The 2020 Presidential Election

[NEW ENGLAND]

I think Bernie did a poor job of explaining how it could work. Zeez pretty much explained it. On Canada if you look up the stats, you see lower costs and lower taxes [however military costs have some bearing in the US]. Some provinces use a sliding scale for charging a monthly premium (eg. $15 to $200/month) which seems quite functional.

My father who served in the US Navy, ended up living in Canada. He got stage 4 colon cancer and the VA said they could bury him for free. The Canadian system hospitalized him, diagnosed and began immediate treatment at over 80 years old. He was cured and provided follow up care until he died at 95; regular ct scans, MRIs, blood tests. He paid not one cent.

The Democrats are stupid for not acknowledging that private insurance can work alongside universal coverage.

If I go into a hospital, I'd rather be looked at as a person rather than my ability to pay.

I do agree it is disgusting the strain on any system placed by people who do not care for their health. Maybe the food propaganda is somewhat to blame.

Sorry that happened to your dad,and glad he ended up getting the treatment he deserved,and earned.
I can assure you if you walk into a hospital the nurses that will care for you have no idea what insurance you have or care.Not saying Hospital administration wont care.But the people you see at bedside dont care about your financial status,I have never let that interfere with my patients,I treat everyone the same.

 

[Zeez]

You've got about the best deal there is. Tough to beat. When I lived in Europe that's exactly the way it was there.

I don't think you are cynical at all. Very reality based I would say.

Bottom line for me is I like the healthcare I have,I have 0 co-pays for primary care vists,0 co-pays for the ER,a three tier prescription plan,$5,$10,or $25 for top tier even if its chemo.I can see any DR in the country.

I really dont want to have the government control any more of my life than they already do.I like controlling my own care.I worked for it.


As you know I work in a Hospital and the abuse of the system we see day in and day out...ugh I guess I have become cynical.

If the government wants to trim the fat in other places like subsidising rebel factions around the planet maybe they could have a healthcare system for those who want to opt in.I am not on board for 1penny of my money going towards some of these elective procedures,to put it nicely.
I cant imagine the government can do better for me,than I do for myself

 

[Cannavore]

Ok so let's say I pay 25% of my gross annual income in taxes,under a socialist government run healthcare system would I still keep 75% of the income i work for?

If that's the case then I'll look into it further,I have been under the impression the government would tax me more to pay for others.

medicare for all isn't government run health care. the VA is government run health care.

chances are you're paying a $5-$10k premium cost for private insurance now (and if you're not, that's pretty much the average of what the middle class is paying), plus possible co-payments, deductibles and other out of pocket costs.

medicare for all simply removes the middle man (insurance companies) from the equation so more of your money goes directly into the system instead of administrative costs, ect. while still being able to choose whichever doctor or hostpital you'd like.

cliff notes - although you'd be taxed for health care, on paper your tax % will be higher, on avg you'd overall be paying less than what you do now, and so would employers because the costs of premiums and all other private fees paid to insurance companies would not exist.

the US pays the highest prices in the world for health care while our outcomes are no different than countries with "socialist health care". and those systems cover every man woman and child in the country. so they pay less, and cover every one.

 

[White Beard]

Actually my thoughts of where the country is heading doesnt really depend on who wins in 2020.More so just speculation of the future of the states in general.The media portrays the states in RED & BLUE.However,it really wasnt that long ago the states were divided into BLUE & GREY.
I fear that our country is so divided,that the lines of states could make a serious difference for certain members of society.Irregardless of who wins,Americans are so divided on so many issues,illegal imagration,Abortion,Sanctuary Cities,and the list goes on.

I cant imagine if Bernie won,not that I dislike him by any means.I actually think he is trying to make America better.But I cant imagine middle america,going along with alot of the democratic ideas,for instance doing away with Private Insurance,paying a hell of alot more taxes to cover every person on American soil,I mean the list of gripes go on.I think citizens would revolt against our government.

On the other side I feel if sanctuary cities are denied federal funding,illegal immigrants and families are rounded up and deported,Roe V Wade is overturned,and so many other issues.Those who embrace those values would revolt.


People want free speech on one hand,on the other people want political correctness.You cant hold a door for a women or refer to individuals with pronouns such as him/her,he/she.
Damn I dont know what an old fart like me would do these days if I were single,I would be afraid to ask a woman to dinner in fear I may end up on a sex offender registry.

I know Trump is a loud mouth ass but he cant be blamed for all of it,maybe for condoning it from the office he holds
But he didnt put the feelings inside of people,they've been there all along.
He's given the other half the platform to say what they have felt for a long time.To say that he has instilled hate is giving him too much credit.

Unfortunately I think it's gone too far for America to truly be the United States.People are emboldened in their way of thinking,and how they feel.
We are more the Divided states of America , and the media just keeps throwing fuel on the fire,they are just as bad as trump

God bless us all !

Sorry, I didn’t mean to dismiss or minimize your points.

You are completely correct, this is the most divided the nation has been since the Slaver rebellion. It is bone-deep and it’s serious: I have long hoped it would never come back to a fratricidal war, but GOP hegemony in Congress has made it bold and given it bigger teeth.

The problem isn’t that we need a Clarifying Event, it’s that clarifying events are intensely difficult to go through: a significant period of national insanity would be tough to ride through, but it seems to be what’s on the table.

That event could be anything, but would have to GET EVERYBODY’S ATTENTION. To do that, it would have to cut through / dispel / resolve enough of the deliberate attention-scatterers built into culture to be seen and heard.

An undeniable verifiable public miracle, a formal alien contact, a comet strike, Russian interference with our power grid, nuclear war, Jesus finally showing back up, sabotage of our banks and financial institutions, a war between residents to determine which way the nation will or won’t go. Some of them are more immediately likely than others.

The division as I see it is over who’s wrong

I mean, the news is that one side has been shamelessly lying their guts out for generations and are genuinely up to no good for regular folks. The ones behind it are not patriots, they are out to recreate us as a significantly different nation, for their benefit and at our expense.

I can tell you from 60+ years doing my research, that this is absolutely true. The question becomes, who are those lies aimed at, and what is their purpose?

And this is where we slide into the political soup

 

[NEW ENGLAND]

The reality is these pharmaceutical company fat cats should get sick,and be told NO you cant have the medication you need.
I Fucking hate admitting a patient,and going over their past medical hx,and list of current meds.
I'll ask an elderly person what medication,how many mg,and how many times a day.More often than not they say"well I'm supposed to take 180 mg a day,but I split them in half".
These folks are on a fixed income,cant afford to pay the rent,pay for food,and pay for heat here in the Northeast during the winter.It gets me so upset,these are Blood pressure meds,heart meds,they are forced into rolling the dice on a stroke.Many of these elderly have had children and grandchildren that have served this country.
Fuck me I'm going to take a valium before I stroke out!

 

[White Beard]

Right on.

JFK was labeled a "Marxist" and "communist" by the GOP when he was running for president. Then they ask where are the JFK's of today in the Dem party as if they would actually give them respect.

They called EISENHOWER a commie, and they haven’t improved

 

[Zeez]

Just to keep it "fair and balanced"..... There is one thing about medicare as it stands now.

I think it must get changed or adjusted because hospitals are already whining that it is not profitable enough. It's a bit ironic because many hospitals were built with tax dollars and later became for profit businesses.

When Medicare pays for a hospital stay, surgery, doctors visit or what ever, they pay a flat fee. What that means is that the hospital looses money if you stay too long. The intent is that they don't milk it and keep you longer than necessary. To keep this in check and keep you from getting to much of a rush job there are big fines for call backs or patients returning for the same problem.

 

[NEW ENGLAND]

Sorry, I didn’t mean to dismiss or minimize your points.

You are completely correct, this is the most divided the nation has been since the Slaver rebellion. It is bone-deep and it’s serious: I have long hoped it would never come back to a fratricidal war, but GOP hegemony in Congress has made it bold and given it bigger teeth.

The problem isn’t that we need a Clarifying Event, it’s that clarifying events are intensely difficult to go through: a significant period of national insanity would be tough to ride through, but it seems to be what’s on the table.

That event could be anything, but would have to GET EVERYBODY’S ATTENTION. To do that, it would have to cut through / dispel / resolve enough of the deliberate attention-scatterers built into culture to be seen and heard.

An undeniable verifiable public miracle, a formal alien contact, a comet strike, Russian interference with our power grid, nuclear war, Jesus finally showing back up, sabotage of our banks and financial institutions, a war between residents to determine which way the nation will or won’t go. Some of them are more immediately likely than others.

The division as I see it is over who’s wrong

I mean, the news is that one side has been shamelessly lying their guts out for generations and are genuinely up to no good for regular folks. The ones behind it are not patriots, they are out to recreate us as a significantly different nation, for their benefit and at our expense.

I can tell you from 60+ years doing my research, that this is absolutely true. The question becomes, who are those lies aimed at, and what is their purpose?

And this is where we slide into the political soup

Didnt feel dismissed or minimized at all,and agree with and respect your research.
I ask myself all the time,what's the end game?
And who does that result benefit?

 

[White Beard]

Ok so let's say I pay 25% of my gross annual income in taxes,under a socialist government run healthcare system would I still keep 75% of the income i work for?

If that's the case then I'll look into it further,I have been under the impression the government would tax me more to pay for others.

Let’s back up a step: CANNOT estimate how much it would cost to run that entire government, we’re talking about “a socialist government run healthcare system”. CANNOT burden the argument with undefined expectations. CANNOT forget that just a minute ago, one of us was saying Medicare is a payment interface, it’s not a school or a hospital or clinic or anything, it doesn’t “run” anything except itself.

Sorry I can’t imagine what a better answer might be.

 

[NEW ENGLAND]

Just to keep it "fair and balanced"..... There is one thing about medicare as it stands now.

I think it must get changed or adjusted because hospitals are already whining that it is not profitable enough. It's a bit ironic because many hospitals were built with tax dollars and later became for profit businesses.

When Medicare pays for a hospital stay, surgery, doctors visit or what ever, they pay a flat fee. What that means is that the hospital looses money if you stay too long. The intent is that they don't milk it and keep you longer than necessary. To keep this in check and keep you from getting to much of a rush job there are big fines for call backs or patients returning for the same problem.

Being readmitted for the same problem is a big no no,the hospital dont get paid for that.
Heavily frowned upon,and rightfully so
That's how it used to be "treat em n street em"

 

[NEW ENGLAND]

Let’s back up a step: CANNOT estimate how much it would cost to run that entire government, we’re talking about “a socialist government run healthcare system”. CANNOT burden the argument with undefined expectations. CANNOT forget that just a minute ago, one of us was saying Medicare is a payment interface, it’s not a school or a hospital or clinic or anything, it doesn’t “run” anything except itself.

Sorry I can’t imagine what a better answer might be.

I think that may have been why Sanders threw out a astronomical 70% or whatever ridiculous number he said
You can pry that 70% of my weekly earnings from my cold dead fingers,or on second thought I'll pry my 70% back from your cold dead fingers.

 

[slapmehard]

funny my sons mother is an illegal
on his birth I had a good plan but they wanted to use her americade.kicked the couple in the next room out in 2 days no epidermal shot same plan as mine
my girl all normal everything ep shot. you want to stay another day? after 5 days I got so pissed my son was not home they finally cut her loose
they get the best care with the works.
in this state you can not defend that an illegal immigrant gets better care then our vets/citizens .


did not mean to mix topics just saying

 

[Cannavore]

I think that may have been why Sanders threw out a astronomical 70% or whatever ridiculous number he said
You can pry that 70% of my weekly earnings from my cold dead fingers,or on second thought I'll pry my 70% back from your cold dead fingers.

it's 70% on your $10,000,001 dollar but that wasn't his plan. his plan is 52% over $10,000,001 dollar.

 

[NEW ENGLAND]

I can only speak for myself,and what I see from my co-workers.They all get treated with respect,every patient,if theres a problem and they need something I will call their Dr at anytime day or night,on the 18th hole or at 3 a.m.
And never let a patient suffer in pain,and if I witnessed that I would do something about it.
Doesnt sound like a facility most professional healthcare would strive to be employed at.

 

[Zeez]

I know the hospital you work at. It's a really good one.

 

[NEW ENGLAND]

it's 70% on your $10,000,001 dollar but that wasn't his plan. his plan is 52% over $10,000,001 dollar.

Then I misunderstood,as long as I can keep my private insurance.And I dont pay anything into other people's healthcare.
I dont want anything from the government,and they already TAKE enough from me.

By the caps your talking,it has nothing to do with me or anyone I know,so cool.
Let the billionaires pay for all the others not privately insured.

 

[NEW ENGLAND]

funny my sons mother is an illegal
on his birth I had a good plan but they wanted to use her americade.kicked the couple in the next room out in 2 days no epidermal shot same plan as mine
my girl all normal everything ep shot. you want to stay another day? after 5 days I got so pissed my son was not home they finally cut her loose
they get the best care with the works.
in this state you can not defend that an illegal immigrant gets better care then our vets/citizens .


did not mean to mix topics just saying

Sorry that your family had to have that experience, some staff may need to be reminded from time to time that when we encounter any patient we usually dont see them at their best of times.
Again sorry that happened

 

['Boogieman']

“There were very fine people on both sides”

Paraphrased from dj trump, speaking about Charlottesville, after the tiki torchers marched around saying “Jews will not replace us”.

White supremists are made to feel welcome with trump, not cast out

As far as I'm concerned he was talking about the left wing protesters and the people who were sitting on the sidelines supporting free speach, not the white supremacists in the streets.

 

[PDX Dopesmoker]

 

[White Beard]

I may not vote on any more posts today

Then I misunderstood,as long as I can keep my private insurance.And I dont pay anything into other people's healthcare.
I dont want anything from the government,and they already TAKE enough from me.

By the caps your talking,it has nothing to do with me or anyone I know,so cool.
Let the billionaires pay for all the others not privately insured.

Medicare is entirely voluntary: the only way in which it impacts my care is, it allows me to *get* care. I used to pay 460/mo for what amounted a copay, and a prescription discount: no tests at all. There was no way I could pay that much for nothing. Now, with Medicare, I CAN go to a hospital, ANY hospital, guided by my physician if I have one, get treated, and not get gutted by bankruptcy. This helps - sometimes, it helps a LOT. My monthly premium is under $150, my deductible is less than $200, annual.

I continue to be healthy and functional, but it’s nice to know that at the end, maybe I won’t just lie there and rot