The Deth, Big Sur Holy Weed... Elite as FUck

[OregonBorn]

great read man. thanks for sharing. what are smells for original holy weed? is it sandalwood, spice and grapes?

I cannot recall off hand. I got the original beans in a lid over 40 years ago now. I have it in my notes that it was later blooming, all purple from the start of flowering, and large as plants go. The notes also only indicate the high, what I paid, where/who I got it from and not the terps. Few got any mention of terps in my old notes when I saved the seeds unless they were particularly unusual. The last time I grew this strain there was an early frost, and so I turned the not mature purple buds all into ice hash. So I cannot tell from the hash how it smelled. Nor was it cured well. Since then I have switched to long cool curing and making frozen sifted hash from the colas in the year following. Then I freeze the hash powder. That retains all the terps and highs the best that I have found.

 

[OregonBorn]

Oregonborn, any chance you have a few photos to show of your zactecas? I am just curious how it looks especially compared to the bshw we see.

Wish I had photos of it. It was the last plant in the GH that year and it froze. Looked like hell then. Not photogenic. I also only had old film cameras then. I have since switched to digital Nikons. But with that, I have had my digital photos "lifted" by seed companies from forums like this one, so I do not post many photos any more. I need to get a watermark system before I post more photos.

 

[Breadwizard]

Here's the furthest along BSHW/BSHB seedling, combining the Coastal line with the Bodhi line. Very wide leaf presenting at this stage, but I was rather expecting that. I've got a few F2's that may be showing a bit thinner, but hard to tell when they are so young. Great discussion we've got going on here, I hope these still have some of that Holy weed magic in them.

 

[OregonBorn]

Oregonborn is a friend and someone I believe. I am not sure yet what I am growing this spring, It may be the 14-16 wk Durban Poison I have or the Citrus Farmer or both. Or that intriguing Santa Marta I found a while ago.

I have to say it is humbling to look in the closet and see more than 25 strains to choose from when pondering a bowl. The DP x CB was a success I think.

Ah, good that the DP-CB was a success. I have yet to grow Citrus Farmer. I have some beans for it though. You still growing Orca? Or was it Ortega?

 

[Limeygreen]

Let me dig up some bshw pictures and see what you think compared to what you remember, I am fairly certain of your response but maybe some similarities will pop up?

 

[Shmavis]

OregonBorn I take it you are BigSur/Malvedes from 420 Mag?

Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experiences. I was surprised to read that S.A.G.E. was supposedly a Haze x Afghani. The BBoB lists it as BSHW x Afghani, as well as all other descriptions I had previously read. But looking at the book you referenced it states, “While the Haze x Afghan parentage of S.A.G.E. is widely accepted, some growers claim S.A.G.E. exhibits many characteristics of Big Sur Holy, a much-loved rare cannabis variety from the central coast of California that was popular in the late 1970s.”

To add to the confusion, for me, is that Adam Dunn is not the breeder but rather Mojave Richmond. Who having grown up in Big Sur/L.A. area left for Amsterdam in the early ‘90s (I think) taking along seeds from the area and in Amsterdam became friends with Adam.

So maybe the key to the confusion really is within the genetic makeup of S.A.G.E. And your idea of two versions of S.A.G.E. seems to have merit. There’s members here who know Mojave personally… would be of great interest to hear of the genetic lineage of the maternal side of S.A.G.E. But if you read pages 20-21 in the link below it states that several years *after* he created S.A.G.E., he created Big Sur Holy…

https://issuu.com/dopemag/docs/wa_de..._holiday_issue

Now that there makes no sense.

But the rabbit hole just goes deeper when reading the Big Sur Holy entry in “Cannabis Pharmacy” which states:

“GENETICS: Bred from Zacatecan Purple, Guerreran and Oaxacan Highland, Colombian, Thai and 1970s Afghani genetics. Narrow leafleted.”

“TYPE: Type I hybrid, leaning toward narrow-leafleted.”

“From these crosses emerged several cultivars, that became known collectively as Big Sur Holy.”

There’s also an interesting writeup about who might’ve first started growing Zac Purple in Big Sur, complete with mention of a nearby monastery. For those interested, “Cannabis Pharmacy” can be read here:

https://zenspace.us/wp-content/uploa...s-Pharmacy.pdf

Anyway, fun stuff!

 

[Shmavis]

I did get some pics last Sunday, day 35. If nothing else, I think they show #4 edging out the others for resin levels.

From #1 - #7:

Interested to see them a month from now...

 

[Shmavis]

MAHA KALA You asked about stem coloring. Thought you might be interested in this. Cuts of #1 are really showing some. Others to a lesser degree. All in same soil mix and environment. First pic is #1, second is #2 for comparison. Going with my gut and attempting to start the reversal process on a cut of #1 this weekend.

 

[Limeygreen]

@shamvis
Looking sexy I would like to make babies with her if I was you too.

 

[Shmavis]

Limeygreen Thanks man. She’s most certainly making babies, even if only with her brother (yikes!)

If I might ask - my curiosity insists - were your purple beauties sourced privately, or through a publicly known and available source? They sure look to be sporting a good deal of purple.

I do not have a cut of #3; and I hope it doesn’t haunt me.

#3, day 40:

I think #6 has surprised the most, so far. Only #1 was numbered before sex was confirmed. The rest, by appeal at the time. #6 rooted nicely and while more ‘Ghan leaning, is making her own case for attention.

#6, day 40:

 

[OregonBorn]

But the rabbit hole just goes deeper when reading the Big Sur Holy entry in “Cannabis Pharmacy” which states:

“GENETICS: Bred from Zacatecan Purple, Guerreran and Oaxacan Highland, Colombian, Thai and 1970s Afghani genetics. Narrow leafleted.”

“TYPE: Type I hybrid, leaning toward narrow-leafleted.”

“From these crosses emerged several cultivars, that became known collectively as Big Sur Holy.”

There’s also an interesting writeup about who might’ve first started growing Zac Purple in Big Sur, complete with mention of a nearby monastery. For those interested, “Cannabis Pharmacy” can be read here:

https://zenspace.us/wp-content/uploa...s-Pharmacy.pdf

Anyway, fun stuff!

Well, there are a lot of piled on stuff out there about BSHW. So much to wade through. There is the really old and state (and pure BS IMO) story of Perry the monk who dragged Zac Purple back from Mexico in 1965 and planted it at a monastery in Big Sur. But the Catholic Church considers weed a sin to this day, so they would not have allowed it. Some claim that he planted it at Esalen, but I was at Esalen a lot every summer in the late 1960s through the early 1980s (the baths there opened to the public at midnight) and there was no weed growing there that I saw. I also lived there for a while on an internship/scholarship. There was plenty of weed growing in other places along the coast, but none that I saw there. Or at Tassahara if he was a Zen Monk. I was also there a lot in summer at the hot springs. There was also a story floating around about a guy named Danny or Denny I think it was, that brought Zac Purple back to Lucia. But it could have been any number of hippies that dragged smaller amounts of weed back from Mexico (the likes of myself), or any number of importers that hauled it up there by the truckload. They planted the zac purple beans, and whallah!

Jerry Kamstra died in late 2019. So we cannot ask him any more. However, he spelled the origins of BSHW out very clearly in his book Weed in multiple places. And to that effect, the origin of BSHW: On page 155 in the Bantam 1975 edition of WEED, he has a paragraph about Zacatacas Purple, in which states specifically: "In the late sixties, a beatnik dealer planted a crop using some Zacatecas Purple seeds in the mountains of Big Sur. The resultant weed came to be known as Big Sur Holy Weed, and holy it was, too." Jerry also lists Zacatecas Purple in the glossary at the end of the book, under Purple and again under Zacatecas Purple. Under Purple on page 274 (Purple was what we called it in the later 1970s), he talks about where it comes from, and specifically: "Zacatecas Purple is distinguished by seeds that turn purple, or a rich reddish purple color when the weed is dry."

So connect the dots... BSHW was pure Zac Purple, a landrace from the state of Zacatecas, Mexico planted in the mountains of the South Coast (The Lucia Mountains) by a hippie (Jerry calls him a beatnik) in the late 1960s. Not a sativa indica hybrid as the seed peddlers and so called 'expert' references want to convey. The indica hybrid called SAGE from that area in the later 1970s in my experience was a hybrid cross of BSHW sativa x Afghani indica. SAGE: Sativa Afghani Genetic Equalibrium. Zac purple was a narrow leaf sativa like all the other landrace Mexican strains. Now if you can find a reference for Big Sur Holy Weed before 1974 when Weed was first published, I would like to see it. I never saw or heard any earlier reference. Again, we just called it Purple there on the South Coast. Or Big Sur Purple outside of that area. And it had tiny purple seeds. The only pot that I ever saw with purple seeds, actually.

BTW: Jerry's obit is here online: https://scmemorial.com/tribute/detai.../obituary.html

 

[romanoweed]

is it, is it, purple Haze?
hahaha i know there was no purple Haze, but who knows, probably was his Strain of Choice (the purple),
probably his imagination (purple imagination)

 

[Limeygreen]

OregonBorn Hope to one day see you growing her again, sounds like some very nice herb. Great to hear some history that matches up with what I have heard in the past.

 

[Shmavis]

OregonBorn Many thanks for joining the discussion and sharing. I had originally planned to share this grow in Charles’ sub-forum but chose to do so here in hopes of such a discussion taking place. The (online) stories are murky, to say the least. I have also read of BSHW going by the nickname of "Trip."

The references I have read of the ‘Perry’ version is that he was a Buddhist Monk, doubt it makes a difference though. I wonder if the “Danny” story you’re trying to recall is the Danbo from whom Charles acquired the line. It makes sense that it’s likely an earlier version of S.A.G.E.

I agree with Limeygreen, would be great to see you share some pics should you get the watermark issue squared away and have an opportunity to grow some out.

 

[MAHA KALA]

MAHA KALA You asked about stem coloring. Thought you might be interested in this. Cuts of #1 are really showing some. Others to a lesser degree. All in same soil mix and environment. First pic is #1, second is #2 for comparison. Going with my gut and attempting to start the reversal process on a cut of #1 this weekend.

very nice it is such half purple or red. it will be tasty. I found green pheno to be the most interesting. but last time from cuts she also showed some colored stems, buds stayed green. I separated seeds from my two plants which had the most colorful buds, I will dig into it more. they were the smallest and bushy.

plants look nice Shmavis. good job.

 

[star crash]

Here’s The Big South Pump

 

[OregonBorn]

OregonBorn Many thanks for joining the discussion and sharing. I had originally planned to share this grow in Charles’ sub-forum but chose to do so here in hopes of such a discussion taking place. The (online) stories are murky, to say the least. I have also read of BSHW going by the nickname of "Trip."

The references I have read of the ‘Perry’ version is that he was a Buddhist Monk, doubt it makes a difference though. I wonder if the “Danny” story you’re trying to recall is the Danbo from whom Charles acquired the line. It makes sense that it’s likely an earlier version of S.A.G.E.

I agree with Limeygreen, would be great to see you share some pics should you get the watermark issue squared away and have an opportunity to grow some out.
[/QUOTE

I never heard of it being called "Trip". Only "Purple". And yes, Danbo or Danebo. The guy from Lucia. Here the BSHW stories blend, as at Lucia there is a Benedictine Monastery where they make fruitcake (yuck!). I recall a guy telling me about that place in the hot tubs one night at Esalen. As for Perry being a Zen Buddhist monk? The Buddhists would have been more tolerant of growing it than the Catholics. There were always a lot of Zen monks with shaved heads wearing red robes floating around Esalen. But they were not materialistic, and it is a long ways from the Zen retreat at Tassajara. Tassajara is not far from Big Sur as the crow flies, maybe all of 10 miles. But those are really steep mountains to hike through (I have done it) and to get there by road its about 70 miles up the coast and way back out winding Carmel Valley. The Tassahjara Zen retreat is where a hot springs are and they are open to the public from Memorial Day to Labor Day. They are famous for making bread there. I doubt that they ever grew any weed there. I never saw any growing there. Bread and fruitcake... not BSHW.

BSHW could have been brought in and grown anywhere along the South Coast, from Garrapata to Pacific Valley and inland on any of the side roads there. Similarly with the SAGE bred from BSHW. Up until 1980 that stuff was still obtainable and only known and accessible to us locals for cheap at around $80-100 an oz. Then the suitcases full of money came flooding in from the east coast and prices skyrocketed for what would became known as, "lawyer weed". Local early Big Sur strains became lost in the money stampede. Now that growing is legal in California, no one there in the Big Sur area has these old strains. Or the ones that were grown there later even under different names.

As for posting stuff here, this site keeps locking up on me for some reason. Ever since they updated the forum tools here. So I am not posting here much. Too frustrating.

 

[Shmavis]

I never heard of it being called "Trip". Only "Purple". And yes, Danbo or Danebo. The guy from Lucia. Here the BSHW stories blend, as at Lucia there is a Benedictine Monastery where they make fruitcake (yuck!). I recall a guy telling me about that place in the hot tubs one night at Esalen. As for Perry being a Zen Buddhist monk? The Buddhists would have been more tolerant of growing it than the Catholics. There were always a lot of Zen monks with shaved heads wearing red robes floating around Esalen. But they were not materialistic, and it is a long ways from the Zen retreat at Tassajara. Tassajara is not far from Big Sur as the crow flies, maybe all of 10 miles. But those are really steep mountains to hike through (I have done it) and to get there by road its about 70 miles up the coast and way back out winding Carmel Valley. The Tassahjara Zen retreat is where a hot springs are and they are open to the public from Memorial Day to Labor Day. They are famous for making bread there. I doubt that they ever grew any weed there. I never saw any growing there. Bread and fruitcake... not BSHW.

BSHW could have been brought in and grown anywhere along the South Coast, from Garrapata to Pacific Valley and inland on any of the side roads there. Similarly with the SAGE bred from BSHW. Up until 1980 that stuff was still obtainable and only known and accessible to us locals for cheap at around $80-100 an oz. Then the suitcases full of money came flooding in from the east coast and prices skyrocketed for what would became known as, "lawyer weed". Local early Big Sur strains became lost in the money stampede. Now that growing is legal in California, no one there in the Big Sur area has these old strains. Or the ones that were grown there later even under different names.

As for posting stuff here, this site keeps locking up on me for some reason. Ever since they updated the forum tools here. So I am not posting here much. Too frustrating.

I have come across BSHW referred to as ‘Trip’ on other forums as well as here. Regarding IC, the search function in totally screwed now with the update, not that it was ever great to begin with, but now I cannot even bring up threads I know to exist. Anyway, wanted to point you to a thread about Trip x DJ Short Blueberry that Chimera offered, I think ~2005. Trip is said to be BSHW. ****finder also lists BSHW as aka Trip. Appears that must’ve been a nickname that came in later decades. But applies to BSHW, or actually S.A.G.E., hmmm.

Fruitcake, lol. As a non-picky eater come the holiday season fruitcake is avoided, because, yeah - yuck!

Curious as to your thoughts about Limeygreen’s plants. Too tightly structured for any semblance of what you recall? Looks to be a good deal of purple, but of course that’s not a conclusive indicator.

Understandable about sharing pics. It IS a major pain in the ass right now. The last set I shared took me way too long and I wasn’t even able to sign off at the bottom… Hopefully it gets easier and you’re able to share some.

Thanks again for the backstories.

 

[Shmavis]

very nice it is such half purple or red. it will be tasty. I found green pheno to be the most interesting. but last time from cuts she also showed some colored stems, buds stayed green. I separated seeds from my two plants which had the most colorful buds, I will dig into it more. they were the smallest and bushy.

plants look nice Shmavis. good job.

Thanks MAHA - means a lot coming from you. They are doing OK despite my missteps. These will be the first plants I finish under HID after a nearly five year absence. I have almost killed a couple of them by misjudging their need for water. Got used to the lesser frequency of watering under LED only to be harshly reminded of the difference under HID.

I think these will stay mostly green as well with the possible exception of #1. Will be interesting to see how the cuts compare to the seed plants. #1 smells absolutely phenomenal. None of the others come close. A very mentholated/eucalyptus nose. I would describe #2 as more of a hashy-lemony nose. The rest, varying degrees of spice. One (can’t recall which now) has a bit of the menthol on the backend. I had no plans to run any plants outdoors this year as I will busy this spring but have to make an exception for #1 - and possibly #2, but no more, dammit!

If #2 smokes good she would make a good production plant - looks as though she’ll yield the most and will finish first. I noticed that Bodhi’s version lists as 7-8 weeks to finish and Reef’s as 8-9 weeks. How often do we find plants that finish within the advertised timeframe? Rarely for me but I won’t be surprised to find #2 ready at 8wks. Here she is at day 46:

#7 was the runt of the bunch and overall has seemed to lack vigor. The cut of her grew rather funky. I did not keep it.

#7, day 47:

Will try to get some pics of #5 tonight or tomorrow. She's definitely the outlier. Leaf shape and flower structure much different than the rest. Very little resin. Very little aroma wise.

 

[Shmavis]

Some looks at #5, day 49:

Quite a different look from #1:

Happened upon an interesting article that mentions BSHW, S.A.G.E., and Purple. Supposedly S.A.G.E. is from a line known as 'Chamba' (?)

Here's a link to the article:

https://www.montereyherald.com/2018...ty-strains-discussed-at-cannabis-summit-talk/