Straintalk and comparative anatomy

[Mustafunk]

Very interesting thread indeed!! I always noticed all the small differences between the seeds! I remember some day, I had all the seeds sprouted but I had lost the cards with the names, so I had to find out who was who just by looking at the seeds!! and to be honest, it was much more easier than what I expected!! LOL

But what about the leaves? Observing the leaves has been a method of trees and vegetables classification for ages, Im sure that with a detailed study and observation, there could be some notable differences between the various strains.

Lets look at this example, the "quercus" family, the differences between oak leaves:

Amazing right? Now Im quite sure that we can do something similar with the cannabis landraces. Im going to post some pictures i've found, but I think we can improve this observations in detail.


Afgan

Colombian

Nepal

Oaxacan

Thailand

Durban

Last but not least, a tiny picture of some tiny young leaves of my plants... the amazing contrast between an uzbequistan landrace and a Thailandese Ko Chang one too:

Beautiful, isnt it?

 

[Thule]

Thanks for the input guys, very appreciated!

I'm planting some thais that grow leaves very much like that afghani pictured. There's a big puzzle there, where did the wideleaves come from? What they all have incommon is a dry climate.

 

[Purppura]

Hi everyone and specially Thule!

New user pops along to this cool thread!
I got these interesting seeds and now I am too curious that what is behind these traits. These are second generation seeds grown from the ones given by streetplayer indians propably from Peruvian.
Brand new seeds are a little bigger and lighter brown than the originals that I got first.
Seeds are small ass you can see in the pic, so are plants. Some got purple stems and little wider leaves than one in a pictuer. Those phenos got very dark and tiny seeds.
So please have a look:



Seeds are just piked from 9 weeks old plant given no dark period att all.
These sativas do autofower! I guess this might be a landrace.
Odour is nice and mild. There in not so much resin so I hope that these are not ditchweed!!

The lady



Can anyone tell what this is? Why would autoflower exist near equator?

 

[Thule]

Tervehdys purppura and welcome to icmag!

Wonderful, you got pics of the Peruvian! Did you bring these seeds back yourself? Does the pot make you energetic or tired?

I grew these seeds a year ago, but only ended up with one male, seeded everything with it, and lost everything to the police (fuck you!)

The best explanation I could come up with is that they've got some spanish hemp genes in them, that and a short growing season high up the Andes could in theory give rise to autoflowering.

Now looking at the picture and after discussions at hamppuforum I'm not so sure about the hemp theory, red stems and that leaf look don't add up.

I'll stick with the high altitude origin though, I can' think of any other reason for autoflowering. The tiny seeds could imply it's a wild variety, but not necessarily. Oaxacan gold might be derived from a similar stock.. Contemporary science says cannabis was brought to the Americas 500 years ago, but maybe they're wrong..

I'd like some Peruvians to tell us if there are infact wild plants on the Andean slopes.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

I thought this double serration was indicative of a certain lineage... not sure though.

Any input?

 

[charlie garcia]

Hemp failed in southamerica historically, they used local plants for their cabuyas (ropes). Some old spanish books with testimonies tell even in second generation the hemp was of very poor quality and unable to survive in many areas. Chile used to grow some hemp but dont think Peru does. There is much hybridation there. And today is all over the country I think.
Internet and globalization
best

 

[Mustafunk]

I thought this double serration was indicative of a certain lineage... not sure though.

I have seen that in some hybrids too, I was wondering exatly the same!! Im sure it does... but the answer looks tricky!

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

Great thread Thule. I love this quote; "I think you can learn alot just by looking at the plants and letting your mind fly." I might just have to borrow that for my quote!

 

[IWanaGetHiSoHi]

I posted this in another thread recently ... It looks to be Afghani (it is) and has double serrations ... its sister is on the left behind it (single serrations) and their brother (single serrations) is in a secure spot flowering alone.

 

[Purppura]

Tervehdys purppura and welcome to icmag!

Wonderful, you got pics of the Peruvian! Did you bring these seeds back yourself? Does the pot make you energetic or tired?

I grew these seeds a year ago, but only ended up with one male, seeded everything with it, and lost everything to the police (fuck you!)

The best explanation I could come up with is that they've got some spanish hemp genes in them, that and a short growing season high up the Andes could in theory give rise to autoflowering.

Now looking at the picture and after discussions at hamppuforum I'm not so sure about the hemp theory, red stems and that leaf look don't add up.

I'll stick with the high altitude origin though, I can' think of any other reason for autoflowering. The tiny seeds could imply it's a wild variety, but not necessarily. Oaxacan gold might be derived from a similar stock.. Contemporary science says cannabis was brought to the Americas 500 years ago, but maybe they're wrong..

I'd like some Peruvians to tell us if there are infact wild plants on the Andean slopes.

Thanks

These i got from mate who had got em from another mate who had got em from Peruvian streetmusicians. So who can properly tell that are they picked from Peru or somewhere easteurope roadside?

Havent smoked these yet, i just managed to maintain the population by this girl. Male turned to hermaphrodite soon after transporting to seedmaking place (in 1/2h closed darkbox) and repotting in bigger pot. I let it also pollinate two other fast and resinous AF girls.

Hope someone can tell that is there realy AF plants in Peru.
In everycase I will be stuffing this shit to my bong after one month and then can tell that is it dichweed or ganja.

 

[Thule]

Yes Charlie, It's true that hemp production never kicked off in Peru, but the first thing the spanish did was plant hemp seeds, if any of that hemp managed to go feral that would be by far the oldest contributor of genes in the area. 500 years is a long time to adapt although it seems traits like autoflowering can develop quite rapidly in some cases.

Mr. Greengenes, feel free to use my words, it was just stoned ponder but straight from the heart

Purppura, I hear the strain puts out hermies very frequently, it may be connected with the autoflower trait, they might be very sensitive to stress, and a long day condition might be stressfull to a equatorial strain. What ever the cause, it's very interesting.

ruderalis for comparison

Notice the protruding base of the seed, typical of wild forms.

 

[Purppura]

Im so waitin to taste this shit. Seeds looks ripen fastly, but there isn´t the base like in picture. This is the first plant of these seeds that has kept its sex.
A Cross between this and fast & strong AF indica will be interesting to grow on next season.

I will take more pics when plant is looking more mature.

 

[professordank]

Does anybody have any examples of hybrid vigor in the crossing of two landraces? Maybe double indicas or sativas, or indica/sativa mixes?

 

[Mr.Jones]

Does anybody have any examples of hybrid vigor in the crossing of two landraces? Maybe double indicas or sativas, or indica/sativa mixes?

ever wondered where the first hybrids were from?
probably 2 landraces! i guess for hybrid vigor there just has to be some genetic difference

 

[professordank]

ever wondered where the first hybrids were from?
probably 2 landraces! i guess for hybrid vigor there just has to be some genetic difference

I understand that the the first hybrids would be from landraces...that wasn't the question. The question was: out of all the growers with landrace genetics here, has anyone noticed any unusually high performance out of landrace crosses?

 

[Mr.Jones]

I understand that the the first hybrids would be from landraces...that wasn't the question. The question was: out of all the growers with landrace genetics here, has anyone noticed any unusually high performance out of landrace crosses?

landrace crosses, especially sativa indica crosses, tend to be very potent i guess. take a look at the originals: white widow and northern lights. those two are still in my opinion one of the best plants that are around even after nearly 20 years ...
its always the thai/afghani/south american/hindu kush mix what seems to work pretty good.

i always wanted to cross durban poison and hindu kush for some crazy hybrid with very short flowering times and high yields.

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

We have an F1 hybrid cut of Durban Poison (afropips) and an unknown strain from Germany that shows extreme hybrid vigor. It vegges fast, yields a LOT has aggressive roots, yet is compact in growth habit. It flowers shorter than long season sats, but is easier to keep healthy well into late flowering than others. It is a top favorite of many who've smoked and/or grown it.

 

[Rusty420]

i have a hard on for hybrids of pure lines like the one of which you speak MrGG...We got some afropip durban and swazi, and some RSC sats in the seed stash for some heady adventures down the line.....this subject in particular has interested me for a while, based on my findings i presume that the oaxacan and colombian gold are of the same stock, im not sure as to whether the latitude/elevation from sea level etc would influece the genotype enough to cause the difference between the two...maybe the oaxacan crops were interbred with indian indica down the line, making it more greasy and squatter than the lumbo-gold? also suspect that the strains went accross Africa from east to west, the climate and soil seperating those lines from what they became in south america....where did it start?? the hand of shiva in old testament india??...dont say china...

forgive my rabble rabble...

Edit: IBL lines typcaly lack the modern traits the majority of people seek, if you cross two wanky IBLs together, the offspring should be better just from the vigour...IBLs/homogenous lines normaly are small yielders, but with vigour, they are....for instance, deep chunk, from seed produces little side branching, like Flo/F13...but, F13 x DC would make large and fast growing plants with massive leaves and side branches from the get go...

 

[Thule]

If you outcross a population that hasn't gotten any foreign geneflow in decades, the offspring usually grows like wildfire. The more distant the relation, the more vigour. (in cannabis)

Hell I even tried crossing japanese hops and cannabis but it didn't work this time around. I'll give it another go with better circumstances.

Before going to South America I'd like to discuss one of my favourite topics, African ganja.

The prevailing idea is that African strains originate in India and were brought by "arab traders" some 700 years ago. There were however numerous cannabis growing nationalities criss crossing the Indian Ocean long before the arabs. Mriko posted an interesting article about traces of cannabis in Madagascar, 4000 years ago! That's the same date as for northern Europe and India. In the case of the latter it probably has something to do with the spread of Indo Europeans from Central Asia but I doubt they would have sailed to Africa after reaching India..

With such a blurry picture of the past where should we look at?

Let's look at Malawi Gold first:

And then Indian Ganja from Kerala:

Quite different, aren't they?

 

[Thule]

Ok, where was I? Africa? I wish

The thing about Malawi Gold is that it's not your typical lanky spindly sativa at all. Atleast not the phenotypes captured in the Afropips line. The stems are thick and woody, buds get resinous early on and have big calyxes. Totally the opposite in growth pattern to a Indian Haze I grew for example. The seeds are also quite big, ovoid in shape and light brown in color.

Tracing the original homeland of any strain can be tricky because populations have mixed so much during the centuries. Some populations might have stayed relatively unchanged for long times though, and I think the chances for finding such a strain in the jungles of Africa is higher than in Central Asia, along the ancient silk route for example.

The Malawi sure has unique leaves, the kind of which I haven't seen in Asia. The fingers are arranged in a perfect circle, very spiderlike, looks like it could jump on your face like an Alien I've seen plants with this trademark in some Himalayan strains, As well as Yunnanese plants. Deep Chunk often does that if vegged far enough.

Another hint could be the purported THCV content. I've never heard of anyone actually testing his or her malawi gold for THCV, but literature often refers to the THCV content of southern African strains. THCV is absent in south India but is found in plants further north in Pakistan, Afghanistan and very likely also in northern India close to Pakistan. Another hotspot is in Thailand and I think I remember SamS saying that Yunnanese plants also contain THCV plants among other things, but I have to check that out.

So that pretty much narrows it down to South East Asia and Hindu Kush. It's still a huge area but that also means huge amounts of possible strains to smoke out for further research