the Hand Watering coco thread

[Mr. Bongjangles]

Hey there fellow coco growers...I posted this in the "H3ad goes coco" thread but haven't seen a response yet so I copied it here. It goes as follows:

Ok ladies and gentlemen, I have a small issue I need help with. The plants in question are all MVTF from clone. They are all in coco/perlite and hand watered until a little runs off. They are all on full strength 6/9 and usually pH'd to 5.8. I made a slight mistake by getting them too close to the light (400w MH) as you will see in the pics (leaf edges folding up like a taco) but have lowered them back down. My issue appears to be ph. I have been feeding all cuts at 5.8pH and the majority of the plants look awesome except these MVTF's. All NEW growth appears to be twisting. I have 3 cuts and 1 I changed pH to 5.6, another I kept at 5.8 and the last one I changed to 6.0 to see if there is any difference. Any thoughts?

**EDIT**For kicks I tested runoff - 5.6pH 830ppm (from plant fed with 5.8pH) Also, I transplanted and the roots were circling the 1 gal pot and bright white so there is no root rot or fungus.

Heres my specifics:
Mix of RO & Tap to appx 100ppm before adding nutes
After 6ml/gal Micro, 9ml/gal Bloom and a few drops/gal super thrive, pH'd to 5.8 with a total ppm of appx 830. I am going to transplant from 1 gallon pots to 4 gallon pots tonight and they will be ready for flipping and will finish in the 4 gallon pots. Here are the pics:

Look pretty happy to me, little curl from the heat you mentioned, but looking good otherwise. Sounds like your PH isn't swinging too much, though I'd like it to swing in the other direction, up rather than down.

If I had to take a guess, I'd point my finger at the superthrive.

Did a little googling on "new growth twisting" and while the first result was about dreadlocks (lol,) the second result is a thread from another cannabis site, and sure enough, this individual was using superthrive as well. No definitive answer there, but I feel better about my suspicions at least

( http://www.marijuanagrowing.eu/help-t18020.html )

Given that you're using a "trusted" nutrient, and watching the pH closely, I would go ahead and eliminate the superthrive for that plant, and see if the issue doesn't resolve.

Good luck!

 

[Harinama]

I just started on coir for this grow. I've been running about 60/40 perlite/coir. I had many issues early on with salt in the coir, i used what was probably low quality untreated coir. After repeated attempts to flush, i started watering with clearex, and it's all good now.

I've started using a blumat auto-watering system, which drips ferts slowly into the middle of the pot, dialed in to whatever the plant needs (ie. small plants get less watering, larger more thirsty ones get more). After 2 weeks, it's fantastic! I was concerned about water saturation throughout the pot, but coir is incredible and wicks it all the way out from the one drip spot near the plantstem. Since i am completely organic, i had some issues with my nutes clogging the blumat lines. I now mix then filter my nutes, and all is good now!

I have stopped overwatering with runoff. I just run clearex through often and don't worry about salts much. I recently switched to a new brand of coir, and it is MUCH better (smelled fresh and sweet while i was sparging), and have noticed none of the salt-related issues i saw with the previous coir. And at $40 for 4.8 cufeet(effective), it is quite a deal. I think it is "down to earth" from eugene. With this i am slightly changing to 33/66(1-2) perlite/coir for more water retaining qualities.

Finally, i spent so much time trying to work out the ph stuff, causing all kinds of problems. Now i don't ph at all, and just let things grow, and all is good.

3.5g hempy pot with 1" perlite in bottom below hole
66/33 coir/perlite mix
never check ph, or ppm
blumat drip system
1kw digital 3k mh
completely organic
technaflora grow/bloom ferts, humic/fulvic acid + seaweed, gonats and neem oil for bugs

 

[bonecarver_OG]

yup salty coco is a hustle not even worth getting into.

for example a few months back i picked up a few more economical compressed coco blocks, and first of all i think it seems like the coco is TOO fresh, and on the other hand the salt levels were over 2.0 EC after a week or two of normal use. i had to flush about 150 liters of low EC water thru them to get it down to an acceptable level.

not worth it.

just pick up a sack of canna coco and you wont fail. its worth the extra spent bucks

peace

 

[Cruzin']

Great to see the dream is alive and well.
Coco rules.

 

[PsychoHipE]

6 Clones in Coco w/ Canna Nutes

6 Clones in Coco w/ Canna Nutes

Hello all! I have had an account and lurked here for a while, but only recently started growing again after a couple of failed attempts (mites, heat, too big) last summer when I first procured a medical card here in CO.

I am very intrigued by the results many are posting when using coco coir. The growth rate of hydro with the ease/simplicity of hand watering? It seems too good to be true...and yet...

I got these clones from a couple of dudes on craigslist. They were ridiculously skimpy/stressed and barely rooted, but rather than screw around with finding another source (I had the pots and light at home ready to go), I decided to try and nurture these little ladies to a healthy state. Honestly I've seen as bad or worse at the dispensaries, and I don't know anyone personally who's growing, so take what you can get I suppose...

The first pic is the six clones (which were [barely] rooted in rockwool) under a fluoro right after transplanting into coco. The second pic is just a few minutes ago (6.5 days later). Clockwise from top left: Island Sweet Skunk, OG Kush, Sour Diesel, Headband, Chemdawg, and Lemon Skunk.

Oh! I'm using Botanicare coco. I got one of the 15 kilo blocks and hydrated/fluffed it, loaded into the 2 gallon pots, flushed (each pot) with like 7 - 8 gallons tap water followed by 2 - 3 gallons Brita filtered water, then 1 gallon of Canna A + B at a rate of 2 mL/liter ("half" strength). Then I added the clones and began watering once daily to 15 - 25% runoff with a solution of 1 tsp/gallon (which is ~1.32 mL/liter). I'm running a 400 watt metal halide vertical/bare bulb style (thus the fan in the center pointed upward).

They seem to be liking it! (With the exception of the OG Kush and to a somewhat lesser extent, the Sour D.) I added a little bit of Old Age Organics Kelp at the rate of 1/4 tsp gallon for a couple of the waterings and I was using a few drops (4 - 5) of SuperThrive per gallon, till I read the stuff above and noticed my plants seemed to be behaving similarly.

Any thoughts? I'm without an EC/PPM meter at the moment, but have my eye on this Hanna on Amazon for $89 once I get the cash. I do have some pH paper. It's wide range, so not the most precise, but seems to indicate that my unfiltered tap water is ~7.5, the Brita filtered stuff is about 6.5 - 7, and after the Canna nutes it looks like right around 6 (again: wide range paper, so hard to tell precisely). This seems to be in line with other's experiences with the tap water around here, at least...

I'm enjoying this a lot! It's very low-maintenance, but involved enough that you can mess with it every day. lol

Hooray for coco coir!

 

[slowandeasy]

I hope you can get those looking better! Your Craigslist boys are not very good growers. Good luck.

 

[PsychoHipE]

Yeah, no doubt. Funny thing is, I went with craigslist over the dispensaries because MOST of the stuff I've seen at dispensaries has been crap (about like these looked), whereas I had great experiences with CL last summer. Luck of the draw I guess. Hopefully I'll eventually meet a grower or two with some good stock...

 

[brobrobro]

instead of making a new thread, i thought i'd ask here instead.


i water with about 20% runoff. im using a big needle to extract the water out of the runoff trays,

is it ok to have 1-2mm worth of water still in there? will it be bad for the plants?

thanks

 

[dman16]

if the water will evaporate within 24 hrs IMO its fine…..im sure 1-2 mm would evap just fine.

 

[brobrobro]

if the water will evaporate within 24 hrs IMO its fine…..im sure 1-2 mm would evap just fine.

yea its usually totally dry within 6 hours

so its fine then? thats good, thanks mate

 

[bonecarver_OG]

brobrobro - you can use a carwash spoghe to wipe up the water with. one of thsoe sponges hold about a 1/4 gallon in one go.

during veg you can let the plants suck up the water on the tray every now and then, but have in mind the fact the water has nutes and salts in it and once it evaporates, it will turn into salt, and watering by watering the EC of the water on the tray gets higher and higher. its recomendable to flush regularly using methods like that. specially before flowering, when higher salt levels really affect the production.

peace

 

[brobrobro]

ok thanks guys, i've elevated the pots so they sit a couple inches ontop of the runoff trays so they are never sitting in the runoff water, and whatever runoff there is i suck it up with a big syringe.


but i have another dilemma, after reading the 'over watering in coco' thread its got me worried...




i have 5-6" plants in 5 gal pots using 90/10 coco/vermiculit

i started the plants in 8oz cups

im currently watering everyday with about 500ml of water each which gives me 10-30% runoff

they look ok, but after reading about the whole "its very easy to over water if the plants haven't spread the roots well throughout the pot- ie small plants in a big pot" so this has got me worried


maybe water every second day?

any help?



thanks

 

[puff adder]

When I pot up from 4" or 6" pots into the big final pots, I initially saturate the entire pot, but then for a week or 2, I water Just the center area with a turkey baster. Until roots have filled the pot, the rest of the coco will stay wet.

By just watering the area where the small pot was, this allows the rest of the coco to slowly dry out, which causes the roots to shoot out and hunt for water.

After a week or 2 of this, the pots begin to dry out as a whole, and then I water the entire pot. This kind of "phases in" the new transplant.

How you water the new transplants determines how, and what kind of roots the plant forms.
In my garden, plants that were watered how I describe grew big strong roots and stems. When I constantly watered the entire pots from the get-go, the roots and stems never got really big, and when I did my post harvest "rootopsy" it showed that the roots never completely filled the pot.

 

[brobrobro]

oh ok, thats understandable.

so using your method, should i still water every day?


thanks for the reply to mate.

 

[puff adder]

I wait until the center spots show drying. The rest of the coco will still be wet. My pots end up with little dry 4" or 6" square center spots, which I water with a couple shots from a turkey baster, just wetting the dry spots.

I let my starts get a little rootbound, so when I pot up, they were needing daily waterings in their 4" or 6" pots.

Once potted up, they'll need the small center waterings every day or so, but after a week the water will be more evenly used by the plant as the roots shoot out and drink.

You will see when it is time to water more heavily. At this stage, I think it is OK to allow things to dry out, even close to bone dry as it promotes root growth.

 

[Moppel]

Hello Bonecarver and other cocogrowers, i'm thinking about switching from soil to coco and thought i would ask some tips from the experts. What kind of potsize do you advice for a sog setup with 16 plants under a 600 watt (40 inch x 40 inch), 8-12 days veg. using canna coco and canna nutes, handwatered (daily) offcourse , as that is where this thread is about.

thanks

 

[MaynardG_Krebs]

At this stage, I think it is OK to allow things to dry out, even close to bone dry as it promotes root growth.

I'm not real comfortable with the 'bone dry' thing in coco. Bone dry, in my mind anyway, equals 'killing roots'. You have to keep things hydrated or they start to dry and become unable to uptake any nutrients until they've healed. This is not good.. If you're talking about letting the surface go 'bone dry', that's another thing..

mgk

 

[puff adder]

Of course not BONE dry, but when I pot up from a 4" pot into a 3 gallon pot, until the roots fill the pot up, only the center 4" area dries, and that's all I water. The rest of the pot stays wet for a week or longer. I won't give a full saturation watering until the whole pot begins to dry. At this stage I allow the pots to dry out more than during normal growth. The pots never get 100% dry, but they do get very light.

This seems to make roots faster than dropping the plant into a big pot and watering the whole thing every time, roots don't seem to shoot out as quickly.

Once the pot begins to dry as a whole, I begin to water "normally", where I find the watering schedule that keeps the coco moist. This ends up being every 2 days at first, and as the plants get bigger, every day. When they are cranking, once a day sometimes is not enough. I shoot for in between soaked weight and bone dry weight.

Now on mature plants, if allowed to go bone dry, I have had what looks like nitrogen toxicity happen (the claw) overnight, so I keep things moist, but i have let young plants dry out and be just fine. Recently I let some young stragglers die/dry out, and they went many days bone dry before showing any signs of not being happy.

 

[MaynardG_Krebs]

Of course not BONE dry, but when I pot up from a 4" pot into a 3 gallon pot, until the roots fill the pot up, only the center 4" area dries, and that's all I water. The rest of the pot stays wet for a week or longer. I won't give a full saturation watering until the whole pot begins to dry. At this stage I allow the pots to dry out more than during normal growth. The pots never get 100% dry, but they do get very light.

This seems to make roots faster than dropping the plant into a big pot and watering the whole thing every time, roots don't seem to shoot out as quickly.

Once the pot begins to dry as a whole, I begin to water "normally", where I find the watering schedule that keeps the coco moist. This ends up being every 2 days at first, and as the plants get bigger, every day. When they are cranking, once a day sometimes is not enough. I shoot for in between soaked weight and bone dry weight.

Now on mature plants, if allowed to go bone dry, I have had what looks like nitrogen toxicity happen (the claw) overnight, so I keep things moist, but i have let young plants dry out and be just fine. Recently I let some young stragglers die/dry out, and they went many days bone dry before showing any signs of not being happy.

We're on the same page then.. I just wanted to clarify that 'bone dry' thing for the beginners (I find the term 'newb' kinda degrading). I do the same.. for the first week or so, I feed only at the 'transplant' spot.. then over the next couple weeks, I make sure both the center and the sides get fed. I love growin in coco, even though I've yet to finish a plant in it.. I'm about 4 weeks away with a Pineapple Express and a Swiss Cheese. They're both looking tight and right..

mgk

 

[puff adder]

I like coco as well. I've used coco for years, even did a big outdoor grow with it. My only gripe is fungus gnats love the stuff. Mosquito dunks live in my resevoir, which keeps them in check, and I'm going to try some DE this next round.

In my new room, I will get to see how coco compares to dirt. I've got a special strain (Acme 12) that my buddy's been running for a while now and does very well with, he's in dirt. I'm running a 1k light's worth of this strain to see how it does compared to his thang in dirt. He's getting well over 1lb with a 600.

When I first started using coco, a friend told me to "treat it like dirt, water when the pots get light". I let the pots get basically totoally dry each time before watering. Nute PPM's never got over 750, no probs and it all went well.

These days I keep the coco a bit moist all the time in my one room (feed to waste in catch trays, no runoff).

I think the plants adapt, and if things are kept consistent, that one can grow in coco with many different styles.

In my new room, I have made big trays so I have drainage ability. In this room I am going with drip-to-runoff, not sure about recirculating yet, but drainage means I can water to runoff every time, and I can actually "flush" if I need/want.

Drip also easily allows multiple small waterings every day, and I think I can improve yields with this.
Always trying to Up my game.