The growing large plants, outdoors, thread...

[Endur]

I need some advice.....
I went with EWSF (NorCal Blend) last year in 100 gallon smart pots....10yards worth.

I was happy with my results, but really didn't like how the water kind of just pooled up on the surface when I hand watered. seemed like the high % of worm castings made the water not soak into the soil evenly.....

My question is....
Should I re-amend the soil, or just go with new EWSF (NorCal Blend) soil?

anyone have some good ideas on what & how much amendments I should add to each 100 gallon pot?

I'm pretty sure someone is going to recommend I get a Lab Soil Test, but figured maybe I wouldn't need to, if someone has already had the soil test done, as to what needs to be added to get the soil back to par.

Thanks
Endur

 

[bamboogardner]

Worm Farm going to advance forward in the coming season , NorCal Blend is going to the next level !

Hey BackYard. Does the worm farm have any published soil tests that are current. Would be good to see one. Also, talked to Dave today. Said he will not run out this year, BUT the backlog will start to build up in the coming months and people will not be able to possibly get the soil in a timely manner, but he won't run out. I assume getting it mixed up and delivered is the problem with the backlog. Also he stated that alot of guys are ordering without the perlite due to it decomposing over time, and having the red lava rock substituted? Any pros and cons on that?

Dave also stated he "has the soil dialed in" for medicinal and won't be making any significant changes in the immediate future. Could you chime in on that one. It would be a bummer to order now only to have the mix change next week for the better as you stated might be occurring. Hoping to see a lab report..........

Thanks for the info on Worm Farm.

 

[Backyard Farmer]

If you didn't do any top dressing or anything too crazy , go down to the Worm Soil Factory and pick up some EarthWorm Mix and put ~5 lbs on each of your beds.

The way things were getting blended last season , the peat moss was pulverized too much during the blending process - This year there is a new process being implemented to keep the peat from being so fine with hopes to improve the overall structure.

 

[theJointedOne]

I need some advice.....
I went with EWSF last year in 100 gallon smart pots....10yards worth.

I was happy with my results, but really didn't like how the water kind of just pooled up on the surface when I hand watered. seemed like the high % of worm castings made the water not soak into the soil evenly.....

My question is....
Should I re-amend the soil, or just go with new EWSF soil?

anyone have some good ideas on what & how much amendments I should add to each 100 gallon pot?

I'm pretty sure someone is going to recommend I get a Lab Soil Test, but figured maybe I wouldn't need to, if anyone has already had the soil test done, as to what needs to be added to get the soil back to par.

Thanks
Endur

Sounds like you might just need some more aeration in your soil. Perhaps lava rock, vermiculite, perlite, ect would be helpful?

 

[Backyard Farmer]

Hey BackYard. Does the worm farm have any published soil tests that are current. Would be good to see one. Also, talked to Dave today. Said he will not run out this year, BUT the backlog will start to build up in the coming months and people will not be able to possibly get the soil in a timely manner, but he won't run out. I assume getting it mixed up and delivered is the problem with the backlog. Also he stated that alot of guys are ordering without the perlite due to it decomposing over time, and having the red lava rock substituted? Any pros and cons on that?

Dave also stated he "has the soil dialed in" for medicinal and won't be making any significant changes in the immediate future. Could you chime in on that one. It would be a bummer to order now only to have the mix change next week for the better as you stated might be occurring. Hoping to see a lab report..........

Thanks for the info on Worm Farm.

Hi you snuck in on me.

The past few years the way they were doing the blending , the perlite got more or less destroyed and then after a season it was more or less gone.

With a new blending program they are using, the perlite stays in-tact.

You can sub out the Perlite for Lava Rock and it works well.

The Worm Soil Factory and I are going to work together to make a few adjustments to the Nor Cal Blend and test it this year. Is it a ReVamp ? Not at all. At the moment I am working on getting the inputs to the proper places to have my new mix done up and tested , then mixed up with the soil and tested again to make sure no adjustments need to be made to the ratio of compost to castings , but since I ran the math on the inputs I'm changing and they're relatively the same..the base structure of the soil should stay the same as well.

You mentioned the difference between what I want to do and the standard Nor Cal Mix , again if the tests go through with the expected results maybe you will see Earth Worm Mix Plus. The Earth Worm Mix is the dry nutrient blend offered by the Worm Soil Factory for re-amending soil.

Even if the numbers are there on paper , Dave and Larry Royal would not release 1000s of Yds. of product that hasn't been proven on the farm and at the earliest would be in its new form in 2015, if in fact the changes do what is envisioned!

The Nor Cal Blend in its current form for the general publics use is the best soil that you can buy for set and forget success.

There is no other soil that you can mix up 1 yard of that will be to the quality of the Worm Soil Factory's Nor Cal Mix 2014 Blend for $198

...By the time you get the compost , peat moss , amendments and then spend your time to blend it factor in the time you spent to get the ingredients the gas etc., or shipping you will actually SAVE money by spending only $198 to fill up each 200 gal pot because you won't need to spend money on bottled fertilizer AT ALL through out the year.

You will benefit from a solid foliar program, but you don't need it for good results.

Regarding back log of soil , the floor space for blending at the Worm Soil Factory is AMPLE as well as the infrastructure they have present to do the blending. The issue is the transfer trucks. There are only so many of them that are skilled enough to handle the glorified goat trails most people call drive ways in this area and willing to go in to those areas.


Big up and best of luck.

 

[furrywall11]

Put me on the list of people looking forward to Bamboo Gardener's vermifire test results. Glad you could get it tested for all of us ... Last year I did 15 300's and 15 200's with vermifire... a few things I noticed; the soil wasn't _that_ hot- the year before I had some soil that was so hot it would blister your hand if you put it in for longer than 5 seconds-- but, it definitely had enough nutrients to last until they started flowering, water goes right through this stuff.... I'm wondering how I should reammend my year old Vermifire. I'm thinking about just ordering a few totes of Vermiblend http://www.vermicrop.com/vermiblend -- and, maybe some oyster shell because of the low calcium levels? -- it would be awesome if I could find something that could add organic matter and hold water.. with the drought I'm not super pleased about wasting all that water. Any ideas? I'm also going to add my own myco blend and do a super strength compost tea or two before I transplant. And someone super helpful suggested biochar..which I might try. I'm not worried about adding any more nutrients to the soil because I'll be using 1/2 strength General Organics or Green Trees top dressing and regular compost teas.

 

[bamboogardner]

Put me on the list of people looking forward to Bamboo Gardener's vermifire test results

I just checked the website and the report is not listed yet. Should be any day now. I sent the sample priority, and they should have received it on Monday, but possibly today. Stay Tuned.

Well, what I am probably going to do based on the results is to 50/50 the available Vermi Fire I have now with the new Worm Farm soil. This would definitely help the water to soak in because with the Vermi, the water shoots right through, so if indeed the Worm Farm is a bit more dense, that should be the best of both worlds.

And sorry Backyard if I let any cat's out of the bag. I called Dave to schedule a delivery because I don't want to be on that list of people who procrastinated. I have enough work to do now, and stressing over when the soil gets to me would not be one of my enjoyable moments, if you know what I mean.

Thanks for all the info on Worm Farm. I never knew they existed.

Later peeps.

 

[milkyjoe]

here is what they sent me for a soil test. its from a test they did last year.

I am not familiar with that test protocol but that soil would scare the shit out of me. The EC is 5.3...Reams recommended never over 0.7. You would be lucky not to burn roots. N levels are high too, I would think stretchy plants prone to mites.

 

[Madjag]

Sounds like you might just need some more aeration in your soil. Perhaps lava rock, vermiculite, perlite, ect would be helpful?

I believe your soil is definitely too dense.....perhaps too much organic material and for sure not enough aeration. Volcanic cinders, sand or greensand, pH adjusted coco, or even Grodan loose Gro-Wool will aerate as well as hold water.

Roots like room to move, not dense black soil that puddles water from too many clay colloids. Get a decent test and pay to have it interpreted. I can suggest both if you need, just PM me.

Peace,
Madjag

 

[humboldt-hank]

Thank you Milkyjoe for your thoughts. I'm glad i asked for everyones advice. I was going to order quite a lot of their bulk soil this year. That would have been a lot of time and money wasted. Now I'm just going to go ahead with my original plan to use bagged soil by the pallet. It will cost almost twice as much but it seems like it will be more constant. So I'm going to go with Tom Hill's mix exactly.

 

[Endur]

I believe your soil is definitely too dense.....perhaps too much organic material and for sure not enough aeration. Volcanic cinders, sand or greensand, pH adjsuted coco, or even Grodan loose Gro-Wool will aerate as well as hold water.

Roots like room to move, not dense black soil that puddles water from too many clay colloids. Get a decent test and pay to have it interpreted. I can suggest both if you need, just PM me.

Peace,
Madjag

The thing is, I went with the Norcal Blend, from EWSF, it did have small lave rocks added to the mix, for aeration.....

so I might just go with a different soil mix this year.

thanks
Endur

 

[megayields]

Sounds like you might just need some more aeration in your soil. Perhaps lava rock, vermiculite, perlite, ect would be helpful?

Endur...that's exactly what I was thinking too.....but I'm no expert....their are peeps in this thread with a shit ton more experience than myself.

 

[bamboogardner]

Okay Guys. The Vermifire Soil Test Results are in. Please keep in mind these facts. Last grow I purchased all new VermiFire. I grew in 100 gallon containers and hit them with tea once a week and fox farm ferts once a week.

I then took a soil sample from 10 containers last week, 1 cup from each container and mixed them all together to get 1 cup total. I then took one cup of brand new Vermi Fire that had never seen the light of day. I mixed with last years Vermi Fire at a 50/50 ratio, and that is what I sent in to the lab.

Hopefully a knowledgeable person can interpret the results, but at first blush, I was not impressed.

Chime in guys. Lets hear what you have to say.



If these are unreadable, they are also located in my album under VermiFire Soil Test.

Have Fun

 

[Cep]

^^^ It's not terrible compared to what many places offer. Correcting the Ca and B won't be too difficult. I'd increase organic matter, 8 is a low cec.

 

[bamboogardner]

I'd increase organic matter, 8 is a low cec.

8 is a low cec. What is that meaning? Organic Matter is the Nitrogen? Explain that if you will please.

I was originally going to mix 12 yards of new Vermifire with the 12 yards of old VermiFire I have now from last year. But Worm Farm soil seems good too, and someone said it is not as fast to lose moisture. I thought the 10 yards of old VermiFire I have now where the water just shoots through mixed with 12 yards of the Worm Farm would be a good combination. What do you think?

Thanks,

 

[Backyard Farmer]

You don't need to buy Nor Cal Blend. The Nor Cal Blend already has Peat Moss and Perlite mixed in to it. Adding more potting soil in to it will throw it out of balance. If you really want to get Nor Cal Blend and use Vermi Fire just blend the Vermi Fire in to the bottom of the mound as a base layer tilled in to the native soil then throw the Nor Cal on top so you don't mess it up.

You could just cut the Vermi Fire in to the Worm Soil Factory Garden Blend Plus and then test that and amend it to bring it to Albrecht ...Adding his Compost and Castings will help the Vermi Fire out a lot.

The CEC Being low means is that it has a small # of places to be loaded up with nutrient ions.

 

[Shcrews]

Bamboo Gardner thanks for posting that Vermifire analysis, i am also re-using last year's vermifire and that saved me some time!

question for all you big plant growers, : I have a bunch of 200gallon pots filled with vermifire from last year, last april we amended lightly with Oyster Shell, Azomite, Rainbow Mix, EWC, and Kelp Meal... then watered mostly with plain water the whole season.

Based on the vermifire analysis posted by Bamboo Gardner, what would y'all recommend I do to prepare the pots this year for some monsters?

 

[Shcrews]

..

 

[Cep]

8 is a low cec. What is that meaning? Organic Matter is the Nitrogen? Explain that if you will please.

I was originally going to mix 12 yards of new Vermifire with the 12 yards of old VermiFire I have now from last year. But Worm Farm soil seems good too, and someone said it is not as fast to lose moisture. I thought the 10 yards of old VermiFire I have now where the water just shoots through mixed with 12 yards of the Worm Farm would be a good combination. What do you think?

Thanks,

Having more organic matter will help the soil hold Nitrogen and other nutrients. Like Backyard said you don't want to mix the two if the worm farm soil is near ideal. If you lay down the old vermifire as a base you should correct the low Calcium and Boron. The worm farm soil sounds like it's very biological active. Having those work their way from the top down into the vermifire is a definite pro.

How much does that place charge for a yard of castings anyway?

Bamboo Gardner thanks for posting that Vermifire analysis, i am also re-using last year's vermifire and that saved me some time!

question for all you big plant growers, : I have a bunch of 200gallon pots filled with vermifire from last year, last april we amended lightly with Oyster Shell, Azomite, Rainbow Mix, EWC, and Kelp Meal... then watered mostly with plain water the whole season.

Based on the vermifire analysis posted by Bamboo Gardner, what would y'all recommend I do to prepare the pots this year for some monsters?

Depends on how much of all those inputs you added. The oyster shell flour will bring your Ca up but azomite only has 29ppm B which might not make a big enough difference (you want Boron to be up to 2 ppm in the soil).

It helps to have an analysis that gives ppm's and CEC percentages rather than just low, med, high values. This is an example from my local lab:



The "home" sample is a product of 20 years of willy nilly shit and lime spreading. The "farm" sample was planned a bit more carefully, with only 1 adjustment the prior fall.

The CEC section on the right side of the report gives percentages. Shoot for around 65-70 %Ca, 10-15% Mg, 5%K, 10%H, <3%Na

Boron should be fixed and some of the Sulphate leeched, I'll find out in a month or so. Adjusting soil really fucks with my ocd!

If you can ballpark the Albrecht percentages you'll be in good shape though.

 

[z-ro]

Hey folks, looking good in here. Can't wait to see what 2014 brings to everyone. We are in a new location, not as much water as the last place but I have pge so that will be nice. Keeping it mellow this year till the rains come back. I think that in my area they are going to be busting anyone that's using a ton of h2o so we're going to get in and out with some deps and then focus on indoor until 2015 season. Best of luck to you all!