Something wicked this way comes

[delta9nxs]

My questions are, how long do you veg, and have you run into any issues with clogging tailpieces using the 3" pvc/perlite setup with 7 gal tuff tubs. i plan on vegging for six weeks in full sun greenhouse, but i dont want to run into issues with roots clogging the system.

i would like to veg long enough to get to the 3lb+ range.

also is the pulse still a quart every 90 min, do you adjust the feed throughout the cycle or just set and forget? For your plumbing are you using a loop field with a big pump or individual pumps at each site?

I have three greenhouses that im adding to do this experiment, the layout is for 108 total plant sites in flower in two 130x20 greenhouses. the other greenhouse is 20x75 for veg. The layout is a plant in every 6x6 area with walkways and work space in between.

For these plants to fill up a 6x6 area i would imagine a longer veg than 6 weeks? right?


This is after two days of grading and learning how to use a skiploader, Thanks for the help!
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=72002&pictureid=1751845&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

since going to the grating and the xlp perlite only in the tailpieces we have had no clogging incidents.

you may want to consider larger containers for outdoors. you really need to talk to HL45. he has the most experience outside.

we are still going through strains as fast as we can looking for winners but it seems the average veg time indoors is around 5 weeks.

i am not producing finished flower and all my material is going for extraction so it's very hard to compare yields but i seem to be getting 2.5 to 3.5 lbs very dry material per plant. this is 10-12% moisture range, no stem, no fans.

vegging outside in full sun you could end up with 10-12 ft diameter plants. the 6' spacing seems way too tight.

i would set up the plumbing like you see here with a pump at each plant. you will have to play with duration and interval a little to get it right.

 

[Speed of green]

These are light dep greenhouses, not full season, so veg times should be 5-7 weeks max.

do you think its possible to get a 6'x6' plant with a 5 week veg?

I will go with the pump at each plant site. do you have extension cords daisy chained together?

not sure if you want to include this but whats the going rate for untrimmed indoor flower units?

Thanks for the info!

 

[delta9nxs]

Do you just have a bolt/washer threaded into the ends of the tubes in your scrog rack? Curious how you put them together as I really like the simplicity of the design.

i think you are the first one to actually ask how they are made!

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Crown-B...lloy-Short-Lag-Shield-15-Pack-10401/202518541

these are designed to anchor shit in concrete using 3/8" lag screws however they fit tight into 1/2" electrical conduit and using a 1/4" x 3 1/2" lag screw you can expand it so that it won't come out.

i use a 1/4" fender washer between the lag screw and the wood.

i used 2 - 2x4" x 8' and 2 - 2x3" x 8' sawn in half for each frame.

you will need 4 - 1/2" x 10' electrical conduit per frame. i cut mine into 4' lengths. this gave me 4.5' x 4.5' scrog nets.

each wood support is held together with 3 - 2 1/2" drywall screws.

i'm using the 3.5" mesh 5 x 30' hydrofarm netting.

i looked at using all conduit with conduit fittings and all pvc with pvc furniture fittings and it came out to about $80 either way. this method is about 35 per frame. i needed 29 so it represents a considerable difference.

be aware that these are not structurally sound in any way. you cannot stand on them. they are intended only to temporarily support a plant.

 

[delta9nxs]

These are light dep greenhouses, not full season, so veg times should be 5-7 weeks max.

do you think its possible to get a 6'x6' plant with a 5 week veg?

I will go with the pump at each plant site. do you have extension cords daisy chained together?

not sure if you want to include this but whats the going rate for untrimmed indoor flower units?

Thanks for the info!

growing tree style untopped with most strains they will be 7-8' plants at the end of stretch with a 5 week veg.

my plants are 4' in diameter before stretch and that is topped and severely trained into a bush by comparison.

the extension cords are just hooked together. they are the grounded three conductor ones from wally's. if you look at my pump buckets you can see that the pump cords are just barely out of the pump buckets. when you plug the cords in this keeps them off the floor or ground.

i don't know about untrimmed indoor flower units as that is not how i divest my final product.

 

[~star~crash~]

pic update please??? it's been a week

 

[Speed of green]

sorry my last post was vague. the dimensions: the ceiling height is 15' each plant will have a 6' 7" diameter circle to grow into.

I was thinking the plants would grow to 5' diameter, that would give me enough wiggle room to get in and work.

 

[delta9nxs]

sorry my last post was vague. the dimensions: the ceiling height is 15' each plant will have a 6' 7" diameter circle to grow into.

I was thinking the plants would grow to 5' diameter, that would give me enough wiggle room to get in and work.

they will be a lot bigger than that if vegged 5 weeks in full sun. in a light dep greenhouse with controlled exposure they will be 7-8' after stretch using hybrid strains that yield well.

i'm vegging mine approx 5 weeks and some of them are overgrowing the screens. and that's with early topping and a lot of training and thinning.

 

[Mr Blah]

....

here are 5 of the 9 drums that feed the system. this is where the nutrients are added. currently mixed at 1050 ppm or ec 2.1 and 6.1 ph using no adjusters.

While feeding your control buckets, do you shut the valves until the RO water fills all 9 drums to before you make a new batch?

I am having to add a couple more 44 gal brutes (due to 44 gallons vanishing every 2 days with 4 plants) to the one I have now. But the RO system holding tank is only 2-44gal brutes.

Should I mix what I have on hand (88gals of RO) and mix nutes in all three 44gal brutes (which are all connected)?

Also should I mix the 88gals like I am making 132gals? or mix 88gals first than wait for the extra 44gals than mix more?

It takes about 10-12hrs to make 88gals of RO in the holding tanks.

 

[delta9nxs]

While feeding your control buckets, do you shut the valves until the RO water fills all 9 drums to before you make a new batch?

I am having to add a couple more 44 gal brutes (due to 44 gallons vanishing every 2 days with 4 plants) to the one I have now. But the RO system holding tank is only 2-44gal brutes.

Should I mix what I have on hand (88gals of RO) and mix nutes in all three 44gal brutes (which are all connected)?

Also should I mix the 88gals like I am making 132gals? or mix 88gals first than wait for the extra 44gals than mix more?

It takes about 10-12hrs to make 88gals of RO in the holding tanks.

currently, i'm not using ro water. but when i did i would have two sets of containers of equal volume.

that way you can accumulate ro water in one set of containers while feeding from the other set.

 

[Snook]

currently, i'm not using ro water. but when i did i would have two sets of containers of equal volume.

that way you can accumulate ro water in one set of containers while feeding from the other set.

I must have missed those posts bother. You are using tap water now? Is that what is now making the 850ppms you have referenced recently?? 600ppms Jacks + C and the tap water is 250PPMS? still mixing at 1:.67??

 

[Mr Blah]

currently, i'm not using ro water. but when i did i would have two sets of containers of equal volume.

that way you can accumulate ro water in one set of containers while feeding from the other set.

Thanks D. But unfortunately I do not have the luxury of holding 132, only 88.
I think the best way for me is to mix 88gals of nutes and RO water in all three connected brutes and the next day mix roughly 44 more gal of RO and nutes to make up the difference.

The problem is your system is to dam good...
Many thanks

 

[Heaths mate]

Greetings to everybody

I am sorry, I'm not trying to hijack your thread I just want to ask a couple questions if that is okay?
I have been scrolling through these forums for years now whilst gaining first hand experience trying to suck up as much knowledge as possible. I have never posted though cause there seems to be a lot of confusion, arguments and a little hostility on most of these forums, but have always been a keen reader cause of people
like yourself making reading these forums so enjoyable and inspiring.
The first time I opened the Passive plant killer thread I had just finished a RDWC run and
remember thinking..."Do these guys actually believe a WICK system could be this effective???" I've never been one to dismiss anything until I understand it fully so after researching the dynamics of the system and actually starting to understand where you were going with it I have to say, you my friend, are an innovative genius! I had to eat my words whilst looking at those huge trees and the Scrogs you have done, what an artist.

Needless to say, eventually I got root rot in the RDWC system after a few good runs. I then decided to adapt a coco DTW system for simplicity and the fact that I wanted to be spending less time losing my eyesight to HID bulbs. Although I am happy-ish with the results, I just can't help but feel I could do so much more. So here I go trying to set up my first PPK. I understand most of what needs to be done but I'm a little confused as to how to go about doing it... Firstly, I'm in the UK and it seems impossible to buy a tailpiece anywhere around here so I am planning on building the tailpieces with some PVC and mounting a flange. I haven't fully worked out how it will work exactly but I have a decent idea of how to go about it.
My second issue is the plumbing. I kind of understand how your flowering room is set up but my pots won't be in lines. For the past few years I have always ran 4 plant sites with 5 vertical bulbs flip flopping. Im sure a man of your calibar understands the placement of bulbs and plants already, I have seen you mention the checkerboard pattern before in another thread. I was initially going to use 1 control with a big pump for feeds and the plants in single pots. After seeing you are using 2 pots per site I am wondering how I can adapt this to the checkerboard pattern I am doing. Sorry if I'm not making any sense, I don't have a fraction of the knowledge or experience most of you gentleman have, I'm just looking to learn a little.

I also looked into Jacks as I've heard you talk about it in abundance. I would love to try some out but can't seem to find it anywhere in the UK. I emailed Jacks hydroponics to no avail. If I do ever manage to get hold of the stuff, am I ok to use it with bene compost teas?

I will be using coco/perlite in the PPK and 100% perlite in the wicks like you suggest. I'm currently trying to find some chunky perlite as everything you find in the UK is the finer stuff.

I understand if you don't have the time to answer my questions but I know you've not been in best health and I very much hope you are well. If you ever fancy a trip to the UK, get in touch with me, a man like yourself is always welcome in my home.

Heisenburg

 

[delta9nxs]

I must have missed those posts bother. You are using tap water now? Is that what is now making the 850ppms you have referenced recently?? 600ppms Jacks + C and the tap water is 250PPMS? still mixing at 1:.67??

i know i'm confusing sometimes as i'm speaking about experiences at different locations.

all of the sites in TN and some of the sites i have worked on here have required ro water. my facility here has really nice 80 ppm tap water. i have never had it analyzed because the plants love it. must be mostly calcium and magnesium.

since starting this thread i have done a lot of experimenting with nutrient strength and composition.

when completely finished with construction here i will have 49 plants in all stages of life on one large system.

as we have ramped up production the plant mass has not been stable. so it has required a lot of adjusting or steering to keep the solution right.

when fully loaded though the mass should be relatively stable. then i should be able to find the sweet spot for input.

As far as jack's and calcinit goes I think I got do some splainin' to do!

Remember when, back in the day, all the way back to 2010 when I first began using the jrpeters combo?

The instructions on their bag call for, as a starting point, per 1000 gals of volume, 130 weight oz's of jack's 5-12-26 and 86 oz's of calcium nitrate.

This produces the 1/.66 ratio. By weight.

At the time somewhere in their literature they recommended using ½ tsp of each part per gal for “small batches”. By volume.

Well I checked that with a meter while mixing in ro water and got 1/.67 using their calcinit.

Somewhere back then I switched to yara liva brand calcinit. I never checked it just began using it at the same ratio of volume as the jack's product.

Guess what? It is not the same weight per volume as the jack's calcinit. So since the change to yara I have been giving the plants a slightly higher ratio of nitrogen and calcium than I would have been using the jack's calcinit.

So, right now, and this will probably change, per 50 gals, i'm using 6 level tablespoons jack's hydro, 1 level spoon epsom salts, and 6 level spoons yara liva calcinit. Also using 10 ml 85% phosphoric acid per drum for ph down.

With my 80 ppm tap water this is coming out to around 850 ppm. But the system, at this load, is running fairly stable at 920-940 ppm. Ph input is 5.8 approx but runs in the recirculating part at about 6.2 most of the time.

 

[delta9nxs]

Greetings to everybody

I am sorry, I'm not trying to hijack your thread I just want to ask a couple questions if that is okay?
I have been scrolling through these forums for years now whilst gaining first hand experience trying to suck up as much knowledge as possible. I have never posted though cause there seems to be a lot of confusion, arguments and a little hostility on most of these forums, but have always been a keen reader cause of people
like yourself making reading these forums so enjoyable and inspiring.
The first time I opened the Passive plant killer thread I had just finished a RDWC run and
remember thinking..."Do these guys actually believe a WICK system could be this effective???" I've never been one to dismiss anything until I understand it fully so after researching the dynamics of the system and actually starting to understand where you were going with it I have to say, you my friend, are an innovative genius! I had to eat my words whilst looking at those huge trees and the Scrogs you have done, what an artist.

Needless to say, eventually I got root rot in the RDWC system after a few good runs. I then decided to adapt a coco DTW system for simplicity and the fact that I wanted to be spending less time losing my eyesight to HID bulbs. Although I am happy-ish with the results, I just can't help but feel I could do so much more. So here I go trying to set up my first PPK. I understand most of what needs to be done but I'm a little confused as to how to go about doing it... Firstly, I'm in the UK and it seems impossible to buy a tailpiece anywhere around here so I am planning on building the tailpieces with some PVC and mounting a flange. I haven't fully worked out how it will work exactly but I have a decent idea of how to go about it.
My second issue is the plumbing. I kind of understand how your flowering room is set up but my pots won't be in lines. For the past few years I have always ran 4 plant sites with 5 vertical bulbs flip flopping. Im sure a man of your calibar understands the placement of bulbs and plants already, I have seen you mention the checkerboard pattern before in another thread. I was initially going to use 1 control with a big pump for feeds and the plants in single pots. After seeing you are using 2 pots per site I am wondering how I can adapt this to the checkerboard pattern I am doing. Sorry if I'm not making any sense, I don't have a fraction of the knowledge or experience most of you gentleman have, I'm just looking to learn a little.

I also looked into Jacks as I've heard you talk about it in abundance. I would love to try some out but can't seem to find it anywhere in the UK. I emailed Jacks hydroponics to no avail. If I do ever manage to get hold of the stuff, am I ok to use it with bene compost teas?

I will be using coco/perlite in the PPK and 100% perlite in the wicks like you suggest. I'm currently trying to find some chunky perlite as everything you find in the UK is the finer stuff.

I understand if you don't have the time to answer my questions but I know you've not been in best health and I very much hope you are well. If you ever fancy a trip to the UK, get in touch with me, a man like yourself is always welcome in my home.

Heisenburg

welcome and thank you! heath was the hydro moderator at hg420 years ago when i was a member. nice guy! always very fair!

the 4 plant 5 light set up is very efficient if you are only running 4 plants.

your plumbing arrangement should be different than you see here. with 4 plants a single reservoir with both the pump and the float valve in it would be the easiest way to go.

a pump of about 750-950 gph capability should have a 3/4" threaded inlet and outlet.

build a pvc manifold with valves to equalize flow rates or make all feed lines equal length. either method will equalize delivery.

i'll see if i can come up with a diagram or something.

in the eu haifa chemicals is the big supplier of quality dry nutrients and they have formulas almost identical to jack's.

don't put the fine perlite in the tailpiece, it will clog up fast!

 

[Heaths mate]

welcome and thank you! heath was the hydro moderator at hg420 years ago when i was a member. nice guy! always very fair!

the 4 plant 5 light set up is very efficient if you are only running 4 plants.

your plumbing arrangement should be different than you see here. with 4 plants a single reservoir with both the pump and the float valve in it would be the easiest way to go.

a pump of about 750-950 gph capability should have a 3/4" threaded inlet and outlet.

build a pvc manifold with valves to equalize flow rates or make all feed lines equal length. either method will equalize delivery.

i'll see if i can come up with a diagram or something.

in the eu haifa chemicals is the big supplier of quality dry nutrients and they have formulas almost identical to jack's.

don't put the fine perlite in the tailpiece, it will clog up fast!

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my questions, it is very much appreciated.

I never managed to chat much to Heath because by the time I started studying plants he was more or less inactive, but you can tell by his threads he was a genuine, straight forward individual, and an inspiration as a grower like yourself. It's a shame all the trolls that would hammer his threads eventually annoyed him enough for him to stop bothering.

I only ever intend on running 4 plants because I only grow for personal consumption. I don't need to grow no more than that but I love striving for efficiency. I would love to see 100oz of the 4 plants and not have to worry about growing for another year. Maybe instead spend the time trying to find a new strain.

I have had a few ideas on the plumbing. I thought of 3 ways I could go about it.
- Undercurrent style where the nutes are constantly being recirc to help keep PPM and PH at balance. Only problem is I thought maybe there is potential for uneven air gap in each site.
- Having the control in the middle and each plant in a diamond shape around. 4500lph pump in control which irrigates buckets then a single return from each bucket to the control in the centre.
0
0 -C -0
0
- Connecting all buckets undercurrent style without the returning pump. So each bucket is connected in a series.

I've not heard of Haifa chemicals but will most certainly look into them... Can I just ask why the dry feeds seem to work best? And would you have any idea what sort of product I'm looking for from Haifa?

Yeah I'm searching everywhere for the chunky stuff as we speak. Should be able to get my hands on some soon enough hopefully.

Thank you very much for your response. Sorry for my diagram and babbling on.

Heisenburg

 

[Heaths mate]

Ok the diagram really didn't work out but I cant upload pictures yet cause I am not special enough

 

[Snook]

I'm not sure what pics yer lookin for but here's a very high level drawing of PPK you'd need a timer on the pump for top feeding schedule. The rest... just ebb and flows..

 

[delta9nxs]

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my questions, it is very much appreciated.

I never managed to chat much to Heath because by the time I started studying plants he was more or less inactive, but you can tell by his threads he was a genuine, straight forward individual, and an inspiration as a grower like yourself. It's a shame all the trolls that would hammer his threads eventually annoyed him enough for him to stop bothering.

I only ever intend on running 4 plants because I only grow for personal consumption. I don't need to grow no more than that but I love striving for efficiency. I would love to see 100oz of the 4 plants and not have to worry about growing for another year. Maybe instead spend the time trying to find a new strain.

I have had a few ideas on the plumbing. I thought of 3 ways I could go about it.
- Undercurrent style where the nutes are constantly being recirc to help keep PPM and PH at balance. Only problem is I thought maybe there is potential for uneven air gap in each site.
- Having the control in the middle and each plant in a diamond shape around. 4500lph pump in control which irrigates buckets then a single return from each bucket to the control in the centre.
0
0 -C -0
0
- Connecting all buckets undercurrent style without the returning pump. So each bucket is connected in a series.

I've not heard of Haifa chemicals but will most certainly look into them... Can I just ask why the dry feeds seem to work best? And would you have any idea what sort of product I'm looking for from Haifa?

Yeah I'm searching everywhere for the chunky stuff as we speak. Should be able to get my hands on some soon enough hopefully.

Thank you very much for your response. Sorry for my diagram and babbling on.

Heisenburg

i like the res in the center with 4 plants in a diamond layout. it's not a good idea to daisy chain plant containers as they will all read differently.

how big of a plant container do you intend to use?

 

[delta9nxs]

hey gman! here's some eye candy for you!

1. stardawg x c99 #7 (ivanka) on left and #6 (myrtle) on right. 33 and 31 days respectively.

2, 3, 4. ivanka

5, 6, 7. myrtle

i thought i had a good close up bud shot of myrtle but i can't seem to find it.

 

[delta9nxs]

1. lodi dodi, looks like an angry lynch mob!

2. wreckage at 49 days

3. a shot of the new 9 plant room. here i went ahead and air cooled the lights. this cut back on ac compressor run time and therefore their influence on moisture removal, allowing the dehumidifiers to run in a tighter band.

4. then on to the main veg room. some cloning and seed popping going on.

5. el chapo

6. iranian x c99

7. stardawg x c99 #6

8. another

9.lodi dodi

10. can't remember, again.