the Hand Watering coco thread

[Darkstarlive]

I think thats where I get screwed up, trying to keep the Coco moist but not soggy. I think I let it get too dry most of the time and I only feed once a week and my plants look pale green. Since all of my experience is in soil grows I have to adapt to a hydro style of growing and like BC said "don't treat it like a soil grow"

Thanks,
Peace...

Jaws: Hit me up buddy

 

[Ziggy420]

I have to agree. My first experiment with coco was not going well until I left town for 5 days. I had been watering daily in pure fine grain coco and the root sytem just wasn't going anywhere and a more than 1 month old was no more than 6 inches high.
When I came back home the plant had jumped about 6 inches.

 

[Kosmo]

great thread, Thank u

 

[bonecarver_OG]

I have to agree. My first experiment with coco was not going well until I left town for 5 days. I had been watering daily in pure fine grain coco and the root sytem just wasn't going anywhere and a more than 1 month old was no more than 6 inches high.
When I came back home the plant had jumped about 6 inches.

i presume the plants were small plants in veg or clones? sometimessome strains dont like too much water early - but its just a question of getting them used to it.

i full-heartedlly recomend to water atleast once a day.

its of out-most importance u have the correct PH and nutricion levels.

watering coco once a week is NOT a recomended practise in anyway - and actually i have to say right away its the surest way to get salt buildup in ur coco pots.

make sure the plants are in pots that are in relacion to the size of the plant. a small plant in a bigger pot with lots of water might not be happy from the lack of oxygen and excess of water. better keep the pot small - make sure the pot gets well wet every watering - with a little bit of run of.

treat it like a hydro grow. U decide when UR plants GOT TO EAT hehe and u decide how much they grow, and when. - thats the hydro part and thats also the simplest reason why hydro-culture is more economic energywise for the plant.

less energy is spent on rootmass and leafmatter and more gets concentrated in the production of flowers, or tomatoes, lettuce or what ever u want.

if u water once a week u are definetly treating it like a soil grow - and further more - if u are watering every day and the growth is not increasing:
change the amount of water u are giving them or the nute mix (suposing u have the PH right.)

btw also it is common small plants do have an initial period of root-growth and stabilization etc - and these first 2-3 weeks the growth is far slower than the days after it gotten into full veg mode. once the roots are big enough - they can take almost what ever u want to give them - as long as u dont push it too much

i wish u luck

just remember as rule of guidance:
small plant + big pot (or volume of medium) = little use of water and stagnated water/nutes means less oxygen

small plant + small pot (or volume of medium) = more effective use of water - the roots use the medium better (best for drip solucions IMHO)

big plant + small pot (or volume of medium) = very high use of water - and bigger risk for salt buildups if left dry

bigplant + big pot (or volume of medium) = more effective use of water - the roots use the medium better (best solucion for handwatering coco)

(big and small is relative to the size of plant in question)

this quick list i made i bet has lots of modificators - im just generalizing to simplify.



note the different sized plants in different sized pots

pre-veg, re-veg and clone space


anyway just my 2 cents and it works for me

all the best -- bone the carver!

 

[-VT-]

Great post bonecarver

Thanks

 

[bonecarver_OG]

thanx mate

im not trying to say its a rule or anything since some strains like to have more root space than others - also some strains have a higher water and nute usage - that will further modify the "guide" above.

i think the most important part is to make up ones mind for once - and start paying attencion to the plants:

- most "farmers" and "gardeners" with outstanding results - are often not the ppl measuring everything they do - rather they learn to know their plants and their signs when they need something. also i am sure feeling plays in a lot. we have a lot to learn from the ppl around us with incredible gardens and or veggie patches/farms.

it might seem like hippie mumbojumbo, but i for one think the best teachers for us to grow better is our own plants. their behaviour is the key.

hehe got to get connected with em

peace!

 

[Rosy Cheeks]

less energy is spent on rootmass and leafmatter and more gets concentrated in the production of flowers, or tomatoes, lettuce or what ever u want.

Good post, I agree. Hydro is ALL about the roots though, so you could say that hydro is a system that concentrate on optimal root formation and nutrient uptake.
I've seen the same genetics yield more than twice as much (in the same growroom, with the same veg and flowering time) in a hydro system that allowed unlimited root expantion compared to a hydro system with a limited space (per plant), so we're not simply talking superior CEC (caption exchange capacity, in which most soils (depending on composition) seem to be inferior to coco, and both soil and coco is inferior to water). Size matters.

A Blueberry grown in 100% coco choir, watered with organic nutrients every day.

 

[bonecarver_OG]

nice! and a BIG WELLCOME!

yes the roots are the most important part of any plant or method of growing - that is obviously rule of thumb good point.

to get deeper into the subject, of course a plant in optimum nutricional schedule, all the root space it wants and all the rest of the variables in control - should yield more than a plant that is in some way compromised.

in coco the ready availability of the food of the plants - and the fact its far less energy consuming for the plant to grow the roots (less resistance since coco is just so nicelly fluffy) and thats why the roots do grow quicker in coco.

roots that are amassed in a small space will not absorb nutricion as well as roots that are well spaced out covering a bigger volume/area of substrate. this is very quick to see hehe planting same clone in small or big pot - the bigger pots ALLWAYS YIELD MORE. never fails as long as the rest of the conditions are well cared of - ie the watering amount, the nutricions, light and the whole lot etc

it is good u brought that up

one good example i experienced was growing our keepr SSH x PTK outside down here under the sun - in coco handwatered. the plants were in 50-70 liter pots and they got planted outside in august (yep right into when the flowering season starts) the cloens were about 20 cm tall lanky and a bit ugly. when we harvested the bushes in october WE COULDNT BELIEVE how much they actually had grown. the amount of buds it produced in comparison with leaf/stems or branches.. from those clones we harvest well over 1,5 kilos of prime buds. (4-5 plants).

im sure the size of the pot had a LOT to do with it - since i also had same clone in an other place in similar conditions but in a 1/4 of pot space.

my first thought with the pot sizes had not much else to do with anything, than just wanting to make sure the pots would be big enough to hold the water they need daily.

so: the more light, rootspace, (and as long as all environmental conditions + nutes are under control), the bigger will the yield be.

im not going to enter into the subject of hydrocultures like nft's or the floating systems (where one plant of lettuce etc is basicly floating on a mini-foam raft with 100's of liters of water for root space!) etc - i just want to concentrate on coco. - i know a 100% effective proper hydro setup would yield more because of the CEC - im trying just to concentrate on coco handwatering

i cant help to laugh out with relief when i see u also use the 1 liter beer mugs as mini pots

do u cut holes in them too?

psst some day i will try with even bigger beds of coco - and put the plants out late to flower - no waste on vegtime - just stems full of chunky buds


NO VEG: small clone straight to flowering outside. rooted undef fluoros:

 

[-VT-]

I had a theory about pot size and I suspect it's bunk now I was gonna even do a side by side with pot sizes (watering smaller pot more frequently and larger pot every few days)....no point wasting my time and clones lol. I just learned a lot in these past few posts....

In fact I was thinking about NFT (Rosy Cheeks' baby) when I was formulating my pot size "theory"....so much for that.....bonecarver has cleared lots up for me...

Good to see you here Rosy Cheeks!! I've looked up to you, and been a fan for a few years now!! Course you aleady knew that, I just wanna make it publicly known...lol Can't wait to see more of your coco action...

Keep it up bonecarver...you're saving me the trouble of mucking up plants with my bunk theories Seriously, thanks for taking the time bro....

 

[Rosy Cheeks]

Thanks guys. You're much more experienced coco-growers than I am though, I tend to diversify and try a little bit of everything. I sure am learning more from what you say than what you learn from me, which is why I keep my head down in the coco forums.
This is my first 100% coco choir grow (apart from coco mixed with soil or perlite), which I run with organic nutrients, simply because Blueberry is a non-forgiving strain and organic nutes makes it slightly more forgiving.
As you can see on this pic, the top node on several plants are freakish, and I've not yet decided whether to ascribe it to the Blueberry genetics, or a Ph problem due to irregular waterings.
Any inputs?

 

[humble1]

it may be exactly your inputs that are the issue (oooh, bad pun, sorry)
so, to clarify, yes it probably is your watering/pH
my blueberries have done some weird things, but not that.
let me guess..... seaweed is a key ingredient in your organic stew?

 

[Rosy Cheeks]

let me guess..... seaweed is a key ingredient in your organic stew?

I don't think so, but it is a component in a carbohydrate additive I started using a few days ago, so it could be a correct diagnosis, concidering that only the top node is affected.

 

[Ziggy420]

I've been out of the loop a few days so I've got to reply back several posts.

Bonecarver: It appears that letting her? dry out a bit helped in the overall vigor of the plant. I had done some probing in the pot prior to my memorial day jaunt and the root ball was just bigger than a golf ball after a month in a 6 inch net pot. Now after 2 weeks of reduced watering/feeding the roots are poking out all over and the lock out problems seem to have diminished. To avoid salt build up I flushed 2X pot volume w/ distilled water. So I guess I was over watering to begin with and she never had a chance to get established. Haven't decided if I'm going to drop her in my bubbler or keep going with RTW. Either way I'm going to increase the freaquency of watering and see how she goes cus the plant seems to be more balanced with the pot size.

Rosie Cheeks: I was checking my pH and keeping it 5.6 - 6.0 and I was getting the deformed leaves all over. When I slowed down my watering/feeding and let it dry out a bit, all this new healthy growth popped out on top and the roots went crazy. The first spirt while I was out of town was 6 inches in 5 days. I guess I still have some dialing in to do. I'm gonna check my pH at next watering just to see where I'm at.

Other than that I've been fighting fungus nats. I got some good photos of nats, and some other little nasties that undoubtedly are their larva. I had to up the potentcy of my neem spray mix cus they were just laughing at the 2 tbl per gallon that was on the bottle. It was pretty ugly there but things seem to be under control.

Thanks for the input one and all ;-)

 

[-VT-]

IMO this is from overfert or pH....gotta keep pure coco moist....in your case I think it's overfert....because your previous pic shows the onset of lockout (least in my experience)...which is droopy leaves in my grows and gardens....when I see droopy leaves I start flushing and revisit pH and nute concentration and make adjustments.

Twisting leaves is a sign of excess K ....I can't comment on the Organic Tea you're using...

Maybe you need some Cal/Mag+

 

[Rosy Cheeks]

I don't think it's overfert VT, I know the Blueberry from earlier grows and I'm keeping dialed-in low levels of organic ferts. It's just the 100% coco choir that is new to me. And, it's the hungriest, fastest growing plants that are hit the worst. It should be the smaller, more sensitive plants in case of a too strong nutrient solution, since they're all getting the same mix.
As said, I did throw in a carbohydrate additive this weekend. I didn't check them until Monday morning, the plants grew a little faster than I thought they would and the biggest ones got quite close to the tubes (neons).
I figure either something not suitable with coco in the additive, high temps/ too close to the bulb, a ph problem due to spaced out watering, something along that line. But I'm guessing...

 

[-VT-]

If you're sure it's not overfert then pH is a probably the culprit. Or that tea locked out something....I don't think it's temps or any of that other stuff....it's a nutrient disorder IMO...

 

[bonecarver_OG]

Rosy - check if the roots of the coco have started to get down into the bottom of the pot - and if there is any risk for them drying out?

as far as i can see it cant bee nothing else than root damage - the growing tip is the first to get affected when the growing roots gets to a dry spot and die (for example the bottom of the coco pot might have gotten dry - ot the roots growing out might have been compromised in some way.

reading further on in ur last post - it seems to definetly be that - the leaf tips are not capable of getting the water it needs from the heat (is it touching the fluoro?)

i have before also come over similar problems - usualy repotting solved it.

ziggy - how often were u really watering the small plant before u had the "break" - starts to sound u in effect were keeping it water logged. small plants in small pots should NOT get watered too much - especially from seedlings - clones are more sturdy. imho

also i think its crucial to let the pot in the early stages - get to a very light humid state - not dry - just enough air to make the roots search for the water - u need to get the roots going. also for tiny seedlings it beneficial not to water too close to the stem. water along the rim of the pot to make the roots grow a bit. BUT i doo recomend as soon as u see ur plant is in the rapid veg state - u should increase watering and nutes.

just one extreme needing an other to get balanced - way too much water for too long time kills the roots. when u let it dry out a bit - the roots will go looking for what they need.

it should NOT in ANY WAY be seen as a comon or recomended practise.
as told before this will promote problems sooner or later. Dont let the coco dry out too much.

neem does little for fungus gnats. try bacterial methods.

peace

 

[bonecarver_OG]

rosy - have u tried coco-specific nutes?

Bio-magnos series of biological/orgnic nutes work great in coco - seriously seems to worth the bucks for organic growers

just a thought


peace!

 

[Neptune]

Rosey, that looks like overwater to me.
I am an expert of overwatering, I do it all the fucking time...

 

[Blunt Trauma]

Rosey, that looks like overwater to me.
I am an expert of overwatering, I do it all the fucking time...

Well now, with a name like Neptune it'd be hard NOT to overwater, lol