TAG - Landing (Resource for True Aero Growing)

[Swimmer]

GroNut,

My experience with humififiers is that they produce huge amounts of heat in the grow room and may further your need to vent. An air conditioner removes heat and humidity along with allowing you to keep a sealed room and maintain CO2 levels.

How high does the humidity get? As long as it is not over 80% you should be fine. High humidity aides plant growth dramaticaly. If you can keep 75% humidity and your temps at a reasonable level I envy you. Most guys have to add humidifiers/misters to keep the humidity up. You want the greenhouse environment. High humidity is only a problem if your strain is supceptable to mold, and then only during late flower.

Maintaining temp, humidity and CO2 is a real balencing act sometimes.

 

[Guest]

Swimmer,

Temps are not a problem right now. Ran a test last night and kept the temps 85 average with the dehum. on. This should be good to make best use of c02. I have to vent to controll humidity levels (up to 75%).

I don't think an a/c could controll the humidity effectively unless it was on a lot and in that case it would likely put my temps below optimal. But I will look into that more. If I don't vent at all maybe the temps will rise enough to justify running the a/c more. This means the a/c would have to keep the room from 75, maybe 80% down to 50% at all times. Don't know if an a/c would do this. Anyone have input on this? This option would leave me with no hum. controll at lights out where the dehumidifier can still be used.

I've done some research and NYCD can have mold problems if not kept in check, especially since it's a good 9-10 week strain they'll be in there for a while. My target is 50% humidity.

 

[00420]

I have not run c02 before, next run will be the first time. I'm gonna have to take a few days to play with my exhaust fan, light cooling, and the new dehumidifier to get some settings down to make sure I won't waste the gas. I ran the HPS for the first day cycle last night and I kept the temps around 85f which I think is perfect. It did peak at 90f but that shouldn't be a prob with gas. The foam top on the lids did it's job and my root zone stayed below 70f The t5 rack came out and I have a bitchen new shop light for now.. If it does such a good job making the plants look good...I'll have to time it so I'm standing under it when some hotties come in...hehe Doubt it will have the same affect

Humidity on the other hand is where I need more controll. I bought a homer depot 45 pint dehum. and it's not a very nice machine. I have to do some more runs with it but it seems it can only put a small dent in the hum. and not totally control it like I thought it might. I have my exhaust fan set 15min on 15 off and when its off the hum. jumps pretty high, up to 70-75%, it drops to 45-50% with the fan on. So I have to take a look c02 sequencing cycles to see if I can make it work without just exhausting the gas that I just put in.

i would not run co2 with that much hum'

mold love's co2 as much as your plants do & your right nycd lov's to powder up

i run a/c even in the winter time. it keeps my rez,room,plant's at temp, it also dose most definitely help with hum' sence i put mine in i have not had run a dehu.....
only time i had to run a dehu was @ night when the a/c dont run but now i just run my outtake at night & sold my dehu

when running co2 plants like to be a lil hotter 85-90 deg's if i remember right.
they intake more co2 @ higher temps. but higher temps bring hum' witch brings mold......


just remember all room's work in a crazy way.........

for my co2 i run a green air co2 reader..... i have a tank & a burnner.
when theres heat prob's u dont want a burner but it is much cheaper to run then a tank.

when lights are on i run the fan for my lights & blow it back into the room. i only run the cool tubes to move heat from the plants.... not to cool the room my a/c is big enuff that it dose it just fine.. this way i can run a closed room

 

[00420]

GroNut,

My experience with humififiers is that they produce huge amounts of heat in the grow room and may further your need to vent. An air conditioner removes heat and humidity along with allowing you to keep a sealed room and maintain CO2 levels.

How high does the humidity get? As long as it is not over 80% you should be fine. High humidity aides plant growth dramaticaly. If you can keep 75% humidity and your temps at a reasonable level I envy you. Most guys have to add humidifiers/misters to keep the humidity up. You want the greenhouse environment. High humidity is only a problem if your strain is supceptable to mold, and then only during late flower.

Maintaining temp, humidity and CO2 is a real balencing act sometimes.

i agree 100% with him on this.........
except 75% hum' is to high for me...
i like under 60% when you have huge cola's the mold can hit omost any strain.....

 

[Guest]

Yeah, that's why I'm testing it out to even see if I can make the right air conditions to benefit from using c02. My target hum. is 50% even 60% would be okay. I can get the temps 85f easy enuf but can't get the hum. down. The dehum. machine sucks about 550 watts and I was hoping that it would click on only when humidity rose, not run the full 12 hour day. To seal up the room and run a/c would suck 800-1000 watts or so and have to run the full 12 hour day cycle so that's not even worth it for me...(small garden)

Guess that's why testing the waters is a good idea before spending the dough on more shit.. How many amps/watts is your ac?

 

[JustATry]

GroNut - I vent my room 24/7. My humiditiy was near yours, but since the introduction of my dehumidifier, I never rise above 40%. I have found anything above 40%, in my case, has lead to PM breakout. I have yet to try a sulfur burner, which I am sure will solve the problem, but the duhumidifier has kept everything in check.

I was talking to some local growers and they said they just run the CO2 15 on/15 off and vent 24/7. This gives them the 2000PPM desired CO2 level. Now I have yet to try this, but if this is the case that would be rather easy to do. I am going to need to redo my whole ventilation setup for this new grow. I am thinking a 800cfm can fan pullng air through the scrubber, then blowing through the lights should do the trick. My room is 2000 sq/ft, so that ventilation should be adequate. Pics to follow soon!

As I said, here are some pics. Just coming up to week five. I think these are going to run to atleast 8 weeks, they are not even close right now.



Pic 1, TW getting frosty. Pic 2, table #1. Pic #3, table #2.

Pic #4, HDF with the tentacle pistils. Pics #5 and #6, misc bud shots.

ROOTS!

Moms for 3rd run (HDF, Blueberry)

Clones rooted, vegging, and waiting (Trainwreck, White Widow, and White RhinoxBlueberry)

 

[Guest]

JAt, your shit is rockin... Those roots look super thick, like big pony tails. Looks like table 2 is going mad. That's the table that got some veg looks like. You don't waste any time either I see... I need to get better at that.

That's promising on the c02 thing. It would be easier to set up like you plan to and keep cycling the gas while venting. Save some electricity that way as well. There is a short article in H/Times about it and the author cycles his c02 15/15 and cycles his exhaust fan 15/15 opposite the gas and gets 1500ppm so I won't scrap the plan yet.... more testing. Thanks for the scoop.

 

[00420]

Yeah, that's why I'm testing it out to even see if I can make the right air conditions to benefit from using c02. My target hum. is 50% even 60% would be okay. I can get the temps 85f easy enuf but can't get the hum. down. The dehum. machine sucks about 550 watts and I was hoping that it would click on only when humidity rose, not run the full 12 hour day. To seal up the room and run a/c would suck 800-1000 watts or so and have to run the full 12 hour day cycle so that's not even worth it for me...(small garden)

Guess that's why testing the waters is a good idea before spending the dough on more shit.. How many amps/watts is your ac?

i run a 25,000 btu.... 2 ton.....220/240 volt
but i allso got it that big cuz i was running 5000+watt's in a 15 x 12 room & a 6 x 9 with 2k using same a/c......

for a/c's it said that 3-4000 btu per 1k....

with cooled hood's u should not even need that..

btu to watts are 5000 btu = 500 watt's ( or close to that...)

i would sug a 10,000 btu for 2k..... for summer time

do you ventilat at night? is that when you hum is going up or is it when the lights on?

 

[Guest]

I have always vented 24/7 drawing air from outside. I just started playing with turning off the vent fan to bring temps up to 85f to make use of c02. With lights on, if the fan goes off for 15 mins the hum. jumps to 75% very fast. So my only challenge is to cut the humidity down. The dehum. I tried is a 45 pint 550 watt and doesn't work very well. My room is very small.. about 8'x3'

This pic shows the area at the left that I cut out to put any air control shit




I can try the a/c and seal the room so that the a/c runs enough to dehum. but I have to wonder if an additonal 1000 watts is worth the return that I would get from c02.

Right now I have my lights unsealed, uncooled and run my exhaust continuous and get 75f and 50-60% hum. This is pretty good for now but I do live near the coast and I get fog and drizzle a lot so without running any air control I'm at the mercy of whatever blows over my place.

Thanks for your input... :smile:

 

[Guest]

c02 generator, an open flame, to generate the c02, right? that'll decrease the humidity some, won't it.... coupled with air conditioner, i suppose you could divide between heat in from the flame and heat out from the a/c and get some reduction;

what do i know tho all i do is troll lol

 

[00420]

lmao... can u belive this guy...............hahha i got cash for a aero rig but not for seed's....... thats the funnyest thing i eva hurd

 

[Guest]

I never did get having to pay insurance on shipping. They should pay for their own insurance to cover their own screw ups.

"sir, would you like to pay extra to cover my insurance if I screw up your package?"...

 

[Guest]

Alright, I'm feeling a little better. I think I might go play on the swings if I can keep from being chased down and harassed again.

Anyhoo... :smile: I should be in the 8th week of my grow, though with a week of darkness I'm not sure where that puts my girls. Some look finished...especially my lovely little Bubble...the sole heiress and the Blueberry.

The current Rhinoxblue and Hog mom...for those that were keeping track.



They are in a weird state of some finishing budlets and new pistil growth...I'm just gonna let them run and see what happens. What the hell.



Meanwhile, the Peacekeeper is off in her own little world, I have no idea what she is doing, but she has her pom poms out..so I think she is ready to 'Get Excited! Yah!'

 

[Guest]

Oh yeah...the roots...sorry guys. :wink:

For those doubting the integrity of the TAG system.

Remember these roots have gone 5 days in complete dark with no power, no water and no air movement. Recovery is quick and swift.

Oh and notice the pic here on the left, as you see...no tap roots leading from the floor to the res. They are just touching the moist black plastic pond liner about 2 feet down and stopping. Another sign of a perfect TAE. Not as pure a TAE as GN has (your rig is rocking hard GN...I'm scared..lol), but you can see how a FAG or non-50µ system would result in long taps running through the drain to the res in search of food and water...clogging the drainfields and causing a back up in the system and rot.

On the topic of closed systems GN- you might try, if it is conducive of course, running your light exhaust through the room with a dehumidifier running in the room and run your exhaust fan in the grow space non-stop.

Think circles ..tight circles with balanced sides. You are compensating too much for an imbalance there in the rig, there is a simpler and more effective solution obviously. But you'll get it, no doubt. I just think you are trying to control a micro system that is going to be very difficult when you can use the external room as a buffer and exchange area.

Hot Dry Air out from the lights = Most cool air from the TAG pod exhaust.

In the room the air can compensate and the plants will, most likely like my own, balance the room for you. I'm not even using a Dehumidifier and at this point I don't even need a fan, just the A/C set at 71 to hold my root temps ...well the room as follows.



PS - though in late flower it has been shown that decreasing the humidity considerably to that of like 35% will result in greater resin production (i,e. THC the resin to protect from water loss) So a DH is great to have and use in the late flowering for increased frostiness. The DH can set the room Humidity and the plants will balance your chamber if they don't have to compete to cool the lamp as well. IMHO.

No comment on the CO2 crap. :smile:

Sorry for the long post:


JAT - Looking sweet as well... nice tropical rainforrest there... You'll be swimming in it soon enough.

I'm running at 1240 ppms right now with only RO and Max/Pot+ as a 50/50 cut. The Ph has held steady for over 2 days now at 5.8 I think my theory about dropping the Flower out at week 5 might be a solution to the K def beyond that point and possibly the slowed maturity. The N they use in DM1 is so highly available I think the increased amount of flower to compensate for the K def is locking it out further as well as the Ca. That would explain the def continuing at such high ppms. So far my girls look far better than I would have expected, considering all the moms died ...FAcloner. They rotted. But these girls will re-veg with no problems and will hopefully soon have a nice big new home to fill up. :smile: But my 2¢ for what it is worth.

 

[JustATry]

Nice to see everyone back again!

PR - that Bubble is lookin' mighty purtty. Are you going to let her go any further or chop?

I would concur with your thoughts on phasing out the Flower at week 5-6 and running on P+ and Max. I am just topping the rez, then bumping it back up to 1600 with P+, and adding Max @ 6mL per gallon I top with. So far things are looking good and I am seeing them pick back up after stalling for about 10 days. The leaves are dark and lush, so I think the N may to contributing to our problems. Good theory! We will see how it pans out.

GroNut - I will be playing with CO2 here shortly, once this grow finishes up. So I will be able to provide some test results. An interesting little test is with dry ice though. Hang a bucket above your plants with some water in it, then toss in some dry ice. Notice the orientation and stance of the leaves, then check back in about an hour. If yours provide the same results mine did, you will see your leaves pointing almost straight up. Pretty impressive little test I would say.

 

[Guest]

Good to see ya back POD..

Those plants look good for the shit they went through. Nice'n juicy looking buds. Good work you did on keeping them alive. They still trying to put some weight on at this point?

Thanks for the suggestions on setting up the air. There are quite a few scenarios that I want to test, starting with the easiest first so I don't have more major project to deal with. If I can't get somthing I like without major mods. I will go the the next step and maybe re-route my ventilation and try using the surrounding room as a buffer as you suggested, good idea. Originally I wanted to make the cabinet look like a plain 'ol storage thing on the wall so if my pops-in-law came over to fiddle with fishin rods or whatever it could pass with out raising suspicion Looks like I'll just have to keep going to his place...

A plant can only grow as fast as it's most limiting factor will allow, right? So this TAG is exposing more limiting factors now..lol. On to tackle the next one...

Thanks JAt, I'm anxious to see what you find.

 

[Swimmer]

Oh and notice the pic here on the left, as you see...no tap roots leading from the floor to the res. They are just touching the moist black plastic pond liner about 2 feet down and stopping. Another sign of a perfect TAE. Not as pure a TAE as GN has (your rig is rocking hard GN...I'm scared..lol), but you can see how a FAG or non-50µ system would result in long taps running through the drain to the res in search of food and water...clogging the drainfields and causing a back up in the system and rot.

I'm surprised that some of the more experienced growers have not chimed in on this. I am going to comment on the above quote. In my effort to keep this board civil and flame free please understand that it is ONLY my opinion.

Those roots are growing in that configuration for 2 reasons:

1. They are experiencing "air pruning" which occurs when roots hit the open air and stop growing. It is ABSOLUTLEY obvious (to me) by that classic look that they are underwatered. This also explains the poor stunted growth ontop.

2. The roots are short simply because the plants are small (although that may also be the cause).

Whichever the reason, it is plain to see from the photos that something is drastically wrong with those plants. Assuming temps, nutes and the rest is on par, IMO those roots that he is so proud of is what is retarding that grow.

 

[00420]

you keep your room the same as mine

 

[whereisbrianV.]

Swimmer show us your roots, I would love to see them. And how bout that rainforest system you said you run, don't think they could support those trees you showed a few post ago. I see a lot of inconsistencies in you fantasy’s opps I mean stories, keep them strait because I am getting confused. And lastly you say Aero is ALL about DO then why would the roots stop growing because of contact to air, wouldn't that make more O2 available. The only retarded growth around here is my own because I am waiting on seedlings to mature. JAT, Grownut, & PR are all running a systems that are built on the same principles so how would one retard with out the others following. Any reasons for a stunt in growth are usually explained by power failures, equipment failures, or maybe a hurricane (guy makes it trough a hurricane but keeps his Canna alive and you give him shit about stunted growth). End Rant.

High temps will render your CO2 enrichment useless; the stomas retract to stop the loss of water, which stops the exchange of gases. Keep the air moving and the room cool to obtain a normal exchange. CO2+water=carbonic acid so make sure that high concentrations of gas don't rub shoulders with water. I believe someone explained in great detail all the interworkings of the gas exchange but I can't find it but maybe that person will shed some light on the subject. Peace and long live the DOA!

 

[JustATry]

Swimmer - it seems like you have selective reading/memory. Did you not read a couple pages back that PodRacer was just in a hurricane and lost power for a couple days? I think he did a pretty fucking commedable job oh keeping his girls alive despite the conditions that were thrown at him.

Since we are running identical systems, like brianv stated, we must all be seeing this "air pruning" huh. Well, I can tell you that my roots are atleast 8" in diameter and as solid as a bat. I would like to smack you upside the head with one of these "air pruned" roots and see if I could knock some sense into you.

I thought you said you weren't coming back here again?

Originally posted by Swimmer

OK, I'll leave your private thread to the two/three of you. I feel that I have said nothing offensive unless you consider the truth offensive. Regarding your quest for knowledge: I haven't heard anything that I could not have gotten from a first year horticulture student, nor have I been shown examples of stellar results.

I know I for one didn't ask for your presence again...