. I totally agree with YOU in doubting your reps advice.. its just wrong. It may be ok for growing tomatoes or green beans, but not what we grow. The reason I'm saying pictures would be a great help is during the latter weeks of flowering, it's not unusual to see what appears to be nute burn, but it's actually just the pan leaves losing their vitality and drying out. When I'm in full flower mode, I usually run about 1200-1300 ppm on my nutes and that's putting the plants right at the edge of what they can take. I run House and Garden nutes and feed them every day. Growing in coco is way to easy to make it complicated. Hang in there, you'll get it sorted..

mgk

 

[gaiusmarius]

what im asking myself is if this nutrient you are using is coco specific or not? the high water ec doesn't have to mean it wont work. just dont run full strength nutrients with that kind of water.

basically if your coco ph is around 6.0 and the nutrients are dialed in to coco you should get any plant to start looking better quite fast. the thing to remember is that coco has no nutrients in it, so a mature plant needs food all the time. so even after a flush you should go right back to nutrients the next day. when you measure ec of the water you are giving the plants how much is it?

also remember the leaves that are already burnt will not really get better, you can only judge how your treatment is effecting the plant by looking at the new growth on the plant.

anyway best of luck, in the end you might just have to go and get some canna coco A+B lol.

peace

 

[luv2ski]

Hey maynard. thanks for the input (and encouragement!). i just got an EC tester the other day b/c the nutes i am using, which are coco specific, claims that the EC level is automatically adjusted to tap water, so i thought i wouldnt need one. but, i def did need and now have an EC tester. at the recommended dosage of the nute i should be reading an EC of 2.0. i put a recommended dose in some tap water the other night just to see what the EC would be and it was a 1.9. i have an idea that the burn was attributed to the PK boost i used, but i didnt use a full dose. but, it could still be the issue. probably got over zealous and went a little too early with that boost. pics are a few pots back too....

i agree with the idea that the cellmax rep is completely wrong and that i dont have to worry about my nutes ph going in.

and what about my local grow shop reps theory that my pots are too big and when the roots went to grow they would be burned due to too much coco, therefore too much water in the pot, therefore too much nute for the plant? he is a canna coco grower so...
i would love some feedback on that. i read how big of pots that BC is using and it makes me question this theory. i firmly believe that the more root space you have, the bigger and better the plant. but again, i am a dirt farmer.

gaius, yes, coco specific nutes, was adding the root stim earlier, and also adding enzymes starting about a month ago. i did another Ph test of the substrate this mornig and i got a 6.0 again. i have always Phed my water at a 5.8 through the veg stage and into my flower stage. the research i have done says this is the optimal level for coco, but then i get threads stating that i need to be at 6.2??? i thought the optimal ph for buffered coco was 5.5-6.0???

after more research i think i may have been watering too much in these 25L pots. i didnt add any perlite, or pebbles at the bottom, etc,. its a fine coco substrate, so....

again, thanks everyone for the input.

patience...i keep telling myself that! its only been 2 months!

and gaius, i am going to canna after this fo sho!!! my mentor of 5 years back in the states was a dirt farmer for 25 years in no cal and just switched to coco last september. he was having some problems at first and when i started having these problems and i talked with him and his awer was "...get canna a+b...." he also said he is never going back to soil. seems to be the common answer!

 

[MaynardG_Krebs]

Hey maynard. thanks for the input (and encouragement!). i just got an EC tester the other day b/c the nutes i am using, which are coco specific, claims that the EC level is automatically adjusted to tap water, so i thought i wouldnt need one. but, i def did need and now have an EC tester. at the recommended dosage of the nute i should be reading an EC of 2.0. i put a recommended dose in some tap water the other night just to see what the EC would be and it was a 1.9. i have an idea that the burn was attributed to the PK boost i used, but i didnt use a full dose. but, it could still be the issue. probably got over zealous and went a little too early with that boost. pics are a few pots back too....

i agree with the idea that the cellmax rep is completely wrong and that i dont have to worry about my nutes ph going in.

and what about my local grow shop reps theory that my pots are too big and when the roots went to grow they would be burned due to too much coco, therefore too much water in the pot, therefore too much nute for the plant? he is a canna coco grower so...
i would love some feedback on that. i read how big of pots that BC is using and it makes me question this theory. i firmly believe that the more root space you have, the bigger and better the plant. but again, i am a dirt farmer.

gaius, yes, coco specific nutes, was adding the root stim earlier, and also adding enzymes starting about a month ago. i did another Ph test of the substrate this mornig and i got a 6.0 again. i have always Phed my water at a 5.8 through the veg stage and into my flower stage. the research i have done says this is the optimal level for coco, but then i get threads stating that i need to be at 6.2??? i thought the optimal ph for buffered coco was 5.5-6.0???

after more research i think i may have been watering too much in these 25L pots. i didnt add any perlite, or pebbles at the bottom, etc,. its a fine coco substrate, so....

again, thanks everyone for the input.

patience...i keep telling myself that! its only been 2 months!

and gaius, i am going to canna after this fo sho!!! my mentor of 5 years back in the states was a dirt farmer for 25 years in no cal and just switched to coco last september. he was having some problems at first and when i started having these problems and i talked with him and his awer was "...get canna a+b...." he also said he is never going back to soil. seems to be the common answer!

If your nutrients are specific to coco, I would think a PK addition would not be necessary. Regarding pot size.. I seriously doubt that this is your problem. I run 3 gallon pots which are I believe about 12 liters, but I have to keep my plants smaller because of my space restrictions. Regarding advice from a store employee is pretty unreliable. I'm not saying all of them don't know what they're talking about, just that a lot of bad advice gets dolled out by these people just repeating bad advice they've received from various sources. Regarding pH, first of all, I never pay any attention to the pH of the medium, but that of the nutrient solution I'm feeding. I run mine a little on the high side as I've found that they tend to drop in pH as they sit in the reservoir. As the res depletes in supply, the pH has dropped down to the bottom of the range and it seems to work for me. (not saying that's the only way to do it by any means). I make sure to thoroughly rinse my coco (even tho they say it's not necessary) checking the ppm level of the run off from the coco as I continue my rinsing process. When my runoff ppm is about the same as my tap water, I consider most of the salts and residue to be gone from the medium. My personal assessment of your situation is to try to rescue your current efforts and learn all you can for your next run. Growing in coco is too easy to have problems and I think you're in the right spot for finding your answers. I'm a firm believer in the kiss method.. keep it simple.. don't over complicate it.

mgk

 

[bonecarver_OG]

using pk boost too early is not good for all strains some handle it better than others, looking at the flowering stage of your plants, id say u can wait pk one or two weeks more, depending on how fast they develop.

the plants dont need pk 13-14 untill things get going fast

peace!

 

[luv2ski]

thanks for all the input all. i have learned a lot from this thread.

 

[fly poster]

if u water with non ph adjusted water once in coco, it doesnt need to change the ph of the coco much at all.

most coco is buffered to ph around 6.0

avoid using much tapwater, since it can give a need of too much ph-down.

peace mate! and good luck!

Thanks bone carver,
I have taken to using tap water, but I am evaporating the chorine off first.

Just found out I should be keeping my nutes in the dark, I was keeping them mixed in water in my tent to match temperature.... doh! I have a few growers I know personally... thank f*ck!

I have one plant that is smaller than the rest, and struggling, fellow noobs take note! I am watering and feeding this one less, not more! More is bad for smaller plants, give it a chance. And I won't be cloning from this one.

gonna upload some photo's soon.

Breed: Critical.

p.s; Thank you all.

 

[Lostclusters]

This thread was the first one I read back when I started growing in coco. I found the info here to be very useful. I thought I would share a technique I found to correct ph easier than anything else I have read about. It works best if you are using smart pots (fibrous material much like felt but much heavier) or something similar. But it should work well with any pot with vent hole on the bottom and/or sides.

So you have a plant with a high ph and you want to ph it down, put the pot in a larger water tight container. For reference I use 3 gallon smart pots for my plants. Pour into the water tight container one half gallon of water with ph of 4.5. Lean the water tight container so that the water goes half way up your pot, and allow the 4.5 ph'd water to absorb (approximately 10-15 seconds). Move your pot to other side of the water tight container and repeat. Rotate your pot twice and repeat this until all the sides
of your pot have absorbed it's share of water at 4.5 ph. Remove the pot from the water tight container and set it somewhere it can drain. I put mine in the kitchen sink suspended by wood slats so that the bottom of the pot is level with the top of the sink. That way I can get a large bowl underneath the pot to collect run off. Once the pot is suspended pour in any remained water from the water tight container in the pot, at the point where the center stem of your plant enters the coco. Pour in an additional one half gallon of 4.5 ph'd water starting at that center point trying to evenly distribute this addition water across the top of the pot. I just recently transplanted to these bigger 3 gallon pots from smaller ones, so I concentrate this half gallon in the area where the smaller pot coco would be. Next pour in two more half gallons ph'd at 5.5, one at a time, trying to evenly distribute the water. I usually feed after this, one half gallon. I take two ph readings. Once after most of the water has drained and the pot is just dripping slightly when there is barely enough water to collect to read. And again after feeding, after it has mostly drained as before. If you use metric measurements convert to the nearest most convenient equivalents.

I do this once a week to the plants I am having ph trouble with. I think you will find it easer to correct ph this way. Feedback is welcome.