The growing large plants, outdoors, thread...

[Shcrews]

I highly doubt this is his problem.

I suspect the problem lies in the choice to use an untested bagged soil that they modified. Did they calculate how much of each element their various inputs were adding to the guaranteed analysis of the soil? Better yet, to the test they should have gotten of their bagged soil.

Also what type of water are they using? Have they tested it to know its properties?

Like Milky says, if this is your job, treat it like a job. Get the tools you need to know what is going on, invest in the proper testing beforehand to know what you are getting in to and put yourself in a position to be proactive instead of reactive.

It's too expensive to fuck up your one chance of growing trees per year to not spend the $125 to get a soil test, the $1500 or so a good set of meters will run you, and $15 for a note book with graph paper and a ruler.

thanks for the tip, i agree and am somewhat embarassed to be in my position with such meager knowledge of organic farming

 

[mapinguari]

while we are on the subject (im sure its been mentioned somewhere in the last hundreds of pages)...but what are everybody prefered choice of meters?

im also wondering whats the ideal brix meter, we are using a refractometer and some kind of gravity meter for the winegrapes, is there a specific meter thats ideal of cannabis?

This is from Hash Man's summary, in post #814, of a lot of Tom's contributions to the thread (quoting TH):

"I recommend a pH meter, an ERGS (energy released per gram of soil) meter, and an Na (sodium) meter at the very least. The other two meters in my arsenal are an ORP (Oxygen reduction potential) meter and a refractometer (reads degrees Brix/%sucrose)"

 

[boobs]

Anyone have any experience with one of these? http://www.irrometer.com/sensors.html

 

[milkyjoe]

i only mentioned the fusarium because every plant that eventually wilts always turns yellow first from the bottoms and insides on out, so at this point a reactive approach has a small chance of success. if his plants are already unhealthy they are even more susceptible to root rot issues..even if they havent developed yet. too much salt/inbalanced ratios = stress on roots = pathogens attack through the weak roots = good bye plant.

Oddly enough studying how Round Up works will give you a major clue as to how to avoid fusarium. All I will say is that glyphosate is a chelation agent.

 

[SpawnOfTom]

While on the topic of pathogens... I have what I think is hemp canker. Doesnt quite look like the picture but some similar stuff going on. Im doing what I can to mitigate but wonder how bad im screwed. I mean should I resign myself to writing off those plants or will the mycostop and bacillus subtillus help me salvage something. Anyone know were to get contans wg in 707? I dont need the water lecture Ipretty sure thats what got me here. Got caught in a bad spot after watering and that damn t storm, coupled with probably planting to low and not cleaning out the bottom for air flow. Not my first rodeo just never ridden in this weight class before.

 

[Reach4thesky]

This thread is easily why the entire US is flooded with cali bud! And I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!

Gotta remember here in Oregon u can do 96 per parcel. I never max out but i know a lot of people here that do multiple maxed out parcels. So ya Oregon is right up there with u guys in cali.

Thought it was time to put up some updated pics while they start to stretch for the sky! Everyone's gardens here are boss hogs! Looking great across the board! ((Little info on garden and last pics on pg.475))

PS: Thats my same buddy from previous post/pics standing on the 6ft ladder in the garden pic. Remember i mentioned he is 6ft 5inchs.







-All plants in the pictures above are in compliance with state laws-

 

[ponocrookedbrah]

holy shit brah!

 

[OrganicBuds]

Reach4TheSky - Awesome garden man. Way to rep your state, your giving us cali boys a run for our money. Please post up more pics come harvest time, until then, best of luck.

 

[Carlos Danger]

Wait wait wait, how did I not know the OMMP allowed outdoor growing?

 

[Veg N Out]

hey veg did you run tests on the norcal blend, how is it holding up through the season? did you have to add anything to it. we're having zero issues with yellowing in the norcal blend, everything looks healthy just slow stretch in certain strains...fwiw, fisher15 is using vermifire blend and crushing it right now, his plants are bigger than anything we have going in the norcal blend. not sure if he amended his differently. we are following dave royals regime using no salt fertilizers at all in the root zone, and feeding mostly foliars and compost tea. quick reading up on ergs seems to back up his approach, too much ferts in the rootzone can slow the growth down and lead to pathogen issues, seems contrary to many peoples methods up here i know guys dumping entire gallons of cutting edge or general hydro into their reservoirs, running shitty empire builder or some other subpar soil and still growing some giants.

i only mentioned the fusarium because every plant that eventually wilts always turns yellow first from the bottoms and insides on out, so at this point a reactive approach has a small chance of success. if his plants are already unhealthy they are even more susceptible to root rot issues..even if they havent developed yet. too much salt/inbalanced ratios = stress on roots = pathogens attack through the weak roots = good bye plant.

even though im planning on swapping out everything for the norcal blend next year, guess i cant gamble everything on dave, gotta invest in some proper meters and start getting into the scientific aspects of this.....interesting to know about water testing never quite thought about that. both my gardens are getting different water sources, wonder if that could be one of the problems for my low elevation garden...such a weird problem because i have zero yellowing or signs of deficiency in the norcal blend, just some damn slow growth in certain clones.

Hi , I've been working with Dave for a few years now and we both follow the same principles when it comes to farming, those laid out by Tainio, Albrecht, and Reams.

The NorCal Blend itself is right in range for BCSR , pH , CEC...After a year of growing in it , the exchangeable nutrients were still off the charts, in other words; no amendment required, just biology to access the exchangeable cache. When I added more soil on top and charged my new mounds, the soluble nutrients all went off the charts in the right ratio.

I do my blend a little different than the standard NorCal blend now and include some things that are trade secrets at this point.

I have been hovering around a sap pH of 6.2 to 6.4 , Brix of 18-22, because these two readings have been hovering in the perfect zones I haven't used any other meters this year.

Here is a recent pic of an Betsy plant.

 

[OptionDork]

ORP (Oxygen reduction potential) meter

I've heard some use an ORP meter when treating water with hydrogen peroxide.

 

[Dr. Purpur]

I've heard some use an ORP meter when treating water with hydrogen peroxide.

Well Thats their option Dork.... Im just kiddin bro! Stoned!

 

[ghostmade]

lol looks like reach for the sky got the trash can ready to be filled up wit dank!lol yall mofo can build a tree house in yall shit.keep up the good work

 

[Cep]

Getting your water tested is a great idea, especially if its coming from a well. A local lab does whats called an irrigation suitability test that comes with recommendations based on your results. My well water is less than ideal:

0.96meq/L Na, 2.99 Ca, 2.47 Mg, 3.70 HCO3, 0.31 Cl, 0.63 EC, 7.6 pH
K, P, NO3, SO4 & traces in negligible amounts

Units are in meq/L (milliequivalents/liter), every other country will do millimoles/liter but the U.S. is annoying like that. In the case of Calcium, 2.99 meq/L equates to 0.598 mg/L.
In every 1000 gallons of my full reservoir there are 2.26 grams of soluble Ca, which isn't too bad considering that I haven't used a whole lot of water this year (thank you mulch!). The Ca/Mg ratio is 1:1, which is a no no, but my soil base saturation is 7:1 in favor of Ca. Using this water in small amounts should be ok. It does have a high pH and the high bicarbonate value gives this water some buffering capacity. In other words it takes a lot more acid or base to cause a pH change than in pure water.

I'm no chemistry whiz, but having an idea of what is in my water is super helpful. If you have access to really high quality soil that is already 6.4 pH (it sounds like you guys in N Cali do) than you wouldn't want to be dumping pH 7.6 or higher water on it all season...

 

[furrywall11]

soil chemistry....meters....water...advanced cannabis cultivation techniques... so much to learn. I bet I could pick up a lot from reading this 500pg thread and taking notes, which I've started to do already, but anyone have a good rootsy book they can recommend? Mostly interested in the soil biology/chemistry bit....

 

[Veg N Out]

None of this is specific to cannabis , and is all actually gleaned from field agriculture.

Albrecht papers is a great place to start.

 

[Carlos Danger]

Listen to Veg. This man is driving the dank express into station because he's applying real world agricultural methods and thought to growing instead of the ridiculous grow myths surrounding cannabis. The more I hear people talking up soil testing and applying science the happier I am.

 

[OptionDork]

None of this is specific to cannabis , and is all actually gleaned from field agriculture.

It's only been fairly recently I've seen growers start to adapt general agriculture practices such as sap testing for pH, brix, etc. There's been some chatter about it for a few years on the forums for a bit and good to see it finally get the attention it deserves. One of the first things an ag consultant will do when taking on a new farm to manage is soil, plant tissue and sap analysis. If growers want to step up their game the only way to go IMO. Well...tissue testing will be a bit tough lol. The book Ask the Plant, which covers leaf and petiole testing, might be a good read for some.

I always thought canna growers were 'leading the way' until I got into modern ag practices then realized most were 'far behind'. It was a real eye opener.

 

[OptionDork]

Seems I can't edit yet.

There's a CD by Bruce Tainio that Acres puts out. Some of it covers the importance of sap testing. For the most part seems to be covered in this thread. He also covers the N:K ratio in wild herbs and general farmed plants and that was cool stuff.

If you wanna chat with someone cool call Bob Pike of Pike Agri Labs. He studied with Carey Reams. I had Bob test some wild herb samples when I first got into this.

From what I remember sap pH is good to use as a trending indicator and you see the shift before issues show up in the plant.

 

[Carlos Danger]

By the by, I've been reading Michael Philips' "The Holistic Orchard: Tree Fruits and Berries the Biological Way" and I think there's a lot of advice on maintaining system health and dealing with pests that carries over very nicely to the multiple big plants you norcal guys are growing. His ethos is definitely in line with most of us here