GeneticHeirloom
Member
Most likely it adds to the stretch ability of Sativa strains.
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Most likely it adds to the stretch ability of Sativa strains.
pray4pistils
Member
I thought it was specifically nitrogen that did this.
Btw, I recently tried out some Bush Master to keep my sativa dom plants from getting out of hand. I'm happy to say that after applying 1ml/gal over a 3-day period... all vertical growth stopped COLD. The nodes are spaced super tightly. On the down side the plant doesn't look quite as perky as before. But, the bud swell seems to be totally normal. Next time I'll use 1ml/gal over a 2-day period and see what happens.
Cheers,
CandyColas
Member
Hi all. I'm so glad I found this forum and this thread. I just wish that I would have found it sooner.
Anyway, I started to notice that my leaves were starting to twist.
I was getting some necrotic spots
and leaves were starting to look like mutants
. It looked like toxic salt buildup according to pictures I've seen online so I flushed and have will be watering every 2 days with runoff. I've also lowered my nutes to about 25% of the recommended and will build up from there. This was 2 days ago and they already look better.
Since I'm new to all this, I have no idea how large they are supposed to be at this point. I thought that coco growth is supposed to be fast and they have been growing pretty slow. I just read some threads about Granddaddy purp and now I believe it's because of the strain.
I have a few questions that hopefully you guys can help out with:
Cuttings. Picture taken 6/23 (my first attempt 100% rooted in 8 days!)
Pregrowing for about a week in 3.5 inch pots to grow rootball. Picture taken 7/6
Transplanted in 3 gallon pots. Pictures taken 7/7
Looking better after flush. Picture taken 7/22
Here is the difference the flush made:
1 day before flush (taken 7/18)
3 days after flush (7/22)
So how do they look to all you pros out there?
- I'm currently growing 12 granddaddy purples
- Vegging under a single 400W MH
- I'm using Canna Coco in 3 gallon pots
- Canna A + B
- Cannazym
- Rhizotonic
Anyway, I started to notice that my leaves were starting to twist.
I was getting some necrotic spots
and leaves were starting to look like mutants
. It looked like toxic salt buildup according to pictures I've seen online so I flushed and have will be watering every 2 days with runoff. I've also lowered my nutes to about 25% of the recommended and will build up from there. This was 2 days ago and they already look better. Since I'm new to all this, I have no idea how large they are supposed to be at this point. I thought that coco growth is supposed to be fast and they have been growing pretty slow. I just read some threads about Granddaddy purp and now I believe it's because of the strain.
I have a few questions that hopefully you guys can help out with:
- PH - When should I test the PH and what should it be at with Canna products? Hydro store guy says to test PH after I add nutrients but I keep reading posts about testing before you add nutes. Canna recommends between 5.2 and 6.2 PH. I've been using 5.8.
- How often should I water with 3 gallon pots? I was thinking about setting up a dripper system. What is the best type? 1 emitter, 2 or 3 emitters or soaker tubes?
- Do I really need to flush or is 20% runoff enough of a flush? Canna doesn't recommend flushing. By the way, I've read in this thread to test PH and EC of your runoff but Canna says that testing your runoff (if running to waste) will give you false information. Any thoughts on that?
- Granddaddy purp is an indica strain so I know that it's going to be short and bushy. When should I switch to flower? They are only about 6 inches tall right now but they are about 12 - 15 inches wide. They are not growing in height very fast but they are growing quickly in width.
Cuttings. Picture taken 6/23 (my first attempt 100% rooted in 8 days!)
Pregrowing for about a week in 3.5 inch pots to grow rootball. Picture taken 7/6
Transplanted in 3 gallon pots. Pictures taken 7/7
Looking better after flush. Picture taken 7/22
Here is the difference the flush made:
1 day before flush (taken 7/18)
3 days after flush (7/22)
So how do they look to all you pros out there?
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chemsteady
Member
welcome to coco country!
welcome to coco country!
hey, ill see if i cant help a little. btw, everything you ve asked, can be found in this thread. i know reading all of it can be hard, but bonecarver (and others) answered a lot of these questions in the first four pages...
1-ph. 5.8 to 6.2 is my window, but ive seen others go higher with good results. keep in mind, i dont really use additives per se, so once you start getting into that mess...well, just dont get into that mess. use what you have now, thats all you need. you might need some pk later, but thats another issue. some people adjust they re nute solution before mixing, some after. i add my nutes, then adjust the ph, but ive heard that you need less ph up or down if you adjust you water before adding nutes. this does, obviously require experimentation, since you have to kinda guess where the ph will end up at after adding nutes. i didnt want to experiment, and my nutes never required much (ph down in my case) to get to my target ph so i mix ph adjust after. as your plants get older, and move into flower, i might recommend allowing the ph to raise slightly, so as to allow the plants to access the appropriate elements more efficiently.
2-how often you should water depends on a lot of things, but the best guidance i can give is to water enough to allow the pots to get dry (but not bone dry, just light to the touch) in a 24 hour period. you dont want the coco to dry out, you just want it to feel light in your hands, but still be a bit moist, does that make sense? see, the issue with your grow is the pots you began your plants in might be too big. its best to have an approp. size pot for the plant, especially in the beginning. repotting in coco is so easy. the best thing to do, would be to put your plants in those 3 gal containers right before flipping to 12/12. that way, your plants roots will have a bunch of new space to inhabit. happy roots equal good plants. start them in smaller containers next time, and repot up before flower. also, 12 plants under one 400? might be stretching it a little.
3-runoff? another personal thing, but i like to water with just a little run-off so that i know all the coco has been saturated. i tend to water with more run-off when plants are younger and in smaller pots, and less when i have bigger plants in bigger pots. %? man, i dont know how to water with percentages, but you dont need a lot, its kinda a waste, no?
4-a good rule of thumb for flipping to 12/12 is the height you want your plants to finish. that depends on the amount of vertical space you have, including your light and scrubber which will account for some of that space. indica dom (which gdp, {yum btw, i have some now,} is predominantly) tend to lean toward the 1:2 ratio. that is, veg to a foot, finish at 3ft or so. sativa dom will stretch more, obviously.
anyhow, hth a little. remember, this thread has all kinds of really good info, including a good core of well respected members really hashing out some of the finer points of handwatering coco. get your setup squared away, pull out the bong, and start reading! peace, brotha'
welcome to coco country!
hey, ill see if i cant help a little. btw, everything you ve asked, can be found in this thread. i know reading all of it can be hard, but bonecarver (and others) answered a lot of these questions in the first four pages...
1-ph. 5.8 to 6.2 is my window, but ive seen others go higher with good results. keep in mind, i dont really use additives per se, so once you start getting into that mess...well, just dont get into that mess. use what you have now, thats all you need. you might need some pk later, but thats another issue. some people adjust they re nute solution before mixing, some after. i add my nutes, then adjust the ph, but ive heard that you need less ph up or down if you adjust you water before adding nutes. this does, obviously require experimentation, since you have to kinda guess where the ph will end up at after adding nutes. i didnt want to experiment, and my nutes never required much (ph down in my case) to get to my target ph so i mix ph adjust after. as your plants get older, and move into flower, i might recommend allowing the ph to raise slightly, so as to allow the plants to access the appropriate elements more efficiently.
2-how often you should water depends on a lot of things, but the best guidance i can give is to water enough to allow the pots to get dry (but not bone dry, just light to the touch) in a 24 hour period. you dont want the coco to dry out, you just want it to feel light in your hands, but still be a bit moist, does that make sense? see, the issue with your grow is the pots you began your plants in might be too big. its best to have an approp. size pot for the plant, especially in the beginning. repotting in coco is so easy. the best thing to do, would be to put your plants in those 3 gal containers right before flipping to 12/12. that way, your plants roots will have a bunch of new space to inhabit. happy roots equal good plants. start them in smaller containers next time, and repot up before flower. also, 12 plants under one 400? might be stretching it a little.
3-runoff? another personal thing, but i like to water with just a little run-off so that i know all the coco has been saturated. i tend to water with more run-off when plants are younger and in smaller pots, and less when i have bigger plants in bigger pots. %? man, i dont know how to water with percentages, but you dont need a lot, its kinda a waste, no?
4-a good rule of thumb for flipping to 12/12 is the height you want your plants to finish. that depends on the amount of vertical space you have, including your light and scrubber which will account for some of that space. indica dom (which gdp, {yum btw, i have some now,} is predominantly) tend to lean toward the 1:2 ratio. that is, veg to a foot, finish at 3ft or so. sativa dom will stretch more, obviously.
anyhow, hth a little. remember, this thread has all kinds of really good info, including a good core of well respected members really hashing out some of the finer points of handwatering coco. get your setup squared away, pull out the bong, and start reading! peace, brotha'
we all want to know why no early pk on sat. dom. plants??
i use it for a good part of the flower time at 3-6 ml per gal.
here's a quote from canna responding to a email i sent them about pk 13/14...
"The best way to dial in the PK takes some trial and error work. First start applying PK about 3 days after you see the plant terminals stall and begin to change to a flower format. This can be anything from 3 - 10 days after switching light cycle or the natural trigger for flower is received by the plant. Remember a plant has to convert to flower in most cases which takes a little time from the moment the dark cycle increases or decreases based on the species of plant being grown. Use PK for about a 3 week window at each irrigation along with the other components. Then you can stop. You really can not use PK too long except in the final 2 weeks or so. The next crops, begin to shorten the beginning or end of the window until you find that just right window for your needs."
Hope this helps,
Ralph B.
--------------------------------------------------------
CANNA Research North America
well Ralph is a sharp cookie and I won't dispute what he's saying but the Canna coco
literature says 6ml / gal for 1 week only when the plant starts forming buds.
EDIT: I don't see the CANNA website mention the combined NPK on the website
but I found it at a retailer. It's 4-4-3
EDIT: Also the canna coco is used for both grow & bloom
so you only have to buy 1 each A&B.
literature says 6ml / gal for 1 week only when the plant starts forming buds.
EDIT: I don't see the CANNA website mention the combined NPK on the website
but I found it at a retailer. It's 4-4-3
EDIT: Also the canna coco is used for both grow & bloom
so you only have to buy 1 each A&B.
jackiee
Member
growing in canna coco nothing else added. rooted clones in root riot cubes then transplanted into 4inch pots of coco this is my first weeks feed 2ml canna a + b in 10 litres of water ph 5.9 4ml rhizotonic mixed in my question is will this be eneough nutes ? as it doesnt seem a lot and how much to feed next week i water till a little runoff is visible my plants are under a 250 cfl thanx
People say it has a charge to start
but not sure on that.
Canna says 8-11 ml /US gal for veg stage/fast growth.
You are at 2ml for 2.5 US gallons,
that's pretty low but let the plant guide you.
did u test the EC? and water through till runs through.
I'm thinking of using this Canna Coco with the biocanna nutrients (equal to OMRI).
Since the Canna coco has RHP rating (supposed to be equal with OMRI)
the meds would be certified organic (by me)
and a simple grow to boot.
I will sub the BioTerra plus instead of coco;
actually I will do a side by side on this in smartpots.
keep you posted
but not sure on that.
Canna says 8-11 ml /US gal for veg stage/fast growth.
You are at 2ml for 2.5 US gallons,
that's pretty low but let the plant guide you.
did u test the EC? and water through till runs through.
I'm thinking of using this Canna Coco with the biocanna nutrients (equal to OMRI).
Since the Canna coco has RHP rating (supposed to be equal with OMRI)
the meds would be certified organic (by me)
and a simple grow to boot.
I will sub the BioTerra plus instead of coco;
actually I will do a side by side on this in smartpots.
keep you posted
B
bonecarver_OG
hi all reasons not to give a sativa dominant (late flowering) plant PK too early - it just cant handle it early
hehe and it doesnt need it. most sativa dominant plants have little to do with 8 week harvesting plans - so any real sativa can not be given PK in the 5th week since it has not started flowering yet in a necesary amount to use up the extra feed.
2ml A/B per 10 liter of water will work fine
it is actually my favorite measure for nutes i seldom give more than that.sometimes the info from canna can seem a bit strange since we all know EC counts and not ml/l. the measures are just aids to give you an idea. an EC meter should be used to determine correct amount of nutrients - all depending on water EC.
using RO water it is possible to use more nutes to get to the 1.2 EC mark
using hardwater it takes less to get to 1.2 EC.
nute dosage should allways be done in relation to the water used.
does it clear anything?
please give biocanna a go and tell us how they are
peace!
huh? the pk boost should be done in week 2 or 3, regardless of indica or sativa as both are clearly showing the small flowers.
its not like sativas take 5 weeks to force. they're going in 2 just like an indica, its just that they take much longer to fill out and ripen.
but hey, you know best, i guess...
its not like sativas take 5 weeks to force. they're going in 2 just like an indica, its just that they take much longer to fill out and ripen.
but hey, you know best, i guess...
A
Aleksis Stoned
I have joined the bandwagon of hand watered coco
Right now I have just four plants going in a little tent, waiting on outdoor season. My setup is hempy buckets filled with coco and fed with canna A & B, Canna Rhizotonic, PK 13/14 for later, Canna boost. Right now just three Thyphoon plants in early veg mode just coming off of a FIMing at the first node and doing great. I had planned to run a few auto AK 47 x auto Blueberry from lowlife along side, but those seeds were crap and only one grew. I will throw up some pics soon for you guys to see.
Does anyone know any diaries, feeding instructions and other information considering hempy buckets & coco? Would apperciate it very much. I think i'm going to test this but i haven't got a clue how often you need to flush cocohempys and how much nutrients should i give. Should i mix coco with some other medium (perlite, clay pellets...) and mixing ratio? I'd rather stick to pure coco but does this shorten the flushing intervals?
coco is loaded with K and the fert's have lots of K.
You may not need as much as you think.
Are you seeing K deficiency without the PK?
thanks.
G
Greyskull
I was under the impression that coco was inert, or didn't hold any nutrients or minerals - very unlike traditional soil mixes.
Also using a PK booster in bloom weeks 2-3 (I am currently growing a crop with PK 13/14 added wks 2-6... looking good!) such as PK13/14 isn't so much for correcting any deficiencies, but rather 'supercharging' early floral developement - for more bigger buds.
am i misinformed?
P
PrinSeshJasmine
.
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P
PrinSeshJasmine
.
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The coco coir fibre has natural K, as part of the plant fibre.
I coco supplier wrote me & said coir can have 300-400PPM "K";
which is about equal to a fert with a NPK of 0-0-10 or a product with 10% "K"
at around 15ml/gal of feed solution.
All this "K" for free from the pith is good thing but could get out of balance if we don't compensate with the proper N, Cal & Mag.
Cal/Mag blocked or antagonized by high "K" levels is what this fert company believe.
I think you don't want too much "K"; though I used Roots Organics HPK in small amounts.
I coco supplier wrote me & said coir can have 300-400PPM "K";
which is about equal to a fert with a NPK of 0-0-10 or a product with 10% "K"
at around 15ml/gal of feed solution.
All this "K" for free from the pith is good thing but could get out of balance if we don't compensate with the proper N, Cal & Mag.
Cal/Mag blocked or antagonized by high "K" levels is what this fert company believe.
I think you don't want too much "K"; though I used Roots Organics HPK in small amounts.
G
Greyskull
this is the stuff i use...
part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsJXJED0qD4
part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbqF2HANJBA
part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SMPNg1DCGE&feature=related
whatever the science behind it is, it works great.
part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsJXJED0qD4
part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbqF2HANJBA
part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SMPNg1DCGE&feature=related
whatever the science behind it is, it works great.
good vid's they pass out the DVD at grow shops
(if they like you)
Yah the CANNA has RHP rating (similar OMRI)
quality mark for substrates.
they don't steam their coir. that to preserves
the natural trichoderma
which fights Pythium
and has plant strengthening properties.
Patients are looking for organic; so the Canna's a good start point.
(if they like you)
Yah the CANNA has RHP rating (similar OMRI)
quality mark for substrates.
they don't steam their coir. that to preserves
the natural trichoderma
which fights Pythium
and has plant strengthening properties.
Patients are looking for organic; so the Canna's a good start point.
G
Greyskull
the canna coco a/b formula is engineered to compensate for that 'k' jive discussed earleir, yeah? especially when used wit their brand of coco coir i am pretty sure.
i don't understand (nor do i want too) the science behind things. just confuses me. kinda like when I hear "its in the key of A#... in 5/4 time".... WHAT? haha
in my experience they offer a simple effective 'road map' to killer crops right off the shelf.
way simpler than anything AN... and in my experience way BETTER too. for less. i heart canna haha. they did all the heavy lifting
i don't understand (nor do i want too) the science behind things. just confuses me. kinda like when I hear "its in the key of A#... in 5/4 time".... WHAT? haha
in my experience they offer a simple effective 'road map' to killer crops right off the shelf.
way simpler than anything AN... and in my experience way BETTER too. for less. i heart canna haha. they did all the heavy lifting
Yah, I'm doing a Canna RHP certified organic
next after I finish up my current media.
It helps that I can walk to a CANNA dealer in 15 minutes
or drive in 2 minutes.
Canna also puts "sell by dates" on their fertilizer.
next after I finish up my current media.
It helps that I can walk to a CANNA dealer in 15 minutes
or drive in 2 minutes.
Canna also puts "sell by dates" on their fertilizer.
