TC2010/Prop 19 unlikely to pass (new poll results)

[Snype]

Keep our special plants illegal and vote no on Prop 19. Don't let the tobacco and pharmeseutical companies take it over and give you shit weed to the point where the good growers have to give up growing because of low prices that they aren't able to compete. Don't be fooled, vote no.

 

[MoldyFrogToe]

Keep our special plants illegal and vote no on Prop 19. Don't let the tobacco and pharmeseutical [SIC] companies take it over and give you shit weed to the point where the good growers have to give up growing because of low prices that they aren't able to compete. Don't be fooled, vote no.

The theory that big companies will take over and drive small business out with low quality is a complete load of shit.

The misguided attitude of Snype and others here are reflections of an extremist mentality of this Peron guy who will never accept the rational idea of taxation (just like every other thing in this country, if you don't like it, don't take it out on the MJ movement) which is absolutely the only way to get MJ legalized in this country. They'd rather have people's kids ripped away from them and cuff people just so they can jack up the price of their weed, and just so they can feel good about what they think is "stickin it" to the big companies. In reality all they are doin is stickin it to millions of suffering people and maintaining a sect of suffering people by their greed to keep prices high, their greed to shut out any and all competition (ya friggin wussies with your blackmarket-priced weed....if you want a monopoly stay the hell out of the USA), and their irrational stance on avoiding taxes.

Some people cut off their nose to spite their face, and the extremists here fall into that category, the only problem is, they cut off an entire movement's nose to spite an entire movement's face, just for their selfish interests. It makes me so incredibly disappointed to see.

It's barely excusable to disagree with the bill based on unjust punishments outlined in the bill (even though they are net positive compared to the status quo). It's barely excusable to disagree to the point where you don't vote on it (horrible as it is). But it is absolutely sickeningly atrocious and selfish to shaft the lives of millions who don't have the privilege or opportunity to grow, and of those lives who will get caught for doing so and go to jail...

...just so irrational, unrealistic, extremist people like Peron can say "YEAH! There we go, you guys will NEVER tax weed, ha! You corps will NEVER get the chance to take "MY" plant and grow it! Take THAT!" I don't give a damn if he's the grandfather of the medical movement btw, that's irrelevant and will never excuse his irrational extremism on this topic.

>>>>>>>Aside from that, people who really care about MJ won't even buy from those corporations. Small biz will always prevail to those who want to support it, and quality of these small businesses will always surpass that of those corporations trying to peddle out watered down weed with chemical shit sprayed all over it (don't forget how much chemical shit the average grower thinks is ok to use on the black market, or on the weed they sell to dispensaries currently, or grow on their own here at ICMAG - a high percentage). This is the same business model with everything - a large % of clients will be happy with cheap prices/low quality, and the remaining will have higher standards, willing to support the little guy, willing to pay a little more. Think wine, think food, think cheese, think cars, everything - rendering Snype's and others' argument useless, null, and void on this.<<<<<<<

In my mind it is these extremists like Snype who are just as bad as those greedy corporations, you have the exact same mentality, drive, and reasoning which is holding you back from supporting the bill but worse, because you are afraid of competition, you want a monopoly, and you think you own this plant, just like the corporations which you think you are stickin it to, if not worse. You are one of them, you are that greedy business man who wants all to himself, who wants a monopoly, who is afraid of any competition other than your own, who says just leave well enough alone, because YOU are happy, despite the millions of shattered lives that this illegal status quo affects.

So very childish, so immature, so unrealistic, so greedy, and when you think about what this will do to maintain the current shattering of lives - so sick.

My major concern is what this would do to the medical situation, but that can and would be remedied without causing a major interruption to the lives of those in the medical community, who I sincerely care about in the context of this imperfect bill, and that is so very clearly not the concern of people like Snype. Maybe that's Peron's issue, but he's being irrational. The issue of homeopathic remedy being accepted is a separate battle to fight in my opinion, not something to shaft millions of lives for, placing that of higher priority than legalization would stifle the MJ movement even more than it already is. Save it for another day and rework the entire medical system on your own time, not on that of people suffering in jail for MJ, who have been doing so since that douchebag Anslinger came on the scene. The medicinal community will still have access to their high quality medicine in the interim, and that availability is extremely important to maintain.

Who the hell in their right mind demands to keep this plant illegal just to 'stick it to big biz.' Makes me want to puke.

 

[MicroDude]

It doesnt matter if its food or MJ. There will always be a group to oppose your view. There is always money to be made in a fight... How hard is it for 1 grower to make 20 forum names and say vote no. You can never make everybody agree. Let it go to vote.

In my opinion if somebody says to keep it underground, they are the scum of the earth.

 

[Babbabud]

The news stories out of Oakland ... seem to support the fact that the locals feel the little guy will be pushed out. KTVU is all over this story.

 

[dagnabit]

i do notice alot of new members who's only posts support prohibition.

do you think some old time members are a bit ashamed that they support the continued civil rights violations of their fellow cannabis users?

or

are they paid hacks?

or

is it all just the same 16 year old who's mom wont sign off on his med rec?

 

[dagnabit]

Posted: 10:52 pm PDT July 14, 2010
Updated: 11:00 pm PDT July 14, 2010
OAKLAND, Calif. -- Oakland has taken a major step toward becoming first U.S. city to issue permits to legally grow marijuana. Oakland's Public Safety Committee voted 3-1 Wednesday to approve a plan to allow and tax large indoor marijuana grow operations.

Councilwoman Rebecca Kaplan co-authored the proposal.

Kaplan said the permit process would raise money while cutting down on crime and the potential for fires from illegal indoor grow operations.

"The permits for these facilities will have fire safety inspections, electrical inspections, requirements to have security guards," said Kaplan. "So it's definitely a revenue benefit. But it's also a public safety benefit."

The proposal would allow four large growers to be licensed in the first year. Their crop could be sold to dispensaries in Oakland and throughout California.

Growers would have to pay $5,000 for a permit, a $210,000 regulatory fee and $60,000 for a dispensary permit.

Councilwoman Kaplan was frank about the potential for the city to make money.

"It's definitely a revenue issue," Kaplan said. "Cannabis is the largest dollar value cash crop bought and sold in California."

Some cannabis advocates at Oaksterdam University hailed the committee vote as a victory, saying the proposal fits into a much larger constellation of cannabis legislation.

"In November it could become very important," said University spokesman Richard Lee. "Because as we look to change our laws to allow all adults to consume cannabis we're going to need a lot more production facilities."

Some smaller growers say they are worried big operations will force them out of the growing business.

The matter now goes before the full city council, where a decision could be made next month. If passed, the proposal likely wouldn't take effect until next year.



http://www.ktvu.com/news/24265136/detail.html

 

[MoldyFrogToe]

The other thing that is good about this bill is that it acts to directly compete with murderous cartels by disrupting the high value of and incentive to participate in the MJ black market. They are infiltrating our national parks, destroying them by trashing them with irrigation lines and trash, disrupting the ecosystem heavily by dumping enormous amounts of pesticides and fertilizer, and holding guns to the heads of people trying to enjoy the great outdoors.

 

[OrganicOzarks]

Growers would have to pay $5,000 for a permit, a $210,000 regulatory fee and $60,000 for a dispensary permit.


This sounds very economical. I think everyone should shell out $275,000 so that they can grow their own and sell it at their own shop. YOu have that right? So now that they have that part of it done they will now get it passed that dispensaries will have to grow their own. Then you will see it spread like wild fire, and all of the mom and pop shops will be gone. Look at Colorado's new rules. I just talked with my friend a couple of days ago up there and the rules are clearly made by Richard Lee, Steve Diangelo, and the like. I would put more emphasise on Steve. He and the like are trying to cock block everyone. Vote yes, and shut yourself out. Smart plan. My friend in Colorado has two dispensaries, and now is opening up a 18,000 sq ft grow because he has to grow 70% of his own product. People need to look at the country as a whole, and piece together all of these different things that are going on in each State. Then you will see the big picture of what the few greedy fucks from Cali are doing to this industry. Can you say Budweiser, Coors, and Miller? I have not touched one of their products in years. I just lied. Since Bud got bought out I do drink Stella Artois. It is technically a Bud product now. That is not the point though. The point is get ready for some watered down genetics that produce fast, and yield big. I keep saying everyone needs to see what Steve Diangelo is doing across the Country. This dude is the Bill Gates of Pot, and the date is about 1985. Take your blinders off people. Steve had a hand in the Rules in Colorado. He and others knew that most of the shops would not be able to comply so they would have to close, and pass that business right along to his. I will say that he is one smart motherfucker, but he is a motherfucker.

 

[dagnabit]

Growers would have to pay $5,000 for a permit, a $210,000 regulatory fee and $60,000 for a dispensary permit.


This sounds very economical. I think everyone should shell out $275,000 so that they can grow their own and sell it at their own shop. YOu have that right? So now that they have that part of it done they will now get it passed that dispensaries will have to grow their own. Then you will see it spread like wild fire, and all of the mom and pop shops will be gone. Look at Colorado's new rules. I just talked with my friend a couple of days ago up there and the rules are clearly made by Richard Lee, Steve Diangelo, and the like. I would put more emphasise on Steve. He and the like are trying to cock block everyone. Vote yes, and shut yourself out. Smart plan. My friend in Colorado has two dispensaries, and now is opening up a 18,000 sq ft grow because he has to grow 70% of his own product. People need to look at the country as a whole, and piece together all of these different things that are going on in each State. Then you will see the big picture of what the few greedy fucks from Cali are doing to this industry. Can you say Budweiser, Coors, and Miller? I have not touched one of their products in years. I just lied. Since Bud got bought out I do drink Stella Artois. It is technically a Bud product now. That is not the point though. The point is get ready for some watered down genetics that produce fast, and yield big. I keep saying everyone needs to see what Steve Diangelo is doing across the Country. This dude is the Bill Gates of Pot, and the date is about 1985. Take your blinders off people. Steve had a hand in the Rules in Colorado. He and others knew that most of the shops would not be able to comply so they would have to close, and pass that business right along to his. I will say that he is one smart motherfucker, but he is a motherfucker.

open a bar see how much your liquor license costs you.
this bill treats marijuana the way it should be treated for recreational users
you make my point with your beer analogy
i have not bought a product from the companies you listed in YEARS!!!!
but there is a sixer of hopslam in the fridge right now.

lets not get sidetracked with crystal balls and ouija board predictions about what bills the nefarious cripple evil mastermind dick lee will sign into law by executive order once he steals the white house.

and the article i posted was not about TC2010 sorry if it was confusing to the issue...i should have put it in a new thread.

 

[OrganicOzarks]

dagnabit your post is very relevant to all that is going on. I have no crystal ball. I do not need one. I read for hours upon hours per day about this industry, and I also do research to find out who is funding the legislation in each State, and also who "actually" owns a lot of the companies that are popping up arcoss the country. Watch Beer Wars, and you will see what is taking place. It is inevitable though. All we can do is postpone it. I have seen this coming for sometime now. I am preparing to stay in the game. Not get shut out.

 

[dagnabit]

dagnabit your post is very relevant to all that is going on. I have no crystal ball. I do not need one. I read for hours upon hours per day about this industry, and I also do research to find out who is funding the legislation in each State, and also who "actually" owns a lot of the companies that are popping up arcoss the country. Watch Beer Wars, and you will see what is taking place. It is inevitable though. All we can do is postpone it. I have seen this coming for sometime now. I am preparing to stay in the game. Not get shut out.

its business..

80% fail...

dont be one of the failures do it right.

i for one will just keep doing what im doing....
as will most folks. this bill wil have very little effect in all reality until it brings the inevitable SCOTUS cases which is the real benefit of this bill.

 

[MoldyFrogToe]

I feel for the small dispensaries and hope the best for them, but their "free ride" can't last forever, they have to play by the rules of the rest of society if we ever want MJ legalized, and to me, they don't take priority over ruined lives deemed criminal by current law.

It may not be ideal, it may not be pretty, but we can't hault legalization just because of the fact that many small dispensaries are comfy at the moment, who are rightfully taking advantage of the current mess that is MJ legislation as it stands now. It's a shitty situation all around and hopefully it will get ironed out if passed. If this doesn't get passed, hopefully something more friendly to the little guy will get passed, but given the resistance by gov't, there will have to be sacrifices if we want to get this done, unfortunately.

Those little guys should consider themselves lucky right now and save up with their blackmarket-priced-MJ-profits and prepare to transition for the worst, as any responsible business owner would.

 

[Gdood9]

Look, here's the deal. The cost's of getting into the commercial scene with licenses and permits, inspections, taxes, and overhead costs will make it next to impossible for all the mom and pop growers to get into the biz. They are also going to be limiting how many commercial licenses will be handed out. Just for the two rooms I have now that supply me, my roommates, and some going to the clubs I'd have to pay probably somewhere near $50,000-$100,000 realistically to even get my foot in the door. I don't have anywhere near that amount of money. Shit, I'm just scraping by. Just got look at how empty my fridge is. Everybody seems to think that being a grower or a dispensary owner makes you rich. I wish.

This is how big corporations will work their way in. High entry cost combined with heavy regulation and limited licenses.

Think about this people, this bill is only being introduced because Cali is broke and needs money. This is all about the money, not your rights. Everybody keeps saying thousands and thousands and millions of people will stay out of jail...blah blah blah. There are still people in jail with SB420 and Prop 215 in place. Here's the numbers. There were 60,000 "arrests" made in cali for cannabis in 2009. 1,400 people were incarcerated and went to jail for cannabis in 2009. Where are these thousands and thousands of people in jail. Most of the people that are in jail for cannabis related convictions only are in there for FELONIES. These felonies will still be felonies even if prop 19 passes.

Just look at all the other industries that are similar and think about the corporatization that has dominated them. Cannabis will be even more tightly regulated than alcohol or tobacco. Prop 19 gives the state and cities 100% complete control over cannabis.

All that will be happening is we will just be getting fucked a different way, that's all.

Don't give me this, Oh, we'll change it after it passes. What has changed since SB420 and Prop 215? Nothing. That's how these things work.

I would love to see some real legalization in legislation, not limited decriminalization with heavy taxation and regulation.

Another point I would like to make. I keep hearing all these people using sensationalism and making general statements about people against this bill being for jail, for illegality, and making them out to be bad people. What you are saying is 100% false. I could go around saying that you are a big purple teletubby because you eat carrots. That's false too. Stop trying to defame somebody's character and have a real debate.

 

[GanjaAL]

I will be voting NO! Just in case people are wondering why... San Diego just had another raid on a dispensory which is legal and it was Fed lead with the city backing it up... Sorry but it will not stop if they will not respect the MMJ bills... why do people think it will stop with rec legalization? It won't... it is all about the money on both sides.

 

[Snype]

The theory that big companies will take over and drive small business out with low quality is a complete load of shit.

The misguided attitude of Snype and others here are reflections of an extremist mentality of this Peron guy who will never accept the rational idea of taxation (just like every other thing in this country, if you don't like it, don't take it out on the MJ movement) which is absolutely the only way to get MJ legalized in this country. They'd rather have people's kids ripped away from them and cuff people just so they can jack up the price of their weed, and just so they can feel good about what they think is "stickin it" to the big companies. In reality all they are doin is stickin it to millions of suffering people and maintaining a sect of suffering people by their greed to keep prices high, their greed to shut out any and all competition (ya friggin wussies with your blackmarket-priced weed....if you want a monopoly stay the hell out of the USA), and their irrational stance on avoiding taxes.

Some people cut off their nose to spite their face, and the extremists here fall into that category, the only problem is, they cut off an entire movement's nose to spite an entire movement's face, just for their selfish interests. It makes me so incredibly disappointed to see.

It's barely excusable to disagree with the bill based on unjust punishments outlined in the bill (even though they are net positive compared to the status quo). It's barely excusable to disagree to the point where you don't vote on it (horrible as it is). But it is absolutely sickeningly atrocious and selfish to shaft the lives of millions who don't have the privilege or opportunity to grow, and of those lives who will get caught for doing so and go to jail...

...just so irrational, unrealistic, extremist people like Peron can say "YEAH! There we go, you guys will NEVER tax weed, ha! You corps will NEVER get the chance to take "MY" plant and grow it! Take THAT!" I don't give a damn if he's the grandfather of the medical movement btw, that's irrelevant and will never excuse his irrational extremism on this topic.

>>>>>>>Aside from that, people who really care about MJ won't even buy from those corporations. Small biz will always prevail to those who want to support it, and quality of these small businesses will always surpass that of those corporations trying to peddle out watered down weed with chemical shit sprayed all over it (don't forget how much chemical shit the average grower thinks is ok to use on the black market, or on the weed they sell to dispensaries currently, or grow on their own here at ICMAG - a high percentage). This is the same business model with everything - a large % of clients will be happy with cheap prices/low quality, and the remaining will have higher standards, willing to support the little guy, willing to pay a little more. Think wine, think food, think cheese, think cars, everything - rendering Snype's and others' argument useless, null, and void on this.<<<<<<<

In my mind it is these extremists like Snype who are just as bad as those greedy corporations, you have the exact same mentality, drive, and reasoning which is holding you back from supporting the bill but worse, because you are afraid of competition, you want a monopoly, and you think you own this plant, just like the corporations which you think you are stickin it to, if not worse. You are one of them, you are that greedy business man who wants all to himself, who wants a monopoly, who is afraid of any competition other than your own, who says just leave well enough alone, because YOU are happy, despite the millions of shattered lives that this illegal status quo affects.

So very childish, so immature, so unrealistic, so greedy, and when you think about what this will do to maintain the current shattering of lives - so sick.

My major concern is what this would do to the medical situation, but that can and would be remedied without causing a major interruption to the lives of those in the medical community, who I sincerely care about in the context of this imperfect bill, and that is so very clearly not the concern of people like Snype. Maybe that's Peron's issue, but he's being irrational. The issue of homeopathic remedy being accepted is a separate battle to fight in my opinion, not something to shaft millions of lives for, placing that of higher priority than legalization would stifle the MJ movement even more than it already is. Save it for another day and rework the entire medical system on your own time, not on that of people suffering in jail for MJ, who have been doing so since that douchebag Anslinger came on the scene. The medicinal community will still have access to their high quality medicine in the interim, and that availability is extremely important to maintain.

Who the hell in their right mind demands to keep this plant illegal just to 'stick it to big biz.' Makes me want to puke.

If you really think that big corporations won't take it over and capitalize on the market then you are living in a fake world. Get ready for new types of MSG in your trees like Mcdonalds and all the other fast food and processed foods with all the chemicals in them. Regular growers will not be able to compete with huge companies who will grow with thousands of lights. It's already expensive enough to grow as it is. Having to pay fees to grow which will amount to 1000's of dollars will shut down a lot of growers who in the end will not be able to compete with the big companies who are in it just for the money. In a pack of cigarettes they don't have to list all the 100's of chemicals that they put in there for you to get you addicted to their cigs. The same will happen if this law passes. Vote no and save the business.

 

[dagnabit]

If you really think that big corporations won't take it over and capitalize on the market then you are living in a fake world.

if you think national or multinational corporations are going to break federal law and risk asset forfeiture under rico statutes you sir are living in a "fake world".

 

[dagnabit]

Regular growers will not be able to compete with huge companies who will grow with thousands of lights. It's already expensive enough to grow as it is. Having to pay fees to grow which will amount to 1000's of dollars will shut down a lot of growers who in the end will not be able to compete with the big companies who are in it just for the money.

Life isn't a fairy tale, it's a set of problems that have to be solved. The clock doesn't stop for you to wait to get them figured out, it just keeps on ticking

 

[Snype]

if you think national or multinational corporations are going to break federal law and risk asset forfeiture under rico statutes you sir are living in a "fake world".

They won't have to break federal laws cause if that law passes, it will pave the road to make it federally legal in the near future cause the corporations will dump millions to congress to pass it in their favor and let them control it like they control everything else. They will make it very difficult for you to grow your own trees. The US government isn't working for the people, they work for the corporations. You'll never stop big money.

According to the Rand Drug Policy Research Center, the price of marijuana could fall by as much as 80 percent if the drug were made legal for individual use.

 

[dagnabit]

They won't have to break federal laws cause if that law passes, it will pave the road to make it federally legal in the near future

ohhh please????

that is the hope!

 

[Gdood9]

I'm not saying Marlboro is gonna be in this thing right when it starts, but don't forget they've been buying land in Northern Cali for a while now. Any corporations that get in right now will be cali based ones, Oaksterdam being one. Big national corporations will wait to get in until it's legal across the US. They don't wanna fuck with Federal Law. There are a lot of Cali based corporations and even though the state gov't may be broke there are a lot of people that still have a lot of money here. It's written perfectly for these big guys to move on in.

California is historically a place that sets precedent in the US and you will see legalization start to spread quick. Virginia, which is one of the most socially conservative states, had a legalization bill not long ago that made it to legislation, and was introduced by a republican rep that is a doctor. It got shut down but the fact is it even made it to the house to get voted on. That's huge for there. NO MMJ laws there either. First bill of it's kind there. There are already 14 states with MMJ laws. These big corporations have lots of money and lobbyists on capitol hill so it'll get legalized when they feel the need to have it legalized. There's a huuuuge market for hemp too.