The best part about organics is all the waste, the virtue signaling, the techno babble and the ripoff artists. AKA I read da labels pt 6

[KIS]

I would never buy KIS or BAS soil. Both are very overpriced and overrated. You almost have to mix your own if your going to grow that way.

In the original comment, the person is talking about Black Swallow Living Soils. We (KIS) formulated a mix with them a number of years ago, but we are not making or selling that soil mix. As for the cost of the soil at KIS Organics, I figure that's worth addressing. First off, yes you can absolutely mix your own soil for less. When I first started in the industry that's why we began offering organic amendments. It was because I wanted to mix soils and experiment but you couldn't find anything under 50 lbs bags and I only needed a few lbs of each amendment. I fully support anyone who wants to mix their own soils. Shipping can be a total deal breaker too, soil is heavy and expensive to ship.

Now I've learned a lot over the past 15-20 years since starting KiS Organics and doing the podcast. When I first started I used online recipes and guessed at quantities. One thing I learned quickly is that online recipes are not accurate because everyone has a different compost source and you really need to formulate around the compost that you're using. Now when I formulate a soil for commercial production, it takes me about 2 years on average. That's how long it took for the Black Swallow Mix, and about how long it's taken now in Australia for a mix we are going to release soon. This is because there's a lot of testing that goes into it. You have to test every input for heavy metals and fertility (this is expensive). And then you need to mix a base soil and get the ratios right for optimal physical and biological properties. Then you soil test repeatedly to get the chemical/mineral ratios correct. And finally you need to run plant trials to make sure the soil tests are reflected in plant growth.

I cannot speak to Buildasoil or their process or pricing. I can only talk about KiS Organics. I know the folks that use our soils vs making their own do so either to save time or they like our data driven approach and want to know their soil will perform and is low in heavy metals. A lot of it goes to commercial facilities because we work closely with them on testing and analysis.

So yes, I totally get it if you feel it's too expensive, especially when you add in shipping costs to folks that are far away from us. But I do believe we have the highest quality commercially available soil on the market. I'd put it up against anything else out there.

 

[KIS]

would like to do a side by side grow with the usual lowe's pro-mix omri organic soil mix and pro-mix omri 7-3-3/4-4-8 poop pellets versuz black swallow tad hussey KIS mix soil (twice the cost of the pro-mix soil) and black swallow 4-4-4 pellets (same price as the pro-mix ferts)

the cheapest organic pro-mix option vs the expensive artisanal living soil option. will be fun to see the differences side by side in a grow

Please share your results! One thing to keep in mind is they will have slightly different physical properties (water holding capacity) so you may need to water them differently.

 

[Ca++]

How many liters in a 50 liter bag. That's the golden question. I have never had 42. I just measured out canna's clay balls, and got the same 38L I was getting decades ago. Should we expect an answer from them? It's surely not allowed

 

[Orange's Greenhouse]

To get back on topic but is this highly marketed esoteric stuff any different than mineral fertilizers in bottles with lascivious women?

 

[phunkeeboodah]

Please share your results! One thing to keep in mind is they will have slightly different physical properties (water holding capacity) so you may need to water them differently.

thanks i just grow in a closet in a rubbermaid tote no holes all plants in the same soil. if/when i do this will just put a piece of cardboard down the middle of the tote to separate the soil mixtures

 

[hillbil]

I buy a lot of organic stuff September or later as Organics are always marked down then, from big box stores

 

[foomar]

The only media i ever used that contains the stated volume in actual use are the 100 litre compressed bales of irish erin peat.
Everything else has been way under by 20% or more when filling pots as its loose and fluffed up by design in the bag to maximise profits .
If clay balls and perlite or any incompressible product are sold short by volume it is actual fraud.

 

[Hiddenjems]

One thing to watch for is heavy metals. Might be worth getting it lab tested to make sure you're not bringing in a lot of arsenic or cadmium or lead.

This. I grow with pro grade salts and use zero pesticides. We smoke a lot of weed in my house, about a zip every 3 days or so. I don’t want poisoned by my own product.

I have no idea how people push some shit out the door to other people either.

 

[Rgd]

the BEST thing for me..[a long long time hydro guy]

was
ignoring the organic complexities that get posted everywhere that just discouraged me

and

just used promix/several 20L bags of warm casting and enough hen pellets to worry if its too much
wet everything
let its cook until it cooled down
load tubs with plants
and just use water from then on.,

sure ... use kelp/guano/potassium sulphate/and any of that cool stuff if you have it
but the easy simple way has changed my growing life..

if I had to wait until I had all those [awesome]products and the right ratio I would never have found how easy organic is

 

[flower~power]

So all these years I was thinking that the 3 ft.³ compressed bale of a pro mix is not actually 3 ft.³?

 

[Rgd]

So all these years I was thinking that the 3 ft.³ compressed bale of a pro mix is not actually 3 ft.³?

and a dollar ain’t a dollar any more

the horror

 

[KIS]

So all these years I was thinking that the 3 ft.³ compressed bale of a pro mix is not actually 3 ft.³?

No, it's not. The 3.8 cubic ft bales they claim will double when uncompressed but I've found 5 cubic ft is usually closer to what you end up with when you fluff it all out and measure with a 5 gal bucket.

 

[Stuntzii]

As someone already stated; not getting bamboozled by hyped overpriced organic amendments is part of the learning curve (this could be said for any product related to growing really).

I think the heart of growing with organics should be using things that would other wise be thrown out or unused. Manures, feathers, bones, kitchen scraps ect.

This should be a positive for the environment but it might not be as straight forward as some organics are mined or transported long distances (weighing more than synthetic ferts often).

It’s up to the grower to be educated and figure out why you need something, and if the results that it gives can be achieved with a cheaper more sustainable source.

 

[Ca++]

Bugbee recently commented on how bad organic is for the environment. The penny kinda drops, when you look how unsustainable it is. We couldn't all feed ourselves that way. No level of intensity actually works in the grand scheme of things. It's a floored ideology. It's inefficient use of mined material, is wasting finite resources.

 

[MROrganicGreenz]

Bugbee recently commented on how bad organic is for the environment. The penny kinda drops, when you look how unsustainable it is. We couldn't all feed ourselves that way. No level of intensity actually works in the grand scheme of things. It's a floored ideology. It's inefficient use of mined material, is wasting finite resources.

Thats bs and there is no evidence for that Pretty low effort in debunking that. Maybe go and search for own info

 

[Hiddenjems]

Thats bs and there is no evidence for that Pretty low effort in debunking that. Maybe go and search for own info

It takes less electricity to produce the same amount of product with hydroponics and salts than organic. I’m plugged almost directly to a coal fire for juice.

I don’t produce a product loaded with heavy metals and pesticides either.

 

[chilliwilli]

Bugbee recently commented on how bad organic is for the environment. The penny kinda drops, when you look how unsustainable it is. We couldn't all feed ourselves that way. No level of intensity actually works in the grand scheme of things. It's a floored ideology. It's inefficient use of mined material, is wasting finite resources.

Yeah has nothing to do with athena being a sponsor of him.
Unsustainable is how we do it and not organics per say. Using meals that otherwise feed livestock is a big wast of resources. Better feed it and use the poo f.e.

 

[MROrganicGreenz]

It takes less electricity to produce the same amount of product with hydroponics and salts than organic. I’m plugged almost directly to a coal fire for juice.

I don’t produce a product loaded with heavy metals and pesticides either.

This makes no sense at all. What are you talking about? Whats up with all that anectdotal evidence. No data, just opinion. You going from: "Organic in gerneral is worst" to "I have a box in my garage that works just fine". Please reconsider your statements and go outside and see the world.

 

[Hiddenjems]

This makes no sense at all. What are you talking about? Whats up with all that anectdotal evidence. No data, just opinion. You going from: "Organic in gerneral is worst" to "I have a box in my garage that works just fine". Please reconsider your statements and go outside and see the world.

So you’re saying organic farming produces more product per square foot indoors than hydroponics and salts?

 

[MROrganicGreenz]

First u talk about organic in General and how we cant feed the people. Now u talking about grams a square meter. What the heck is the basis of statement?