Surprise...the game is rigged

[Plant Early]

The British pound stirling started out as a pound of stirling silver over 400 years ago and is still the top currency in the world but has lost over 99% of its value since then.

The Denarius was the silver coin of Rome...it showed up in 211 BC and by the time of its last appearance around 270 AD it contained zero silver.

The Denarius was the Coin of Rome like the British Pound Stirling is of Britain and the US Dollar is of the USA.

And few seem to know why coins debase?

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Does it?

If gold purchases the same amount of goods at $1500 USD value as it does at $1100 has it really lost "value". The gold hasnt changed - its preserved purchase power. The dollar has fluctuated against gold. At $1500 the dollar buys less gold then it did at $1100.

Its not about the manipulated paper value of gold - its what it can purchase. Gold doesnt really go up/down in a sense.. it merely accounts for the amount of dollars in circulation chasing it.

My $1500 gold can go to $500 for all care provided it still purchases the same amount of goods. $500 gold would mean that the USD is strong as ever and could buy a lot more items.

The same can be said about any object valued in a manipulated fiat currency.

But I'm referring to the monetary adjusted price of metal based on how much money is out there. Obviously they can overshoot in either direction during their price moves.. This is why one must do their research before buying at higher un-supported prices created by the paper market. That higher price ($1900 gold / $49 silver) only existed because traders drove it up before taking profits. Un-wise to buy when their positions are loaded.. safer to buy when paper volume is low.. such as NOW in silver.

The gold I purchased 30 years ago at $300/oz is worth the same ounce purchased at today's price. The same forces that make commodities rise can reverse. There's no alchemical formula that says wheat, soybeans and pork bellies rise and fall with the value of gold. You'd have to run your own monetary system based on the idea that everything you plan to buy and sell is valued on the current value of gold.

Jeremiah Johnson won't be able to do that. He'll take what he can get like everybody else and gamble when to hold and when to fold.


Gold ain't the magic pill or at least one country on earth would attempt to swallow it.

 

[FlowerFarmer]

The British pound stirling started out as a pound of stirling silver over 400 years ago and is still the top currency in the world but has lost over 99% of its value since then.

The Denarius was the silver coin of Rome...it showed up in 211 BC and by the time of its last appearance around 270 AD it contained zero silver.

The Denarius was the Coin of Rome like the British Pound Stirling is of Britain and the US Dollar is of the USA.

And few seem to know why coins debase?

Any why we allow those in power to blatantly steal from us without anyone caring at all?

Real money you want? Sorry folks.. its too expensive to create now ?!?..how about some clad and nickle and we'll call it even.

If men tried that shit with their wives and diamond rings we'd all be dead a long time ago.

 

[FlowerFarmer]

The gold I purchased 30 years ago at $300/oz is worth the same ounce purchased at today's price.

Exactly..what does that tell you about the purchasing power of your dollar?

What you say is true because commodity prices are being controlled. The Fed is not allowing true price discovery in the markets.. because it goes against their paper sham. They are going to dilute the USD until it busts...guarantee it.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Exactly..what does that tell you about the purchasing power of your dollar?

It should suggest to you that the price of gold can fall. I'm not engaging in a what's best scenario for your investment. Don't take my word for it. We have many decades of gold-standard history and you're apparently only considering information that sounds pleasant.

What you say is true because commodity prices are being controlled. The Fed is not allowing true price discovery in the markets.. because it goes against their paper sham. They are going to dilute the USD until it busts...guarantee it.

The National Bank was controlled - by a Congress who didn't know what they were doing because they were predominantly lawyers and landowners, not bankers.

The "sham" is Alex Jones, et al perpetuating the myth that finance is as simple as saying metal has to back paper. Again, I'm not trying to influence your investment concerns but my 30 year chart of ups and downs would reflect the interesting ride and the present isn't immune to the past. The value of gold can and may wane without the world of commodities following along. Gold's tied to the dollar which is valued against GDP and the strength of key international currencies. Gold is also tied to manipulation and hoarded to the point we can only estimate how much actually exists. A gold monetary system would very likely round it all up, just to know what we have.

Don't take my word for it. We already lived this stuff long enough to ensure we're not making that mistake again. It's all documented if you ever wish to check out all the down sides.

 

[Plant Early]

The abandonment of the gold standard made it possible for the welfare statists to use the banking system as a means to an unlimited expansion of credit. In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation. There is no safe store of value. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the hidden confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the statists' antagonism toward the gold standard.

Alan Greenspan

 

[FlowerFarmer]

^exactly.

Don't take my word for it. We already lived this stuff long enough to ensure we're not making that mistake again. It's all documented if you ever wish to check out all the down sides.

But what mistake are we making with an unlimited currency created out of debt? Obviously putting our livelihoods in the hands of those of their own interests. The people of a country should be able to save in their currency without becoming poorer over the years as their savings are stolen from them.

I guess its just "better" for them to inflate/replace/start over with a currency at the expense of the common man.

 

[Luv-U-Long-Time]

^exactly.

But what mistake are we making with an unlimited currency created out of debt? Obviously putting our livelihoods in the hands of those of their own interests. The people of a country should be able to save in their currency without becoming poorer over the years as their savings are stolen from them.

It's the corporations fault, but what they wont tell you is that this is how they fund the redistribution of wealth...they rail against their own cause.

Better(lower standard)living through taxation

 

[HempKat]

I understand what you're saying... but I always make the mistake to look at these threads when certain regulars are always posting their "brilliant" takes on the economy... it's like hearing a girl with long nails scratch a class-room board hehehehe... my reply was very general and not specific, my bad though. we could expand on the gold issue; but my woman is making delicious food that I'm getting ready to eat... but let me say that gold is just a hyped up thing just as facebook, with a longer track record as you say since it has been here longer than facebook but hyped still.

No worries, as I said, you seemed to have misunderstood how it came up so I was trying to correct that for you. I'm not one of these types that expect people to read thru a multiple page thread just to understand a particular aspect.

 

[bombadil.360]

One may pile it up and secure it nice and tight but it's the $ figure on somebody's piece of paper that says what it's worth. If one buys it for $1500/oz and the paper price dips, so does the real value.

these kids will never get this.

they have bought into the hype already, they actually think gold has some sort of inherent value beyond the hype.

I have vinyl records older than them; no time to try to convince some young 'gangstas' that their gold-teeth won't have any value if the currency that says it does fails.

these kids imagine that in a world where economy has collapsed, that they could actually go trade their gold in in exchange of food lol...

 

[Plant Early]

Critics of the gold coin standard dismiss its long stability of value. The critics have a vision of a new mankind. This new collective mankind can rationally agree on anything they want to serve as money. There is no longer any need for the barbarous metal, as John Maynard Keynes once called gold.

But then the larceny in men's hearts begins to find new ways to get rich at the expense of the public. The public does not understand these new schemes. Masses of people once understood what a gold coin was. Their successors do not understand what a futures contract is, or a derivatives contract. Neither did the well-educated fools who lost trillions of dollars a few years ago, and whose careers were salvaged only by the Federal Reserve and the Treasury, as run by a Goldman Sachs former CEO.

The Byzantine gold standard lasted 700 years (320s—1030s). The modern gold coin standard lasted only for a century, 1815—1914. It broke apart because of World War I. Governments wanted to inflate, and the gold coin standard hampered this. So, politicians and central bankers abolished it by fiat.

Modern warfare does not deal lightly with restraints on state power. The gold coin standard was such a limit. It transferred to common people the power to veto the war effort, merely by taking their bank IOUs to gold to the bank and demanding gold coins.

When politicians and bankers agree to be limited by gold-owning citizens, gold is a valuable thing to store. But it sometimes gets far more valuable when governments and their agents, central bankers, inflate the currency unit.

 

[FlowerFarmer]

these kids will never get this.

they have bought into the hype already, they actually think gold has some sort of inherent value beyond the hype.

I have vinyl records older than them; no time to try to convince some young 'gangstas' that their gold-teeth won't have any value if the currency that says it does fails.

these kids imagine that in a world where economy has collapsed, that they could actually go trade their gold in in exchange of food lol...

Not quite gramps..

Gold is in a cycle right now and is going to account of the expansion and continued expansion of our currency. Collapse or not gold has been and is going to continue for some time to outpace every other asset class.

The point is not to trade gold for food in some type of doomsday scenario, but rather sell your gold to purchase whatever next undervalued asset you might choose.. likely commercial real estate at its bottom.

Gold while being real money is just a financial tool in todays games. There is a point to exit precious metals...just as those whom exited the real estate at the right times.. and stocks at the right times. They are ahead of inflation..by parking their wealth in the right places. Right now.. we are in a precious metals cycle because our currency is failing.

You dont ride each "wealth cycle" up and down.. you step off the train onto the next asset class to amass true wealth.


But eh.. if you've got other suggestions lets here em. Holmes..

 

[bombadil.360]

But it sometimes gets far more valuable when governments and their agents, central bankers, inflate the currency unit.

how does gold become more valuable when the currency unit becomes inflated?

if by 'valuable' you mean it will take more currency units to buy gold, it is simply because the unit is inflated, not because gold has became more valuable...

and in circles we go...

Flower, so you think if you invest in gold now, because currencies are becoming inflated, is a good way to 'park' your wealth; how then are you going to convert this gold back into the same value before inflation?

you can't.

how do you 'park' your wealth in commerical real estate in a weak economy? how would you then have this real-estate produce income when no one would have the money to invest in your real estate?

paper money gives value to gold, if paper money becomes inflated, so does the price of gold, but the aquisition power will still be the same, or even less.

a self-powered desalination plant on the other hand, will constantly produce a need based on real-economy, unlike gold, for example.

the list of things in which you could invest your money to produce real-valuables based on real-economy is big and not-dependent on inflation or the value of gold that is determined by the state of any given unit of currency.

just ask the Rothschild if they invest in gold... ask how come their investments have not suffered due to the recent crisis... they buy aluminum instead of gold, go figure

they invest in wine instead of bling-bling. invest in art instead of gold...

etc... etc... etc...

it is tiring beating on this old dead-horse...

 

[dagnabit]

Then why do so?

Do you think you are going to convince anyone that monetizing debt is good?

Do you think you will convince anyone to ignore thousands of years of history?

Why do you flog the equine?

 

[bombadil.360]

Then why do so?

because it is pitiful to see that sort of misguided "understanding" in the forum.

growers usually tend to be bright entities whose intelligence penetrates things with acuracy.

but then we also have this minority of inmature intellects trying to roar like lions, but end up only sounding like hyenas.

by no means do I delude myself into thinking that anything I post will make anyone change their views though.

like I said to Hempkat, I make the mistake of looking in only to find a car-wreck.

have your fun by any means though.

be good.

 

[HempKat]

Exactly..what does that tell you about the purchasing power of your dollar?

What you say is true because commodity prices are being controlled. The Fed is not allowing true price discovery in the markets.. because it goes against their paper sham. They are going to dilute the USD until it busts...guarantee it.

Are they? Or is it just that even the great and mighty China, world's largest consumer of commodities, is also feeling the ills of the bad world economy?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47561828/ns/business-us_business/

 

[HempKat]

When politicians and bankers agree to be limited by gold-owning citizens, gold is a valuable thing to store. But it sometimes gets far more valuable when governments and their agents, central bankers, inflate the currency unit.

That's smoke and mirrors though, the only time that value goes up in a way one can feel benefit is briefly right after the inflation. Then everything else inflates. Sure gold might be more valuable on paper when comparing an old price of $1000 per ounce to a new price of $1500 per ounce but is it really an increase in value if everything else has gone up at the same rate and you need more gold to buy the same amount of stuff you bought when it was worth $1000 per ounce?

The fallicy in stockpiling gold is the expectation that we will return to it as the standard of value everything else is placed on? What if say for example, because of our desire to conserve oil and have less impact on nature we make Lithium the new standard because of it's importance in making practical rechargeable batteries? Or the minerals necessary to make computer chips? If that happened in a new economy then where would that leave everyone sitting on gold?

 

[SpasticGramps]

paper money gives value to gold

Hilariously pitiful statement.

 

[SpasticGramps]

Are Investors Running Out of Safe Havens to Put Money? CNBC

Amid all the challenges facing the markets — Greece, Facebook, JPMorgan — investors face an even larger potential problem: They soon could be running out of traditional safe havens for their money.

Much has been made recently of how gold no longer offers its traditional buffer against financial turmoil, with the yellow metal in a sharp pullback since early March.

But some strategists are beginning to worry that other places where investors are stowing their money — high-grade bonds, Treasurys and defensive stocks in particular — also could be losing their protective shields.

"The problem is we're seeing safe-haven flows with shrinking instruments into which you can run," says Kim Rupert, managing director of global fixed income analysis at Action Economics in San Francisco. "Once the run for the exits gets started it's going to be an absolute stampede."

Like I said before. Investors in this market remind me of a bunch of people standing on a melting glacier. The more it melts the more people run towards the center which is the perceived safe. Eventually though the center melts, which is happening now, and everyone drowns together.

 

[FlowerFarmer]

how does gold become more valuable when the currency unit becomes inflated?

if by 'valuable' you mean it will take more currency units to buy gold, it is simply because the unit is inflated, not because gold has became more valuable...

and in circles we go...

It doesn't... Its a hedge. No profits per se.. but a hedge against a loss of purchasing power that those experience saving in paper.

Flower, so you think if you invest in gold now, because currencies are becoming inflated, is a good way to 'park' your wealth; how then are you going to convert this gold back into the same value before inflation?

you can't.

Sure you can. You convert to inflated dollars and quickly purchased cheap properties. The majority of people welcome inflated cash with open arms..and many sell near the bottom of their chosen asset class (ie: real estate). Foolishly..they want into the asset class that is going parabolic (PMs in this case) instead of buying up assets that are bottoming.

how do you 'park' your wealth in commerical real estate in a weak economy? how would you then have this real-estate produce income when no one would have the money to invest in your real estate?

You buy and hold. Its not about income at said point. Its about holding undervalued assets that will rise in value in the future.

paper money gives value to gold, if paper money becomes inflated, so does the price of gold, but the aquisition power will still be the same, or even less.

^ no words

invest in art instead of gold...

etc... etc... etc...

So someone's perceived value of art is a safer play then saving in real money? You mean.. valued at only what someone is going to pay for it? Sound familiar to your argument at all? Art can be held for gains.. but you damn better know what your doing.

it is tiring beating on this old dead-horse..

It sure is.. I think I need some kool aide.


Your right however that gold doesn't necessarily pay dividends. Its not about income production.. its about saving and hedging inflation. Obviously one would want to diversify a bit... gold is for saving.. Passive income properties and other small business risk oriented avenues are for income. I'm not trying to advocate putting one's money to work...but there is money you risk and there is money you save. In today's environment they've created a situation where people MUST risk in order to just break even. Gold is the door around this.

We shouldn't have to risk our savings to break even. Getting even 1% in a bank account when say there is 10% inflation means we are being robbed of 9%. (yea yea.. we all know inflation is only 2%.. until you actually compare prices and try to purchase things).