Some people get it....

[Donald Mallard]

I think the issue here is what is "real" Thai stick. Creeperpark's story might be true, and for him the only real Thai stick is how he remembers it.
But it's also true that in 1977, my brother, who was stationed in Thailand, brought back Thai sticks from Thailand, they had no opium in them. Seems like for Creeperpark, that's not "real" Thai stick. But that was Thai weed, and it was on a stick, so to me and my crew it was Thai stick.

yep that was thai stick ,
the other , well if it even existed , it was something else altogether and unrelated to thai stick,
i really think someone has their wires crossed on that one ,
opium dealing monks is another thing too ,
they dont indulge in alcohol , or sex , but yea they deal drugs ,, lol ...

 

[Dime]

I could be wrong but a real hardcore one takes a vow of silence and are not allowed to use money since it relates to sensual pleasure.

 

[Jellyfish]

Yeah, but what's a real hardcore monk? You only need one or two not real hardcore monks to be able to do business. Maybe it was the peons working for the monks, doing the actual work, were selling it out the back door. I HAVE heard the story of opium infused Thai stick more than once over the years, so it's not out of left field at all. I imagine a lot of us have.

 

[moose eater]

No stories of monks involved in the Thai stick we smoked on Kodiak.

The opiated stick was much larger and wrapped in the construction paper-like appearance as described..

The shorter sticks came in baggies just like any other weed but for the sticks. and they weren't the same quality as sticks had been before that, either.

As born out in the video Hammer linked to in a limited way, Kodiak, which is much further from the mainland in Alaska than Seward (which is a port -on- the mainland), with Kodiak being a good distance out into the Gulf of Alaska, and had its own Coast Guard Base, complete with a C-130 strip, was a stopping-off point for both commercial and private vessels coming across the Pacific or up from the Lower-48/PNW Coast... and saw a LOT of premium dope come into port when the place was quite corrupt and governed informally by a group of 7 folks. That was, up until the Feds investigated local corruption there, about a year or so after I'd left, after a local cop involved in shenanigans (Sandy was his name), got shot in the gut out at the hatchery one night.

 

[Donald Mallard]

No stories of monks involved in the Thai stick we smoked on Kodiak.

The opiated stick was much larger and wrapped in the construction paper-like appearance as described..

The shorter sticks came in baggies just like any other weed but for the sticks. and they weren't the same quality as sticks had been before that, either.

As born out in the video Hammer linked to in a limited way, Kodiak, which is much further from the mainland in Alaska than Seward (which is a port -on- the mainland), with Kodiak being a good distance out into the Gulf of Alaska, and had its own Coast Guard Base, complete with a C-130 strip, was a stopping-off point for both commercial and private vessels coming across the Pacific or up from the Lower-48/PNW Coast... and saw a LOT of premium dope come into port when the place was quite corrupt and governed informally by a group of 7 folks. That was, up until the Feds investigated local corruption there, about a year or so after I'd left, after a local cop involved in shenanigans (Sandy was his name), got shot in the gut out at the hatchery one night.

doesnt even sound like thai sticks those opiated ones ,
and as i mentioned it wasnt commercially viable , so it wasnt from thailand ,
thai sticks were uniform , those folks are like a culture with ocd ,, everything was the same length , size , shape etc ,,
i dunno if you have ever been to a thai market , but presentation is everything ...
View media item 17707155

 

[moose eater]

doesnt even sound like thai sticks those opiated ones ,
and as i mentioned it wasnt commercially viable , so it wasnt from thailand ,
thai sticks were uniform , those folks are like a culture with ocd ,, everything was the same length , size , shape etc ,,
i dunno if you have ever been to a thai market , but presentation is everything ...
View media item 17707155

The Thai sticks in the baggies were uniform and same length, smaller diameter, and again, lesser quality than Thai sticks we'd had before.

The opiated Thai stick (and the engineer who had the one nice sample I viewed had no reason to lie about his procuring of it) was perhaps 50-75% longer, larger diameter, and had the resinous blackish oil substance to it, leaving a slight residue on a wrapping paper that was like construction paper crossed with thicker parchment paper. it didn't stick to the paper badly, but definitely left a bit of residue.

I was getting the uniform sticks from a cabbie I was close with and dealing them out of the harbor. They were good, but not incredibly good.

The opiated stick the engineer had was incredibly good. No comparison to the smaller more uniform sticks.

My first run-in with a member of the 'informal governing body' had to do with fronting an ounce of the smaller uniform sticks to a freelance hooker named Dani, from Ketchikan, who had leukemia, and she didn't reappear in a timely manner.

I went asking around the B&B Bar as to whether anyone had seen her, and at some point, a fairly large Hawaiian fellow (whose moniker I won't print here, though I remember it well) put a firm grip on my shoulder (I was going on 20 y.o. at that time) and he said in firm but quiet tone, "You're asking all the wrong questions in all the wrong places."

I assumed she'd run afoul of the only recognized local whore house, which the owner of was on that informal 'governing body', and they'd done away with her.

But she appeared a day or 3 later, and I was about half-right. She'd been at the Beachcomber Bar, yet another raucous joint at that time, but one more frequented by Coasties than the local crab fishermen, soliciting business relative to her trade, when officers of the local Kodiak PD had approached her and made it clear there was only one house of ill repute on the Island and that (quoting her report to me back then) "she could either be ON the next boat (ferry) or under it."

I got paid for my 'missing' Thai sticks. Dani survived, as far as I know.

 

[Donald Mallard]

so how many of these opiated sticks did you see ??
maybe they were all fake thai sticks ??
those were around ,
were they green , red ,, brown , orange ??

at least u mention a tar like substance on them i guess ,
but u can be pretty sure they were not from thailand and not a thai stick ,
if you listen to reports from people there at the time , people smuggling them ,
folks with first hand experience , they all say the same thing ,
no such thing as opiated thai sticks ,
and as far as i can see , only second and third hand stories say its true ,
like some legend handed down , hahaha ,
the other thing in common with those folks and those stories ,
none spent any time in thailand ....

I think ill make this the last post on this ,
if u want to believe these stories , go ahead ,
its amazing folks loyalties to stories they were told over anything more logical and using first hand experiences from folks who were there , people just love tall tales it seems , crazy , but true ...

 

[moose eater]

so how many of these opiated sticks did you see ??
maybe they were all fake thai sticks ??
those were around ,
were they green , red ,, brown , orange ??

at least u mention a tar like substance on them i guess ,
but u can be pretty sure they were not from thailand and not a thai stick ,
if you listen to reports from people there at the time , people smuggling them ,
folks with first hand experience , they all say the same thing ,
no such thing as opiated thai sticks ,
and as far as i can see , only second and third hand stories say its true ,
like some legend handed down , hahaha ,
the other thing in common with those folks and those stories ,
none spent any time in thailand ....

I think ill make this the last post on this ,
if u want to believe these stories , go ahead ,
its amazing folks loyalties to stories they were told over anything more logical and using first hand experiences from folks who were there , people just love tall tales it seems , crazy , but true ...

The one in Kodiak and another in the UP of Michigan. Those are the 2 I saw first-hand.

As I recall, the one in Kodiak had the darker resin I mentioned but was darker green with some light brown to it as well. Attached to the stick with a fine fiber string of sorts.

Do you believe there was such a concerted and organized, quasi-regulated effort in that time period involving cannabis (Thai stick) production that if one wasn't doing something, then no one was? That alone sounds far-fetched to me.

I also attended University of Alaska-Fairbanks in 1980 through 1985 with a Thai fellow who'd immigrated to Michigan in 1975 and remained a friend for some time, until his drinking habit had him behaving irresponsibly.

I suspect, especially for the 1970s, there's a bit of excessive expectation or belief in the alleged uniformity at that time involving such products.

In the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, in the mid- later-mid-1970s, I lived on a farm that was among a number of farms in that area, North of Marquette, off-grid, owned and operated by 'Nam vets who'd been part of the 'back to the land' movement. They had first-hand experiences involving the various drugs they did overseas.

In fact, a primary reason for being on Kodiak Island involved tracking down a chef who'd pretended to be a friend to them and had burned a number of them via checks they'd co-signed for him so he could get back to Alaska.

I've been around folks who frequented that area, both as primary residence and as GIs on leave..

 

[Jellyfish]

I was getting the uniform sticks from a cabbie I was close with and dealing them out of the harbor. They were good, but not incredibly good.

My brother took a loooong ride with a cabbie to the place where he procured, say, a backpack full of very uniform, about six inch sticks, tied with a string, maybe hemp, This would have been around 77 for my bro, what about you, moose eater?

 

[Donald Mallard]

The one in Kodiak and another in the UP of Michigan. Those are the 2 I saw first-hand.

As I recall, the one in Kodiak had the darker resin I mentioned but was darker green with some light brown to it as well. Attached to the stick with a fine fiber string of sorts.

Do you believe there was such a concerted and organized, quasi-regulated effort in that time period involving cannabis (Thai stick) production that if one wasn't doing something, then no one was? That alone sounds far-fetched to me.

I also attended University of Alaska-Fairbanks in 1980 through 1985 with a Thai fellow who'd immigrated to Michigan in 1975 and remained a friend for some time, until his drinking habit had him behaving irresponsibly.

I suspect, especially for the 1970s, there's a bit of excessive expectation or belief in the alleged uniformity at that time involving such products.

In the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, in the mid- later-mid-1970s, I lived on a farm that was among a number of farms in that area, North of Marquette, off-grid, owned and operated by 'Nam vets who'd been part of the 'back to the land' movement. They had first-hand experiences involving the various drugs they did overseas.

In fact, a primary reason for being on Kodiak Island involved tracking down a chef who'd pretended to be a friend to them and had burned a number of them via checks they'd co-signed for him so he could get back to Alaska.

I've been around folks who frequented that area, both as primary residence and as GIs on leave..

i know i said i wouldnt comment ,, but i thought since u directed this at me i would ,
so you only saw 2 of these so called thai sticks ,, but really cant trace them to thailand at all ,
but your sure they are from thailand ??
lol ,, i think you know what i think dont you >??

and your experience of thailand is you met one dude , and some other friends have been overseas , but you definitely have never been to thailand ,
have no idea of the culture , the geography , the way they do business , work with thais in other parts of thailand etc ??
in other words , you are clueless , but expect us to believe your story because of course no one would ever lie to you , or tell you a tall tale ??
again , im sure you know what im thinking ,, and with this , i rest my case ,, case closed as far as im concerned.. the jury can rest ....

 

[moose eater]

@Jellyfish Late Fall, 1978 on Kodiak. But not a long ride. Kodiak is a small community, though the roads go for miles down the Island. All of the referenced deals and experiences re. Kodiak took place in Kodiak, the town.

 

[moose eater]

i know i said i wouldnt comment ,, but i thought since u directed this at me i would ,
so you only saw 2 of these so called thai sticks ,, but really cant trace them to thailand at all ,
but your sure they are from thailand ??
lol ,, i think you know what i think dont you >??

and your experience of thailand is you met one dude , and some other friends have been overseas , but you definitely have never been to thailand ,
have no idea of the culture , the geography , the way they do business , work with thais in other parts of thailand etc ??
in other words , you are clueless , but expect us to believe your story because of course no one would ever lie to you , or tell you a tall tale ??
again , im sure you know what im thinking ,, and with this , i rest my case ,, case closed as far as im concerned.. the jury can rest ....

It was directed at you, Donald, because the post I was replying to was directed toward me, by you. That's how exchanges work.... written, orally, etc..

Neither the classmate in Fairbanks, nor the former GIs in the UP of Michigan knew each other.

Nor did the engineer on Kodiak with the one opiated stick know the others.

No, I wasn't present when the opiated sticks were made or procured. I was present when they were smoked, and I took part.

If that doesn't fit another's narrow paradigm of what is and isn't possible or real, so be it. I know the people involved, and I have no reason to doubt their reports.

What's questionable is that this causes insults, implied or otherwise, and the other reactions it apparently brings with it.

I don't tell tall tales online or in person. My experiences are mine.

 

[Donald Mallard]

im not insulted at all ,
i just like facts , and i prefer first hand accounts to second , third etc ,
they tend to be a lot more accurate ,
though its not alway s the case of course ,
but if you hear the exact same thing from many people,
who all experienced it first hand ,
then its more likely true than not ....

ive heard the story you have told too ,
and some got upset that i suggested their "friend" or "source" had lied to them ,
in fact they have simply reiterated what they have been told by someone else ,
it still remains inaccurate , not outright lying perhaps, but with no information to back it up ,
no first hand experience , just some rumor , and gullible people then repeat this information,
treating it as though its a fact ...
this is how it works mr moose ,

a member on this site who toured thailand during the hay day of thai stick production,
and asked the thais about this thai stick with opium on it ,
do you know what they said ??
they said its just an urban myth there is no such thing ,
this is people in the trade , who live in the country , the source of that product ,
if you are comfortable believing folks who have never even been there rather than sources like i have just mentioned then good for you ,
but id have to put you in that gullible section with the others who believe such things and repeat them as though they are factual ...

 

[moose eater]

im not insulted at all ,
i just like facts , and i prefer first hand accounts to second , third etc ,
they tend to be a lot more accurate ,
though its not alway s the case of course ,
but if you hear the exact same thing from many people,
who all experienced it first hand ,
then its more likely true than not ....

ive heard the story you have told too ,
and some got upset that i suggested their "friend" or "source" had lied to them ,
in fact they have simply reiterated what they have been told by someone else ,
it still remains inaccurate , not outright lying perhaps, but with no information to back it up ,
no first hand experience , just some rumor , and gullible people then repeat this information,
treating it as though its a fact ...
this is how it works mr moose ,

a member on this site who toured thailand during the hay day of thai stick production,
and asked the thais about this thai stick with opium on it ,
do you know what they said ??
they said its just an urban myth there is no such thing ,
this is people in the trade , who live in the country , the source of that product ,
if you are comfortable believing folks who have never even been there rather than sources like i have just mentioned then good for you ,
but id have to put you in that gullible section with the others who believe such things and repeat them as though they are factual ...

The crab boat engineer I smoked the opiated stick with while I was in Kodiak, I had assumed he'd procured it in SE Asia. (my reference to 'well-traveled' earlier)

The student at UAF was from there.

The GIs in the UP had taken leave in Thailand more than once.

Saying something isn't common or routine, versus saying something doesn't happen, are 2 very different statements.

I enjoyed the smoke. And yes, it was unique, even in contrast to the smaller bagged sticks I was dealing in Kodiak back then.

No, I'm not terribly gullible. Left home at age 13 the first time by thumb and spent enough time on the road for a long while, dealing starting at age 13, as well as many other adventures, to not fall prey to gullibility too often.

There are a handful of folks on these forums who know me now in real life, who I suspect can attest to my demeanor, personality, and relative accuracy in perceptions.

 

[Creeperpark]

Thailand borders Vietnam?

Not when I was last there.
But that was decades ago, so things might have changed?

Before Charlie was present. Damn

 

[Chuck Jägerschnitzel]

I was sold "Thai stick" or possibly "tied stick" in the late 1980s in Virginia, it was shake or ground bud that had been mixed with BHO, packed around a skewer and then had fishing lie wrapped around the whole thing so the BHO didn't stick to the plastic bags they were in. I really doubt it came from Thailand, but it was great stuff, really strong. I liked the format too, you could unwind the fishing a few times around to pack the next bowl and the rest of the stick stayed protected, whoever put them together did a nice job. Only saw them twice, they were $25 each & well worth it. I didn't know what Thai stick was back then, I thought they had that name cause they were tied to a stick.

 

[Chi13]

I never saw any Thai stick beyond about 1980ish. Thats not to say they didn't exist beyond this. I think though if opium was present that would have come out in the book by the smugglers that Hammer posted a video of.

A guy I knew at university bought a pound off a local and made the entire lot into little hand rolled sticks so they would sell better. He didn't pass them off as Thai sticks but a few assumed they were. But there were definitely fakes out there.

 

[Chi13]

These people are doing valuable work. The public domain idea is very good. I've been into cannabis since late 60's, and just like the man says, Thai stick was easily the best I ever experienced in all my years:

Great video btw. Gone off topic a bit but preservation is so important. I have grown a few landrace and although difficult, well worth it in terms of unique, unmuddied effects. I've subscribed to that channel so much appreciated.

 

[moose eater]

I never saw any Thai stick beyond about 1980ish. Thats not to say they didn't exist beyond this. I think though if opium was present that would have come out in the book by the smugglers that Hammer posted a video of.

A guy I knew at university bought a pound off a local and made the entire lot into little hand rolled sticks so they would sell better. He didn't pass them off as Thai sticks but a few assumed they were. But there were definitely fakes out there.

In the early 1980s, a small group of folks were importing red Buddha Thai (flowers) (among other Thai contraband) to the Interior of Alaska, and I was buying lbs. of that for about $2,500.

I recently sent the remaining seeds from those lbs. to another forum member in the Midwest. Hopefully he gets some assistance from one of our more successful resident pros re. germinating ancient seeds, as they are about 41 or 42 years old now.

A well-connected local (Fairbanks) restauranteur was convicted later for conspiracy to distribute (Thai) contraband to (10%; 5 states) in the USA with a private DC-8 and private pilots. He was financially connected to then-US Senator Frank Murkowski (R-Alaska), who'd previously been President of Bank of the North, whose bank went under during the S&L scandals. (First-hand knowledge of some of Frank's shenanigans came to me from a former head teller there when I was looking for dirt on Frank to hand to someone opposing him in a Governor's campaign, involving routine incidents that assisted in his bank's failure, including loss at that time of over $1 million of The Bering Straits Native Corp's $$).

Frank helped Billy Bubbel (the defendant in the Thai smuggling case, recently deceased) get Historic Monument Status for his restaurant, 'The Pump House', some time before the smuggling charges came to light, as the 'Pump House' had originally been a water pumping station preceding the existence of Fairbanks, when the alternate location on the river, preceding the formal existence of Fairbanks, was known back in the very early 1900s as 'River City'.

When Bubbel was released from Federal custody for his 'conspiracy' charges (though the operation had gone well beyond mere 'conspiracy'), having served a substantially lesser sentence than the average high-volume smuggler, he went back to operating his restaurant, which had been placed in his his wife's ownership and name, though Bubbel was apparently prohibited from being an actual owner, as being a convicted felon and owning a liquor license don't go together too well.

More Thai smuggling history from Alaska.

 

[Donald Mallard]

I never saw any Thai stick beyond about 1980ish. Thats not to say they didn't exist beyond this. I think though if opium was present that would have come out in the book by the smugglers that Hammer posted a video of.

A guy I knew at university bought a pound off a local and made the entire lot into little hand rolled sticks so they would sell better. He didn't pass them off as Thai sticks but a few assumed they were. But there were definitely fakes out there.

we did get some thai after 1980,
the last drizzled out in 84-85 but wasnt tied to a stick
it was golden thai/buddha ,
which we think was better than the sticked up stuff ,

in the early 90s we got a bunch of compressed stuff too ,
while i didnt know it at the time , on a trip to thailand in 2010 ish,
i noted it was exactly the same as stuff i found there ,coming from laos , aka laos brick...