TAG - Landing (Resource for True Aero Growing)

[Purpleseed]

I am absolutely sure that it's not too much!
I dilute Cal-Mag at 5ml/gal(suggested: 5-15 ml/Gal)
I had one shot straight R/O water to the res. during the week(5 gal. per day approx.)
The other day I had R/o Water+Cal-Mag 5ml/Gal...and repeat till res. change once a week.
So I actually top off with 100% water at the end of the week.
Solution is always at 850-900 ppm.
If anything,it's not enough.

And thanks for the graphs!

And nice TOPS Gronut wish I'm on my way for those for this run..!!!!!
So preoccupied by my problems I almost missed them!

 

[Purpleseed]

Cycle was at 1Min on 5Min off.
Changed it for 30 Sec. ON and 2 Min. Off is that OK ?

Now why would'nt Canna suggest to put some pk13-14 for this week as well if it's so much needed???...that does'nt make sense!??!!

 

[Guest]

Plastic welding is great but you have to use a good welder and there a ton of different plastics so obviously your rod must match. I've been welding sport bike fairings a couple times a week for almost 10 years with the same welder

http://www.delviesplastics.com/welding.htm


The welders that heat up a stick as you push it through like hot glue are pretty much crap. You've gotta use the type that blows hot air at the tip and feed the rod in by hand while heating the rod AND the plastic part at the same time. ABS plastic is common and is easily welded so I will likely use that to make a tub but it's pretty expensive to buy by the sheet.

 

[Guest]

Your Welcome Puple.


This was the one I purchased, it looks similar. Mostly I think it was my POS compressor my dad gave me. But it just seemed to blow holes in the plastic I was trying to weld or melt the tip to a gooey mess that would just rub around on the melting plastic bucket or tub.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=41592

I got it thinking I could weld some of these tubs together to make a nice pimp ass hypertub, but after poking a few holes and just smelling up the place I gave up and went back to hot glue and adhesives. I'll play with it again some day..lol

I only wish I had a cheap ass hot wire...that would make this styrofoam shit a breeze. But I think my rig will hold once all the joints are adhered and in place. I'm taking my time to let everything cure and firm up rather than rushing as I'm not in a hurry anyhow.

 

[JustATry]

Yo brothers! GroNut - glad to see you ventured this way!

All is well in this neck of the woods. Just waiting on my damn clones! Jeez, it seems like these take forever when you are waiting on them...

 

[Guest]

Damn...look at all those stems.

Yeah...funny how impatient you can get after running aero for a while. Its like...'common' already!'

I swear in another 20 years we'll have like microwave popcorn, but it will be insta-bud 24 hours in a TAG chamber and you're ready for harvest! lol Yeah...I can dream I know.

Purpleseed - Ionic Boost is similar to PK 13/14 but actually better if you don't want to use it.

http://www.growthtechnology.com/nute-ionic-boost.asp

All boosting is usually recommended at the onset of flowering or bud-set as I call it. Once the flowers are starting to bloom you need increased amounts of K specifically for all the budsites and pods (that is what they are made of) and P is in demand because of the accelerated activity as P is the main element in the plants' ATP complex that manufacters and stores energy.

Nitrogen is only needed for balance and its part in facilitation of nitrogen fixation. Macros are always in need, but not out of balance and not a huge amount, K will be.

You'll see it as a drop in your Ph as the K is absorbed and the Nitrogen is left to remain with any added P. This usually appears in TAG as an immediate overnight drop from 6.0 to 4.8 in 12 hours. Additional K must be added repeatedly until the system balances off and the chelated K in the nutrients (I'm assuming) build up enough to keep the Ph stable.

The addition of PK boosting in the 5th week or around that time will eleviate the drop in K and P, which is proably why it was created as a stand alone. Non-fruiting plants don't need such high demands if they are not preparing pods for seeds.

You see in the Cal/Mag Plus by Botanicare that they use a very heavily chelated Nitrogen source (so it isn't readily available) and the rest is actual Ca, Fe and Mg. This is why it is a good base for RO that has no nutrient content. Base water carries all these elements easily as ground water, P/K and stuff like that has to be created by chemical reactions and the release of carbos and shit.

They are all, however, building blocks.

HYDROPLEX 0.5-4-10 is a softer organic PK boost from Botanicare...however I can't get on their sight tonight for some reason. They must be upgrading.

Any rate, you want to have really well chelated N and P and K in the system for flowering I think to offset that rapid burn like that...and it happens every grow...which is why I'm trying Ionic this time. Their boost is designed for eactly that.

If that helps any? lol

 

[Purpleseed]

Well,it really helps my understanding of the plant's needs about pk13-14 but not answering my question on Jurassic!
I'm returning it anyways,I don't like it,not comfortable with it.

 

[Guest]

Oh, sorry...I didn't understand your question completely. I'd return it as well...stay away from 'water soluble' power nutrients unless you plan to heat them on a stove and mix them throughly.

You're better off just ordering Cal/Mag Plus for your purposes as your Jurassic looks like a bad knock off.

How is that?

If you use Ionic however, you wont need to add any Cal/Mag initially I believe. It is designed for RO as they also have a Hard-water version for Tap water users.

 

[riprock]

Not trying to correct you, but POD RACER, you said that TAG has only been around for 8 months.

Although I didn't call it "TAG", I posted my system here and over on OG over a year ago, like the beginning of 2004 using diaphragm pumps and nozzles that mist 5 - 50 microns along with the Cannakit timers that I also now see you guys using. I think this is way before the time I see R2G (on OG) doing this. He seems to be the one over there that started the TAG thread. So unless you mean "TAG" itself, I've been doing this method for at least a couple of years not including the time it took to figure it out!

I even showed closeups of how to make a timer with the cannakit timers that would run the feed pump and then run another pump to drain the water because my tubs are completely drained after they get sprayed for @30 secs. I don't let any water sit in the tubs.

Although, I still use higher pressures than you guys the rest of what I see you doing is pretty much what I've been doing. I think you guys make your systems way too complicated though.

The posts were titled "High Pressure / Low Flow" or "5 - 50 Micron Aeroponics. Aero doesn't get easier than this" or something like that I forget, but they were here and on OG. Unfortunately, during that time, I had problems with my ex-GF. So I eventually took all my pics down and removed the info I had out there and put things away for a bit. I just recently came back to OG and ICMAG and I am glad to see that others have finally picked up this method of growing.

On OG, people were very interested and the threads picked up fairly quickly. I believe I told them it would use less water, they could have a smaller res and use less nutes and stuff and the phenomenal growth rates but I think only a couple of people understood what I was showing them.

I think Rouhea (who actually told me about this site back then) and ScrogDaddy on OG were very interested. Rouhea tried to build his own system but his was way too complicated also. Unfortunately, I think he gave up trying it. I don't need to use any glue, PVC, hose clamps, although I do use zip ties for my hoses going to my chiller and I don't need solenoid valves or accumulator tanks either.

Anyway, I posted a message on OG when I saw your thread. Yes, this is the most awesome way to grow!

I'll be lurking... Watching...!!

EDIT:
==========
Just for clarification, the reason I asked this question is because someone asked POD RACER if you could grow a tree this way and his reply was:

"So would everyone...lol But we haven't got that far yet. TAGing has only been around in this arena for about 8 months."

That is what caused me to ask that question.

Being stoned though and at the time, happy to see you guys, I got off track and I never really got to the reason I posted in the first place which was that other people have grown this way and that someone probably has grown something pretty big.
==========

 

[AeRoGaNiC]

Knock knock, guess whos here

 

[20kw dreams]

WTF? Pod Racer? Did you run out of... Room 2 Grow? lol...LMAO..j/k

Hey JAT, You know what's fuckin crazy? I was thinking last week of making something just like yours, but out of acrylic sheet, instead of plywood and pond liner. Would be expensive though, because 5/8" acrylic is like $8 per ft2. Are you having pooling problems in the bottom of that thing in the folds of the pond liner? Submersible or external pump? I was thinking of trying to make it all sealed, except for connections for the water chiller and grommets for the pump cord.

 

[AeRoGaNiC]

There are cheaper ways around that. You can expoxy the styrofoam, or you can simply get some wood and put a waterproof sealant on it as long as you know it wont break down under acidic pH conditions or elemental exposure. ....be creative.

 

[Guest]

Hey Riprock - Didn't mean to steal your thunder buddy. I meant 'TAG' specifically and the concept of a community of people running systems I defined as such, not the birth of Aeroponics (I believe that dates back a little more that a couple years ago). As a matter of fact I think I read the first article was published in 1921 by some professor in Wisc. I think. You aren't that old are you? :wink:


I know Lumpytrichomes would say he was..and he was using the 50µ nozzles and high pressure long before me.

I was merely drawing attention to the fact that little is known about running these rigs as this particular community (I cultivated) is only about 8 months old. I've been running it longer than that as well, though probably not the veteran like yourself and would greatly appreciate anything you would like to contribute other than asserting credit for delivering aeroponics to OG.

20K I changed handles because I'm tired of publicly seeing 2RG butchered by the masses as he was a worthy teacher and helped many. I don't care to watch the witch burn I'm sorry I don't enjoy those sports.

It would have probably just been wiser to let it die with my threads there...this shit seriously sucks all the fun out of sharing. But I knew it was like this at 4 y/o I should get it at close to 40, eh?

 

[Guest]

In honor of my ex-mentor who was a fanatic about accuracy in information:

A little bit of history…
The first aeroponic system was developed in the early part of the past century at the University of Pia in Italy by Dr Franco Massantini, which led to the development of the colonna di coltura. This consisted of an aeroponic pipe supporting three relatively small cultivation trays fitted with sprinklers and covered with polystyrene lids. Although several plant types were grown successully, it proved to be expensive. The system was modified to a vertical layout, whereby crops were cultivated in a multi-layered system. A zinc-coated metal frame supported two, three, four and five vertical levels of channels. Plants were arranged in the channels, covered with dark plastic film to protect plant roots from light. Seedlings were then inserted in the film at suitable distances apart.

But it was only in the last part of the century that aeroponics has seen extensive use (Zobel, et al., 1976; Hubick et al., 1982; and Nir, 1982). Early work involved the use of spray nozzles, and with the exception of the work of Zobel et al. (1976) and others building upon that research, there has been little use of misting techniques other than nozzles. A major drawback to many nozzle systems is the accumulation of salts at the nozzle tip. This frequently reduces spray quantity and may cause a severe reduction, effectively terminating the experiment.

The original design by Zobel et al. (1976) made use of a motor with a spinner to create a fine mist from a reservoir of nutrient solution. This design is similar to that used in greenhouse humidifiers and cool mist vaporizers used in the home. A major draw back observed early on was the vibration of the plants and root systems caused by the motor. Additionally, after extended growth, roots would grow down into the nutrient reservoir and then grow in a hydroponic fashion. Despite these relatively minor problems the system proved extremely successful for the study of nodulation and nitrogen fixation in peas and host of non-legumes (Callaham, et al., 1979).

 

[Guest]

I also know someone was asking for my NASA docs... Do your own homework buddy.

 

[riprock]

Hey POD RACER, don't get me wrong, I know that I didn't start High Pressure / Low Flow Aero.. I was simply pointing out that others were doing it already. That's why I was wondering if you were speaking of TAG specifically (like I asked) or Using High Pressure @50 micron misting in general. Which is all I was really asking.

It's just when I was trying to show it before, no one seemed to know anything about it.

Also, I don't know why the tone of your whole post to me was rather childish, especially "I've been running it longer than that as well, though probably not the veteran like yourself and would greatly appreciate anything you would like to contribute other than asserting credit for delivering aeroponics to OG. ". But I guess it must mean that I've hurt your feelings somehow by trying to let you know that if you weren't speaking specifically about TAG then that it had been done before.

Also, just to let you know, I never asserted anything of the sort.

And like I said.. It's cool that others here and on OG are finally starting to understand it and that it's not as hard as people seem to think.

 

[Guest]

What touches a nerve rip is that I don't understand why you guys hunt me down...
If I leave one thread and start my own, you follow to insult. If I leave an entire site and change my handle, you all follow to insult.

I'm just not sure what the point of appearing on someone else's thread just to call them out.

A question goes like this: "Are you talking about the aeroponic technology only being 8 months old PR or are you talking about your own defined 'TAG' style of growing?"

See...there are NOT 2 or 3 paragraphs following that to explain how I've been using it way before you. No paragraphs on how others are better or know more or what makes me so hot...

Its just a simple question without an agenda. Your post(s) as you felt compelled to post on not only this site but OG, has an agenda...or better a vendetta. That is the nerve you touched.

None of you guys ever just come into my thread and ask a polite question or pose a problem to be solved or share any fuckin' experience other than 'been there done that better'.

So, WTF am I suppose to get out of it? You didn't really say anything important in your post other than to point out my apparent self-aggrandizement.

The reason people follow and contribute to my threads usually, assholes aside, is because I usually try to help people with their problems...not defend myself from their acusations.

I mean..what did you want to know? Why I think I created TAG? or what?

I created TAG..its my branding...I designed the entire parameter so everyone could easily plug and play. I can say I own that...no one ever used that term, TAE or TAR or any of that shit before R2G, and now you do see it everywhere in OG.

Thank you R2G for breaking it down for the idiots and assholes? No...don't think so. We'll just burn him and claim credit. So...WTF do you want me to do here pal?

People don't follow your threads probably cause you don't actually help anyone. Try reading all 230 pages of my fuckin' threads and look at all 1800 pictures all documenting my Aeroponics, then tell me what I can brag about or not, or claim as fame. My products and my protégé and the DOA stand as testament to what my master created—Long live the AEROCANNA!

So, was I talking about light? Or what?....I lost track, again...

 

[riprock]

Dude,

Right now, I'm guessing you're R2G. I had no idea, and I didn't hunt you down. Take a look, I've been here a bit longer than you.

I was very happy to see people to discuss this with but now I'm not.

Calling you out... ??? What the fuck? Sounds like paranoia... Take some medication or something.

I thought this was a place to exchange info. I guess I'm not supposed to talk about my system. Sorry, I didn't realize I wasn't suppose to talk about it. Thank you for letting me know the rules.

And since you obviously weren't around back when I had my thread going, I helped everyone who asked. I had to remove my info as I said.

I didn't say what I do is any better than what you do. I don't know what the hell you're reading and I haven't read enough of your thread to know exactly what you're doing.

I mentioned a couple of differences between our systems and you take it as an insult.

Anyway, enough of trying to at least be cordial and explain myself to you.

Like I said on OG, don't worry I won't bother you again.

 

[Guest]

Dude, (and god how I hate how people use that term...lol).

"Anyway, I posted a message on OG when I saw your thread." Which thread? My TAG thread? On OG?

...but you don't know who I am..so you just make it a point to check all the pot growing sites to set the Aeroponics record straight or something?

Dude, you posted twice in both my icmag and og threads how you've been doing this before I 'invented' TAG...which isn't what I stated in the first place. What? Were you possessed by the water gods to seek some sort of clarity on the issue?

I'm glad you felt like sharing your construction, but starting off by insulting the originator of the system and this particular thread, as well as one on OG, while trying to establish your own 'pioneering' efforts, I'm just still not quite sure what your contribution was suppose to be...?

That ..you were doing this far longer? OK..? And you don't need pvc glue and shit...ok, ...??? And? What?


11 posts in 1.5 years? I've already doubled the amount of information you've ever posted here in over a year and half? But I'm the dick..? Ah..ok... :wink:

Like I said, back to ...what was it lighting? Again... or has this thread now decided to follow the same course as OG?

See JAT, I told you not to invite bad seeds here...now they are going to choke this thread out too. Excellent.

I mean seriously...Dude, if you want to contribute...then why don't you post some images of your rigs and your grows and explain your experience rather than just trying to usurp authority on this thread via clout.

Put your money where your mouth is, show me you know what the fuck you are talking about...don't just run your mouth off about it.


That is exactly what I'm talking about. If I read a thread, don't agree with the moderator, I'll post my personal pictures with explanation as well as my 'respectful' differing experience.

And I'm sorry, but not to toot my own horn here...Dude..but you should kiss the ass of anyone that hand feeds you free information, you know...it isn't like I get paid to contribute for 2 years of my life to educating others online how grow their own cash crops. The satisfaction is suppose to be in the enjoyment of sharing and discussing, not defending or pointless posts about authenticity or origination.

Like, who gives a shit...Dude?

I'm trying to sit here and answer vague questions from every tard on the planet that hasn't even run a full grow of anything yet and you want to come telling everyone how you've righted some evil misconception that R2G Created TAGing (which he did..lol) or Aeroponics (which...eh..duh...) and yak that you and others did this a long time ago but no one followed along. Well...great! Thanks for contributing that useless information. I'll file that right over...well...here.. ok?



Meanwhile outside of Lumpy I've yet to see one individual beat my rootshots on any site and well...if you all are so fuckin' hotshots, where the fuck are all your Pom Pom root pictures and bud shots? I've amassed 1800 in 2 years, and like I said...like 2800 posts teaching and helping (well... no..so I don't get corrected again). About 1800 posts teaching and helping others....and about 1000 just wiping shit of my face.

So excuse me if I'm a little tire of the taste of shit in my mouth, K? (that is rhetorical..you don't need to reply).

 

[JustATry]

Damn guys! Let's just grow, no more fucking arguments! This is supposed to be an informative thread.

PodRacer - you need to smoke some TrainWreck. CALM DOWN buddy! Everyone has the right to an opinion, whether it's in this thread or elsewhere. If you don't agree then don't reply.

riprock, if you have ideas to share - then share. But don't criticize with nothing to add, it's just the principle of the matter. Let us hear about ideas you have and obstacles you have overcome. I would be delighted to know how you manage to keep everything together using "...higher pressures than you guys..." and without "...any glue, PVC, hose clamps". No "...solenoid valves or accumulator tanks either". Wow You really have it figured out. How about showing us all how to do it?

Aeroganic - good to see ya' buddy! How's shit going?

20K - same to you. That sucks about the grow, everything alright? I am sure you could build anything out of the acrylic. Two downfalls though; cost and moving. No pooling issues at all actually. The bottom of the pond liner is pretty much wrinkle free, if you can believe that. My tables drain into a 5 gallon bucket and then a pump kicks on once the bucket is half full and pumps to the rez. Works well so far. Everything is sealed on my tables except one hole which feeds the foggers. But I have had it running for almost a week now without any leaks!

Now let's grow!