215forLife
Member
Hey leave mine alone, no motitovs please... atleast I'm trying to warn everyone first.
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TC2010/Prop 19 unlikely to pass (new poll results)
- Thread starter Lazyman
- Start date
CaptainTrips
Active member
Hemp pollen in the ventilation system?! lol
Very Good News. This Bill is Majorly flawed!
Peron, co-author of Proposition 215, cites three "fatal flaws" in the Oaksterdamn U initiative . These can be described as limits, taxes, and penalties regarding minors.
Regarding the limits of one ounce and 25 square feet for personal cultivation:
"Imagine a law to “tax and regulate” alcohol that only allows for possession of up to one bottle of wine imprisoning those who exceed that amount, be it two bottles or a small collection of choice vintages. These limits guarantee confusion, harassment and black marketeering forevermore. We don’t control alcohol by imposing a 25 sq. foot limit on grape vines. But one extra gram or sq. foot of pot means jail and even worse; this initiative specifies that if accused of having too much cannabis the burden of proof is on you, not the state."
Regarding taxes:
"Singling out those who want to use marijuana for a huge excise tax is just plain unfair. It maintains cannabis as the most expensive, blatantly overpriced product on the market thus forcing most people to choose cheaper, more dangerous drugs with huge externalized costs to society as a whole."
Regarding minors:
"Sending teenagers to state prison for three years for pot is evil. This initiative mandates that 18, 19, and twenty year old minors serve three to seven year terms in California state prison for the crime of passing each other a joint or selling one another a small amount. Under this law if a 21 year old person passes a joint to a 20 year old he or she goes to county jail for six months. Likewise this measure has no exceptions for parents in their own homes from the “smoking cannabis in any space while minors are present” prohibition. We don’t lock up parents for having a glass of wine with dinner and we certainly don’t tell the kids to leave the house for the purpose of consuming any other substance so why start with cannabis?"
Peron vows that if the proponents "buy" enough signatures to get the initiative on the ballot he will campaign against it:
"This initiative is bad for parents, students and, ultimately, the effort to get the state to stop ruining lives enforcing these draconian pot laws. Initiatives create permanent statutes. This one with its petty restrictions for personal users, prohibitive unfair taxes, and mandatory state prison sentences for teen agers need be nipped in the bud. We will campaign and vote against it should its proponents succeed in purchasing the necessary number of signatures to put it on the 2010 ballot. The tax revenue it will supposedly generate is a mere smokescreen for the kids it will regulate into three, five and seven year state prison sentences."
VOTE NO!
Peron, co-author of Proposition 215, cites three "fatal flaws" in the Oaksterdamn U initiative . These can be described as limits, taxes, and penalties regarding minors.
Regarding the limits of one ounce and 25 square feet for personal cultivation:
"Imagine a law to “tax and regulate” alcohol that only allows for possession of up to one bottle of wine imprisoning those who exceed that amount, be it two bottles or a small collection of choice vintages. These limits guarantee confusion, harassment and black marketeering forevermore. We don’t control alcohol by imposing a 25 sq. foot limit on grape vines. But one extra gram or sq. foot of pot means jail and even worse; this initiative specifies that if accused of having too much cannabis the burden of proof is on you, not the state."
Regarding taxes:
"Singling out those who want to use marijuana for a huge excise tax is just plain unfair. It maintains cannabis as the most expensive, blatantly overpriced product on the market thus forcing most people to choose cheaper, more dangerous drugs with huge externalized costs to society as a whole."
Regarding minors:
"Sending teenagers to state prison for three years for pot is evil. This initiative mandates that 18, 19, and twenty year old minors serve three to seven year terms in California state prison for the crime of passing each other a joint or selling one another a small amount. Under this law if a 21 year old person passes a joint to a 20 year old he or she goes to county jail for six months. Likewise this measure has no exceptions for parents in their own homes from the “smoking cannabis in any space while minors are present” prohibition. We don’t lock up parents for having a glass of wine with dinner and we certainly don’t tell the kids to leave the house for the purpose of consuming any other substance so why start with cannabis?"
Peron vows that if the proponents "buy" enough signatures to get the initiative on the ballot he will campaign against it:
"This initiative is bad for parents, students and, ultimately, the effort to get the state to stop ruining lives enforcing these draconian pot laws. Initiatives create permanent statutes. This one with its petty restrictions for personal users, prohibitive unfair taxes, and mandatory state prison sentences for teen agers need be nipped in the bud. We will campaign and vote against it should its proponents succeed in purchasing the necessary number of signatures to put it on the 2010 ballot. The tax revenue it will supposedly generate is a mere smokescreen for the kids it will regulate into three, five and seven year state prison sentences."
VOTE NO!
ocean_grown
Member
I don't really care either way, ganja is already legal as far as I'm concerned. Down with taxes and regulation.
MoldyFrogToe
Member
Makes me sick to see people here telling everyone to vote no.
They may as well slap the cuffs on people, steal children from families, and prolong human suffering themselves by turning into an anti pot district attorney or something. Wtf?? Shameful. No one is gonna send a teenager to jail for a joint, it's the same as alcohol, judges have discretion, and there is opportunity to reform the law once it passes. The net effect is beneficial compared to the current sad state of this topic!
People need to realize that no matter what if it's legalized corporations will take a hold of it. Using this as an excuse to keep it illegal and throw adults into jail for using it is weak and hurts everyone in the long run. Why do you care if a big corp gets its hands on it, go grow some in your home on your own and save your genetics like you do now (under much greater danger)
They may as well slap the cuffs on people, steal children from families, and prolong human suffering themselves by turning into an anti pot district attorney or something. Wtf?? Shameful. No one is gonna send a teenager to jail for a joint, it's the same as alcohol, judges have discretion, and there is opportunity to reform the law once it passes. The net effect is beneficial compared to the current sad state of this topic!
People need to realize that no matter what if it's legalized corporations will take a hold of it. Using this as an excuse to keep it illegal and throw adults into jail for using it is weak and hurts everyone in the long run. Why do you care if a big corp gets its hands on it, go grow some in your home on your own and save your genetics like you do now (under much greater danger)
Haha, just imagine the devastation of half a million plants all of a sudden going to seed (5 plants per 1000 watt light, like in Lee's 100K light Oakland warehouse.) Millions of dollars lost overnight.
Oof the bad karma though!
Are you DUMB, or did you not read the post?
Prohibition on Furnishing Marijuana to Minors
(a) Every person 18 years of age or over who hires, employs, or uses a minor in transporting, carrying, selling, giving away, preparing for sale, or peddling any marijuana, who unlawfully sells, or offers to sell, any marijuana to a minor, or who furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer, or give any marijuana to a minor under 14 years of age, or who induces a minor to use marijuana in violation of law shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for a period of three, five, or seven years.
(b) Every person 18 years of age or over who furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer, or give, any marijuana to a minor 14 years of age or older shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for a period of three, four, or five years.
(c) Every person 21 years of age or over who knowingly furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer or give, any marijuana to a person aged 18 years or older, but younger than 21 years of age, shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail for a period of up to six months and be fined up to $1,000 for each offense.
(d) In addition to the penalties above, any person who is licensed, permitted or authorized to perform any act pursuant to Section 11301, who while so licensed, permitted or authorized, negligently furnishes, administers, gives or sells, or offers to furnish, administer, give or sell, any marijuana to any person younger than 21 years of age shall not be permitted to own, operate, be employed by, assist or enter any licensed premises authorized under Section 11301 for a period of one year.
you do the math..this bill doesn't let let prisoners out, and possession of marijuana doesn't put people in jail...this bill CREATES prisoners, not RELEASES them.
go read the bill for yourself
Prohibition on Furnishing Marijuana to Minors
(a) Every person 18 years of age or over who hires, employs, or uses a minor in transporting, carrying, selling, giving away, preparing for sale, or peddling any marijuana, who unlawfully sells, or offers to sell, any marijuana to a minor, or who furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer, or give any marijuana to a minor under 14 years of age, or who induces a minor to use marijuana in violation of law shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for a period of three, five, or seven years.
(b) Every person 18 years of age or over who furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer, or give, any marijuana to a minor 14 years of age or older shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for a period of three, four, or five years.
(c) Every person 21 years of age or over who knowingly furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer or give, any marijuana to a person aged 18 years or older, but younger than 21 years of age, shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail for a period of up to six months and be fined up to $1,000 for each offense.
(d) In addition to the penalties above, any person who is licensed, permitted or authorized to perform any act pursuant to Section 11301, who while so licensed, permitted or authorized, negligently furnishes, administers, gives or sells, or offers to furnish, administer, give or sell, any marijuana to any person younger than 21 years of age shall not be permitted to own, operate, be employed by, assist or enter any licensed premises authorized under Section 11301 for a period of one year.
you do the math..this bill doesn't let let prisoners out, and possession of marijuana doesn't put people in jail...this bill CREATES prisoners, not RELEASES them.
go read the bill for yourself
♥Mo♥
Member
Are you DUMB, or did you not read the post?
Prohibition on Furnishing Marijuana to Minors
(a) Every person 18 years of age or over who hires, employs, or uses a minor in transporting, carrying, selling, giving away, preparing for sale, or peddling any marijuana, who unlawfully sells, or offers to sell, any marijuana to a minor, or who furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer, or give any marijuana to a minor under 14 years of age, or who induces a minor to use marijuana in violation of law shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for a period of three, five, or seven years.
(b) Every person 18 years of age or over who furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer, or give, any marijuana to a minor 14 years of age or older shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for a period of three, four, or five years.
(c) Every person 21 years of age or over who knowingly furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer or give, any marijuana to a person aged 18 years or older, but younger than 21 years of age, shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail for a period of up to six months and be fined up to $1,000 for each offense.
(d) In addition to the penalties above, any person who is licensed, permitted or authorized to perform any act pursuant to Section 11301, who while so licensed, permitted or authorized, negligently furnishes, administers, gives or sells, or offers to furnish, administer, give or sell, any marijuana to any person younger than 21 years of age shall not be permitted to own, operate, be employed by, assist or enter any licensed premises authorized under Section 11301 for a period of one year.
you do the math..this bill doesn't let let prisoners out, and possession of marijuana doesn't put people in jail...this bill CREATES prisoners, not RELEASES them.
go read the bill for yourself
Quoted from above.
I really fail to see your argument here unless you are under 21. It still allows the masses that are 21 and older to finally have a taste of freedom for once. It is not perfect, but definitely a step forward. You are not going to get it all at once no matter what. I myself will be voting YES!!!
Prohibition on Furnishing Marijuana to Minors
(a) Every person 18 years of age or over who hires, employs, or uses a minor in transporting, carrying, selling, giving away, preparing for sale, or peddling any marijuana, who unlawfully sells, or offers to sell, any marijuana to a minor, or who furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer, or give any marijuana to a minor under 14 years of age, or who induces a minor to use marijuana in violation of law shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for a period of three, five, or seven years.
(b) Every person 18 years of age or over who furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer, or give, any marijuana to a minor 14 years of age or older shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for a period of three, four, or five years.
(c) Every person 21 years of age or over who knowingly furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer or give, any marijuana to a person aged 18 years or older, but younger than 21 years of age, shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail for a period of up to six months and be fined up to $1,000 for each offense.
(d) In addition to the penalties above, any person who is licensed, permitted or authorized to perform any act pursuant to Section 11301, who while so licensed, permitted or authorized, negligently furnishes, administers, gives or sells, or offers to furnish, administer, give or sell, any marijuana to any person younger than 21 years of age shall not be permitted to own, operate, be employed by, assist or enter any licensed premises authorized under Section 11301 for a period of one year.
you do the math..this bill doesn't let let prisoners out, and possession of marijuana doesn't put people in jail...this bill CREATES prisoners, not RELEASES them.
go read the bill for yourself
Quoted from above.
I really fail to see your argument here unless you are under 21. It still allows the masses that are 21 and older to finally have a taste of freedom for once. It is not perfect, but definitely a step forward. You are not going to get it all at once no matter what. I myself will be voting YES!!!
F
feral
It's a shame that all of us in the past who have fought and done time to legalize weed are being shot down because folks are worried about $$$$$$$. Those growers are the same ones who bitch and complain when the man says no to parole, etc. when they get busted. Greed thats all it is. Nothing more nothing less.
MoldyFrogToe
Member
I am also troubled by their hardline approach to attacking minors on this, but have hope that if passed the bill may be reformed, and would also have hope that judges would use discretion much like they do with alcohol in not screwing lives of minors over for getting caught with MJ.
These kind of plea bargain deals are inevitable with legalizing MJ, it's unfortunate but we have to take what we can get.
markscastle
Member
I`d say most of you who have done time did so because you were growing/selling to make money. I don`t think many of you put expences ,time, and effort into growing just to give it away for free to med users. Very few people work for the good of others without regard to there own well being.Again I`m not against people making a modest living supply`n others with there meds ,but very few people should go around acting like Saints ether!
Hey! I am very sorry for asking if you're dumb, I apologize.
I believe the super majority of people who smoke pot, already do so at there discretion, and would have no issue doing so without this bill.
I think 2012 would be a much better step, rather then forcing a very biased unfair bill the moment we see it.
Nothing will change if legalized this year, except more prisoners and more taxes...
"its unfortunate, but we have to take what we can get"
I disagree, keep fighting the hard fight, dont just take what you can get.
I believe the super majority of people who smoke pot, already do so at there discretion, and would have no issue doing so without this bill.
I think 2012 would be a much better step, rather then forcing a very biased unfair bill the moment we see it.
Nothing will change if legalized this year, except more prisoners and more taxes...
"its unfortunate, but we have to take what we can get"
I disagree, keep fighting the hard fight, dont just take what you can get.
markscastle
Member
F
feral
This attacks those that supplies weed to minors. nothing different if you were to supply tobacco, alcohol, or prescription narcotics to kids except the penalties. For god sake people heres a chance to be able to smoke and grow weed without fear of being busted and thumb your noses at Capital Hill and the rest of the feds and tell them to go to hell. To take back the freedoms that the governments have taken from us and that our ancestors centuries ago fought and died for to get. what the hell?
F
feral
Also this isn't just about weed. This is about the states taking control over what happens in their part of the country and not having some bullshit federal government telling them and you what you can and cant do.
MoldyFrogToe
Member
My bad, I read it wrong for a second there.
MoldyFrogToe
Member
That's ok, dont worry about it. I agree we shouldn't take anything we can get blindly, that probably wasn't the right thing to say. Just within reason. I'm trying to weight to total situation and it seems like legalization would be better. I can see why people don't like this bill because I don't like all of it either, but by and large I think it'd help out a lot of people who don't currently grow, or those who are forced in Ca or other states to use the black market. We'll see what happens I guess!
markscastle
Member
Sorry I don`t call anyone who is old enough to put on an armed forces uniform fight and maybe die for our country a `kid`! I also feel the same way about alcohol. It`s against the law to give anyone prescription drugs unless you are authorized such as a doctor. I won`t be a part of putting our young people last!
i wonder if the naysayers are greedy or are they waiting for a bill that reads
"any person of any age is lawfully allowed to grow,possess,sell,distribute,package,transport or any other action related to the cannabis plant without paying any sales,income,excise or V.A.tax or any regulation of any sort anywhere in the entire process."
please do hold your breath for this bill(if you die there will be one less idiot) to be written.
please dont hold you breath for the above bill
"any person of any age is lawfully allowed to grow,possess,sell,distribute,package,transport or any other action related to the cannabis plant without paying any sales,income,excise or V.A.tax or any regulation of any sort anywhere in the entire process."
please do hold your breath for this bill(if you die there will be one less idiot) to be written.
please dont hold you breath for the above bill
