Tea Article

[MrSterling]

..but this is a tea thread.... the triconatol subject has been kicked around before by Coot or someone who may have more experience with it than I.
CC1

Yeah, aware, I figured I'd pick your brain while I had the chance! I'd heard nomaad talk about using it in his soil mix, and your mention of it interfering with flowering is news to me. I've got some edumacating myself to do. Thanks for the information!

 

[Microbeman]

Sorry for being stupid. Is the alfalfa I'd buy in the form of alfalfa hay?

Simple Alfalfa meal in the bag at the livestock store is your best bet unless buying organic from KIS

 

[elmanito]

What will Alfalfa do to the tea??? Has Triacontanol any benefit to the micro-organisms.

Namaste

 

[Microbeman]

Resting grounds of flagellate cysts and fungal food [perhaps bacterial food]

 

[trichrider]

Better to put the straw in at the beginning of the brew so the protozoa grow up with the other organisms, forming a consortium. How do you know you are getting amoebae and not ciliates? Microscope?

excuse me for yawning, it was an indication of me reading for so long, not because i was bored or was already privy to this information.
...and i thought i was creating a consortium. are they both not participants in an active relationship...with bacteria and fungi?...nematoads...springtails...worms...ad infinitum?

 

[Microbeman]

excuse me for yawning, it was an indication of me reading for so long, not because i was bored or was already privy to this information.
...and i thought i was creating a consortium. are they both not participants in an active relationship...with bacteria and fungi?...nematoads...springtails...worms...ad infinitum?

Smoke another one? I don't have a clue what you said.

 

[OrganicBuds]

Wow, Jupiter, Saturn, and the moon must of really helped me on my last grow then, lol. I built my own 15 gal vortex brewer for about 350$ and has been working great. I agree with the added surface area, but the moon and starts helping with this? Not saying it isn't possible, but I didn't notice any extraterritorial results from my grow last year.

sstorch - When you created your vortex brewer why did you make so many risers? I created a vortex with only one riser and it is super easy to take apart and clean. Do you have any cleaning suggestions to remedy this? Thanks for your time and for posting in this thread. We need more people with your skills, so come and teach us some things.

 

[guest2012y]

Another shat up thread..awesome.
Yeah bros you gotta take into consideration the revolution of the moon around the earth when brewing ACT. Very critical to get the bubbles flowing in the upward motion on the pass by Saturn.

I actually have a source for ancient MARS dust...it's the smartest freakin space soil amendment around yo~

Always mix with the rotation of the Earth.....

 

[heady blunts]

sstorch, wouldn't you agree that the microscopic is more important than the macroscopic when it comes to ACT? I think you might want to swap out your telescope for a microscope.

any time i've come across a vortex brewer, the operator is running a so-called "perpetual" brew. is that something you recommend? if not, you might consider better educating your retailers, because it reflects poorly on your product when they don't know shit. if so, you might want to educate yourself, because those teas were definitely crashed, way past the protozoa soup stage, and are being sold by the gallon at ridiculous prices to gullible gardeners.

it also surprises me that you are so concerned with the surface area of your brewer, yet you make no mention of the gas exchange occurring inside your airlifts. perhaps that is why you have 3 extraneous lifts? there is a convenient answer.

this is some deep ass marketing tactic. please don't assume you're being subtle. if you want to hang here and sell your shit then we want to see citations.

where is the crazy ass biodynamic essay that you got all that planet stuff from? where are the lab tests proving your comments about surface area? why don't you contribute to the discussion instead of acting like an irritating salesman?

if i start seeing a bunch of posts with (TM) everywhere i'm gonna take a dump in the perpetual tea in my local store's vortex.

 

[SeaMaiden]

Hehheh... coriolis effect. Dammit, now my post makes no sense!

As for surface area to volume ratios, what was written about bubbles within the water column, etc, is correct (to my aquatic eyes/experience). However, venturi bubbles, superfine bubbles, are proven to have an effect on the CO2/O2 exchange rate. Bubbles created by a typical aquarium pump, or overlarge bubbles simply don't have that effect, and then you're back to surface area being where it's at.

 

[Microbeman]

there are some major points about compost tea 'aeration' that is missing from most conversations. the amount of 'air' being pushed out by most pumps is secondary to the amount of surface area that will be affected by the movement created. the bubble of 'air' is only in contact with the water for a very short period of time and has a low surface area in relation to the surface of the brewing container. a 5 gallon bucket is shallow and has a relatively small surface area so the actual time the water is in contact with the air is quite minimal. one of the reasons i invented the vortexbrewer™ is so that the amount of surface area is maximized and increased by the infolding of the vortex. you would be better off using a small kiddie pool that is shallow but has a large surface area: depth ratio. also, the compost /inoculants used are key. i use the biodynamic preparations in all my products [available on www.vortexbrewer.com]. the reason for this is that these preparations stimulate the "forces" of growth. by doing that [instead of physically forcing growth via synthetic nitrogen] your plants will have the highest quality of primary, secondary and tertiary plant metabolites; this is where the medicinal value is obtained. the outer planets, mars, jupiter saturn affect the root growth and program the soil [ground up rock and silica] with the forces of growth; the inner planets, moon mercury venus affect the stem, leaf, flower and fruit. so here you see the importance of "intelligent soil" that is receptive to these forces. this begs to the question, ''from where does a plant grow?"

Mr Storch;

It seems that you are making some very broad assumptions here, perhaps indicating that you have not read 'most conversations' herein. In actuality, it has been discussed thoroughly that the gas exchange is largely taking place at the surface. However, it has also been broadly discussed and backed up by research that the dissolved oxygen capacity of a given air pump can be increased radically utilizing an airlift.

Please see http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=4316788#post4316788

and it may be of assistance for you read through that thread to see how 'most conversations' on this forum concerning ACT are not restricted to blowing bubbles in a bucket.

 

[singingcrow]

Hi folks, I apologize if these questions have already been asked elsewhere. I want to use this in my compost tea if possible.

I have a bunch of liquid semi-organic liquid ferts from my prior hydro method that I need to use up before the shelflife expires and these expensive products start to bulge in their plastic jugs. Can any of you experts and readers recommend a few recipes using the following..again, these are sitting around...

Liquid Karma...been using it in my compost teas. Not sure if iam using the right amount.
Bat Guano companys green formula, liquid guano compost
Foxfarm's organic Big bloom...heard its a good addie...?
Foxfarm's organic Grow formula
Botanicare's entire product line..organic
Novabloom
NovaGrow
Advanced nutrients foliar
Biobizz root formulas


Thanks!

 

[heady blunts]

Hi folks, I apologize if these questions have already been asked elsewhere. I want to use this in my compost tea if possible.

I have a bunch of liquid semi-organic liquid ferts from my prior hydro method that I need to use up before the shelflife expires and these expensive products start to bulge in their plastic jugs. Can any of you experts and readers recommend a few recipes using the following..again, these are sitting around...

Liquid Karma...been using it in my compost teas. Not sure if iam using the right amount.
Bat Guano companys green formula, liquid guano compost
Foxfarm's organic Big bloom...heard its a good addie...?
Foxfarm's organic Grow formula
Botanicare's entire product line..organic
Novabloom
NovaGrow
Advanced nutrients foliar
Biobizz root formulas


Thanks!

give them to a friend.

or

sell them on craigslist.

or

pour them all in your toilet bowl and hit flush.

edit: actually that last one is not a good idea---major pollution.

 

[rrog]

I'd vote for the flush option.

EDIT: Heady's right. Very polluting. The dump can take the stuff

 

[Microbeman]

give them to a friend.

or

sell them on craigslist.

or

pour them all in your toilet bowl and hit flush.

edit: actually that last one is not a good idea---major pollution.

Agreed. It is called 'compost' tea for a reason.

 

[SeaMaiden]

I use FF Big Bloom, add it to teas to make them feeds, or use it as a basic feed. Have never foliared as one normally would a compost tea.

I can't remember if bokashi was discussed here, or in another thread (fermented plant extracts..? It's getting REALLY hard to keep track of what's being discussed where at times!), but schmalphy just posted a thread about using L. bacillus to make a guano tea (extraction..? is there a difference in definitions in this context?). I bring this up because a friend of mine absolutely swears by bokashi.

 

[rrog]

MadL has a great Bokashi thread.

 

[Microbeman]

From another forum;

ACT does not work as a nutrient supply to plants. The reason you put any foodstock, like molasses in ACT is strictly to cause bacteria and archaea to divide and fungi to grow. Subsequent to that flagellates and/or naked amoebae [protozoa] begin to divide in response to the large bacterial/archaeal population. The protozoa begin eating the bacteria and archaea and that is when you apply the ACT to your soil because after eating bacteria/archaea the protozoa excrete pure ionic form nutrients which feed the plants.

Ingredients put into an ACT designed to benefit plants but do not directly benefit microbes in a liquid are a waste of time & money

*****

This may be a good opportunity to do a minor review.

The predominant way (known so far) which (most) plants receive nutrients naturally in the soil is through the microbial nutrient cycle. This involves protozoa, nematodes or rotifers eating bacteria and/or archaea (bacteria & archaea look the same) and then expelling waste which is ionic form nutrient (predominantly N & P) which is the form uptaken by plants.

The way that ACT fits into this scenario is that when molasses or some other food source is used in the brew fungi & bacteria/archaea are fed and grow & divide respectively during the 12 to 24 hour period. During the 24 to 36 (and up to 48) hour period protozoa (flagellates; naked amoebae) begin dividing in response to the bacteria/archaea, dividing approximately every 2 hours. It does not take many because protozoa can consume 10,000 bacteria per day. Thus you can see that by brewing ACT one is creating a microbial nutrient cycling consortium which when applied to the rhyzosphere should provide an 'instant' kick of nutrients to plants.
Additionally it boosts the soil’s microbial population.

Also in the soil (& compost), aside from legume obligate nitrogen fixing bacteria, there are free living bacteria/archaea N fixers (& other nutrient) and mineralizers. There are several ways that this occurs. One way is that nutrients are made available to roots by bacteria/archaea emitting an acid like citric acid which mineralizes organic matter into available (ionic) forms of nutrients. Similarly many roots excrete these types of acids when needed to make nutrients available to themselves. These nutrients are known as dissolved organic nitrogen and phosphorous (DON & DOP)

The way that ACT fits into this is simply by containing and multiplying some of these species of bacteria & archaea.

Also in the soil there are fungal species which form hyphae (long strands) but do not form a fruiting body (mushroom). These are known as fungi imperfecti. They serve to provide pathways for other microbes and moisture, they join soil particles forming aggregates, they retain moisture and oxygen/air, they provide food to other microbes and plants indirectly by degrading organic matter or directly by being eaten by bacteria, they help prevent pathogens by displacing harmful fungi (and I hypothesize that some, as dark septate endophytes provide nutrients directly to roots)

The way that ACT fits into this is by growing out these hyphae if present in the compost used.

Also in the soil there are mycorrhizal fungal hyphae, which in the case of endomycorrhizal grow right into the plant cell in the root, drawing energy from the plant but also injecting nutrients into the cell(s) which it draws widely from the surrounding soil as it spreads.

The way that ACT fits into this is....NOT

Also in the soil are countless mysteries yet to be noticed.

In the end, just as it is for us, it is all about ATP and mitochondria.

 

[rrog]

What a great post

 

[singingcrow]

Lol, you guys make me laugh. Yeah, I definitely can recurring them to a patient or three. I thought i remebered some of these being helpful for tea formulas..so thanks for the info on big bloom. I'll keep thst and the liquid karma. No worries, I won't pollute our ecosystem...god knows it is fragile enough on California as it is! All the best to you guys and...I love this thread!