What's new
  • ICMag with help from Landrace Warden and The Vault is running a NEW contest in November! You can check it here. Prizes are seeds & forum premium access. Come join in!

The growing large plants, outdoors, thread...

Status
Not open for further replies.

Tom Hill

Well-known member
Veteran
Hi Bill,

That is the territory of thought that originally got my started with the giant breathing containers... As well as the introduction of H2O2 supplemented fertigations. The idea of hovering right there at optimum field saturation at all times is what I was after. I noticed that the average hydro farmer -with their ultra light mediums and near constant cycling- was growing circles around the average dirt farmer. I theorize that one of the reasons for this is the soils farmer basically throws away every 3rd day or so (depending on several factors) each time he waters, usually bringing the soil well beyond optimum saturation levels. Anybody whose tended plants grown in dirt for any length of time should notice the plant really starting to grow like banshees around the second day after watering, or thereabouts... Depending on soil density etc.

I'd guess the soil mix I'm using is at its optimum performance when it is holding approximately 70% of the amount of water it is capable of holding. One way to accomplish more time in this sweet zone is to break it up as you are suggesting.

If a 300 gallon container with an 8ft diameter plant in mid-July required 30 gallons of water every 3 days (say allowing it to reach 60% saturation before bringing it back up to 80%) then perhaps 10 gallons each day might be better still? Like that? It sounds good on paper and has worked well for me in the field too.

It is not without some kinks though, and is a bit difficult to fine tune. When I went that route, I found it necessary to do a deeper/"normal" watering at least occasionally. I guess what I am saying is that I never did fine tune it right, lol. But still, I do very much like the concept. -Tom
 

Tom Hill

Well-known member
Veteran
PS,

On pruning. I almost want to tell you all not to even do it. Build a plant from down low, wide soil, wide space, wide plant. Also, weighing down branches with foliar feedings and rinsing will handily accomplish the desired result. Clarke was right imo, leave it alone.

I've delved deeply into this in practice and I assure you time is much better spent elsewhere for the most part. It is OK to prune to an open center (topping at less than 10 nodes) during an indoor grow with a small plant but doing this with this type of grow is an unnecessary risk imo. With the open center, mega forces are working towards breaking large percentages of your stalk (and plant) away,, all really to zero advantage.

The other thing I am seeing lots of is terrible actual pruning cut location. Never ever leave even one centimeter of stem protruding from a pruning cut to sit there and rot, wasting much energy on a battle that was lost before we started. Always prune to cut right against a node up tight as an arborist does, and always in the morning and on a sunny day. This heals much faster and is much preferred. Don't be scared, get right up in there and cut it tight, see how beautifully/quickly it heals and knuckles-up. The node knows exactly what to do with a pruning cut - but the middle of a stem hasn't a clue. -T
 

reservationlabs

Active member
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Never ever leave even one centimeter of stem protruding from a pruning cut to sit there and rot, wasting much energy on a battle that was lost before we started. Always prune to cut right against a node up tight as an arborist does, and always in the morning and on a sunny day. This heals much faster and is much preferred. Don't be scared, get right up in there and cut it tight, see how beautifully/quickly it heals and knuckles-up. The node knows exactly what to do with a pruning cut - but the middle of a stem hasn't a clue. -T

Excellent bit of information. Thank You for sharing this.
 
Tom, thanks a ton for the food for thought... As much as I'd love to do some tests with various watering methods out there, the plot of land is an hour or so from me, and the partner who lives in the area has a couple banged up feet so I'd feel bad for asking him to mix it up a bit on different plants for me.. What I'd also like to convince him of is letting me throw out a couple of these in 100 gal smart pots for a comparison.. I can probably convince him of the extra aeration being beneficial idea pretty easily. .I think his main concern with them was them being too visible but I don't think he's realized at the time that by the time the plants are worth anything they'd be wider than the pots anyway and probably not all that visible at all.. I think watering wise we'll do something along the lines of 3 days a week once the july heat hits and the plants are quite a bit bigger.. I imagine June will be pretty laid back and only require water twice a week tops considering their size and it's not super hot in June around here yet..

Anyway, thanks again for your insight!
BB
 

nomaad

Active member
Veteran
OK boys... sockets. Found em online. They can ship em from their Cali warehouse and they would arrive in the 707 on Friday or Monday... probably have to pay expedited shipping. I ordered an extra 30 or so...

anyhow... here is the link... I called them and had them expedite shipping. They claim that it will go out tomorrow form their cali warehouse and arrive by monday.

There is no pic of the socket on their website, but there IS on the amazon page I originally found it on. The model number is also consistent with various other listings for the product with pics. I guess I am the guinea pig. I will let u know when they arrive and if they are indeed the right thing.
 

localhero

Member
Great find nomaad, too late for me tho, i already got the rubber outdoor ones that u have to twist connect and silicone. now if there were lamp shade/reflectors somewhere out there for us who have neighbors... I got lucky at hemp depot and wrangled a deal on all their clamp lamps(the crappy ones used as shop lights or whatever with the aluminum reflector shade). for some reason the aluminum shades were all bent and beat up, so i talked them down from $5 per to 2.50. the shades hang perfectly on the sockets. that covered all but 4 lights. for the rest i was thinking of beautifully hand crafting light shades out of super heavy duty aluminum foil. spray painting all of them with camo paint so they dont shine like beacons.

Seriously though, if there was a way to order just the damn aluminum shades... now i feel shitty about throwing away a pile of crappy sockets/cords/clamps from the gutted clamp lamps.
 

nomaad

Active member
Veteran
lh: been thinkin on the same thing... my lights come on at 2:30 AM rather than after it gets dark. less likely to bother neighbors on the nights that i don't close the curtains... which is most nights. Now the 22 bulbs on the big pots... its gonna get real bright, real fast out here. reflectors will help. I was thinking about using some kind of opaque plastic bowl from the W or the K. cheapo.

it was snowing for a while today... anybody know when its gonna get hot and sunny for the rest of the season?
 

baet

Member
Tom,

very helpful information regarding topping for outdoors, i've been weary about it for the past few days and trying to decide wether to top a few of my plants currently indoors getting ready for may/june. i know my indoors friends top almost everything, and i've topped a few plants for an indoor, and the bushy flat canopy of kolas work very well for indoors especially when we've got a horizontally hung light source that doesn't move and have the penetration of the sun.

i read butte's pruning/topping step by step, and was going to chop heads tomorrow morning.. now i'll just worry about the termite colony, and hope the nematodes kick some ass.

and i understand topping and buttes techniques obviously work very well for him, but he's also been from the looks of it doing outdoor monsters for years. i think i'll let the plant do it's thing and just stick with LST and welded wire cages like i usually do.
 

HorseMouth

Active member
I know I'm late on the Draw. Heres my solution to termites/mites.

Love these Eco Gardening Guys. I get this into the mix early!




Here's my amendments for the year.





A Raised Bed, With the Black Box frame over it. Going to use a Good wide SoG screen between the log posts. Got the 2 Diesel's ready to go for May. Going to Black Box starting July 1st to Aug 10th. Then let the season take them to the end of Sept.. Hopefully





Dimension on the Box, 6' X 14'.
Everything's been mixed now for a few days. Just got dumped on yesterday. Love watching that turned soil get worked. Greenhouse looks great too.

GL all! Thanks for all the help!
 

HorseMouth

Active member
Sry for the double post.

Here's what I use for outdoor soil water/ph testing.

Brand Name is Control Wizard. 18' metal probe. VERY ACCURATE!



Hope that helps determining when to water, when to lay off for a day.
 

nomaad

Active member
Veteran
interesting pH meter... i'd love something analog... but the 3-way meter i tried to use last year was totally useless.
 

Dr. Purpur

Custom Haze crosses
Veteran
Sry for the double post.

Here's what I use for outdoor soil water/ph testing.

Brand Name is Control Wizard. 18' metal probe. VERY ACCURATE!



Hope that helps determining when to water, when to lay off for a day.
Hey Man! I got the same thing! I love that probe. Best I ever had. Gotta make sure and clean the probe tip with scotch brite often. I think I paid 60 for mine.
picture.php


I use it for both Indoor and Outdoor. It works great for moisture, I dont pay attention to the pH it reads, although it looks pretty close
 

Dr. Purpur

Custom Haze crosses
Veteran
I used to overwater. I dont anymore. I keep the plants in the sweet spot, waterwise. Now my growing has improved
 

HorseMouth

Active member
Great! Thanks for the back-up on this Dr.Purpur.

I love this water/ph probe. Don't let her sit for more then 10 minutes in the dirt, and a good cleaning goes a long way.

I went for this one b/c of the metal probe and the depth I can sink it too.

I spent around 60 dollars as well. Just to confirm, I do NOT measure ph of water with this. just soil/ground.
 

mister c

Member
What NPK of steamed bonemeal are you dudes using?

Seeing a lot of 3-15-0 and some 5-5-5. I am guessing that it is the 3-15-0 though?

I am speaking of "the tom mix" to clarify a lil bit...

Peace of mind seems to be a popular choice.
 

Dr. Purpur

Custom Haze crosses
Veteran
Oh I think Tom grinds his bone/blood meal from scratch. It consists of "would be" patch robbers. LOL
 
Purpur, I don't know if you're doing any more than that one monster hole you have pics of earlier, but if you are, check out feed stores if you're anywhere near the country because you can get bone meal in bulk(at least where I am) in 50 lb bags for around $20.. Lots of nurseries around here sell 20 lb bags but they're around $16-$18.. huge price difference, obviously..

Also, does anyone have a link to butte's topping method? I've searched for all posts started by him and don't see any topics regarding pruning or topping that I've seen mentioned a few times in this thread.. I'm assuming it's buried somewhere in the middle of a bigger thread with an un-related name.. Even just the name of the thread topic would be helpful..

Thanks

BB
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top