Smart Pots

[choch]

It seems to me that most people are trying smart pots using too big a pot. The idea is that the roots hit the side of the pot and prune, causing more root growth within the existing media. Many people seem to choose a very large pot which would greatly reduce the number of roots reaching the edge of the pot, meaning the benefits of the air pruning would also be greatly reduced.

The need for a very large pot is to reduce the rootbound problem in traditional pots as well as reduce the watering frequency. I think to make max use of air pruning with a short term plant you'd need to use a slightly smaller pot than with a plastic pot and just accept the fact that more wet dry cycles means faster feeding and awesome growth.

 

[justiceman]

secondtry I just wanted to say thank you again especially for those extra links you put up. Man that information is so vital. I never even thought of a medium in that way. I just merely had assumptions that were completely wrong. It's enlightening. wow can't thank you enough

Can't wait to try out some smart pots.

 

[secondtry]

NP. I am happy you are so open to learning and being OK with the fact your knowledge was wrong before, that's a rare and very admirable trait, I am impressed. It is amazing how much incorrect info is passed off as correct in the cannabis world...

 

[rasputin]

Nice thread CC, lot of good info in here. I just picked up two 2 gal SmartPots to give myself a little test run with em. Saw the Air Pots too available for 8 to 15 bucks a pot for the 3 & 5 gals. Look intriguing but apparently some not so favorable reviews are in on them.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

Thanks CC,

You like using them when growing cannabis indoors?

RE: 'more dense', do you mean bulk density? Where did that claim come from, a seller/manufacture of the SmartPot? I am curious why they would suggest that (I don't see the link with media density), do you have any more info?

Snowing here!

2ndTry

Poor choice of words on my part. What I was trying to convey is that if you're growing a plant for resale, it's going to be in a pot in a field for 18-30 months depending on the variety, you can expect to see a 'more developed' root mass in any of the auto-pruning pots offered to commercial growers.

It is not my point that SmartPots are the best available in the auto-pruning technology - they're not. They are however available in small numbers through the grow stores.

For indoor growing I would probably recommend one of the plastic auto pruning pots (I'll try and get a link to a couple of products) but unfortunately these require 100+ minimum order.

Back when the thread first started I made available a PDF of a field study conducted by the Oregon Association of Nurseries in partnership with the Department of Agriculture at Oregon State University in Corvallis, Oregon. This field test only concerned itself with growing trees and hardy perennials (junipers for example) so the findings are probably not applicable to growing an annual like cannabis.

If there were no other reason, I choose to use the SmartPots for other reasons.

1. They're about the same price as the industry-standard lipped nursery pots which are NOT the ones sold in the grow store industry.

2. They're easier to clean - by far.

3. They keep the root mass cooler which is important when temps here run 100F+ degrees in the summer coupled with 90+ humidity levels

4. They're lighter

HTH

CC

 

[Maj.Cottonmouth]

I made a little video of a method I have started using when up potting using Smart Pots, enjoy.

http://www.icmag.com/viewarticle.php?articleid=1135

 

[Zendo]

I made a little video of a method I have started using when up potting using Smart Pots, enjoy.

http://www.icmag.com/viewarticle.php?articleid=1135

Nice video! I figured that was the way to do it, but it's great to see it done live.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

I made a little video of a method I have started using when up potting using Smart Pots, enjoy.

http://www.icmag.com/viewarticle.php?articleid=1135

Maj.Cottonmouth

Thank you for your time preparing the video. I learned quite a bit as your method is FAR better than the method that I've always used.

Specifically the glass bowl to steady the plant and provide room to roll down the sides (for lack of a better term).

Great info and a MUST SEE if one is using smaller pots and then moving up to a larger cloth pot.

CC

 

[justiceman]

I made a little video of a method I have started using when up potting using Smart Pots, enjoy.

http://www.icmag.com/viewarticle.php?articleid=1135

Excellent Video. Thanks for the Info!

 

[Maina]

what size smart pots should I have? I will be veging for 3 months indoors in 3 gallon grow bags .When they go outdoors in June I want to put them in smartpots last year I used grow bags 10-20-30 gallon just to see.The big bags did very well I tried 1 45 gallon trash can and the plant was no bigger than the one in the 30 gallon bags.I have to lug all the soil way back into the woods so im trying to run a fine line of not to big not to small.It will be a organic grow with a self watering set up.Thanks for any help.

 

[herbal gerbil]

MC,

Thnaks for the video, nice work. I'v been toying with the outdoor air pot with fabric liner concept. Prototype in the works. 100 gallon range.

HG

 

[dankohzee]

what size smart pots should I have? I will be veging for 3 months indoors in 3 gallon grow bags .When they go outdoors in June I want to put them in smartpots last year I used grow bags 10-20-30 gallon just to see.The big bags did very well I tried 1 45 gallon trash can and the plant was no bigger than the one in the 30 gallon bags.I have to lug all the soil way back into the woods so im trying to run a fine line of not to big not to small.It will be a organic grow with a self watering set up.Thanks for any help.

I used the 45 s last year and my plants were fucking monstrous. Overkill, I think. I foget what sizes they come in, but I'm pretty sure 30 gal would be plenty. Oh, definitely use some sort of mulch...

 

[secondtry]

Hey CC,

Do you still have that study you wrote about? The link is dead. Filedepot is a decent file up-loader site.

I plan to make my own SmartPots (SM) only because SM are not tall enough, I want ones at least 12" tall (15" is better) and at most 12" in diameter. Have you used homemade SP before?

You mentioned the stability issues of SP and how moving plants can be bad so I plan to use hydroton to form a 1-2" layer at bottom of hard plastic pot. Then I will put SP inside the hard plastic pot and fill the SP with media. To keep the SP stable I will fill space between the walls of SP and hard plastic pot with hydroton. That way the tap root and bottom roots in SP will be air-pruned and the SP will be stabilized and I can pick them up without worry (using plastic pot to pick up). I grow on an ebb/flow table (4'x4') over a rez so the drainage water doesn't sit in hard plastic pot and hydroton should try quickly.

Here is the only study I can find about SP verses AirPots verses Accelerator pots verses RootMaker pots verses traditional pots, etc. In this study the researchers found little reason to use air-pots but as CC wrote, cannabis is not the same as a small tree sapling...however, SP did yield more dry matter than almost all other tested pots.

Dr. James Owen, Jr., Dr. Carolyn Scagel, and Heather Stoven. (2008)

"EFFECT OF CONTAINER ARCHITECTURE ON GROWTH AND WATER USE EFECIENCY OF COARSE AND FINE ROOTED TREES"
submitted to AGRICULTURAL RESEARCH FOUNDATION for OREGON ASSOCIATION OF NURSEIRES and NURSERY RESEARCH AND REGULATORY COMMITTEE
http://www.oregon.gov/ODA/PLANT/NURSERY/docs/pdf/grant_fr_owen07.pdf​

 

[secondtry]

Pics from that study:

 

[chef]

Hey Ganja, 2ndtry, why the name change drama?

hey,
Sorry to say it can and it's better to increase the height of the container to increase drainage than to add a drainage layer. Using the same media in the whole container is best IMO. HTH

Anyway, I don't doubt your PWT reasoning.
I want a wicking action from the bottom of these smart pots though, to pull water down faster, from the drip above.
When you add up big thirsty feeders, the wicking/capillary action of the fabric pots & evaporation, its tough to keep them evenly watered.
After some more thought on the problem, I'm simply back to adjusting my soil mix porosity to handle & disperse a higher flow rate.

On the pot shape & size... I just finished some tests comparing tall/skinny vs short/wide & the short/wide beats the tall/skinny.

MJ likes to stretch its toes & bigger pots (any shape) are always better!

 

[mad librettist]

name change drama? who? what? I do like to spread my toes...

anyway, chef, can you elaborate on your observation re: shape of the pot? Same volume I assume?

I keep wondering if PWT really harms cannabis as it's commonly grown. Because right now, I have to water every other day, and that's with plant nannies. Maybe as a seedling the plant would have been in danger or slowed down. But I always get complete root infiltration, all the way down, and if I set a humidity tray, roots come out the drainage holes.

 

[chef]

The craziest observation & what first alerted me to how important pots/soil/rootmass could be, was a simple 1, 3, 7gal pot test back in the 80's. The results looked a lot like 2ndtry's pic of the various pots above, only more so in relation to container size.
Besides the undeniable "bigger is better" results, the crazy part was the 3gal pots that were square. Those plants actually took on a square "top down" silhouette like their container.
Things that make ya go Hmmmm or more like WTF in this case lol

Back to the task at hand. IME, the above air prunerpot test is totally skewed by container size & proves the above theory once again, size matters. The plants size is directly related to the container size.
The only variable is fabric being far superior to plastic/holes. Proven by the 300cm (fabric) Small Utility Band beating the larger 380cm (plastic w/holes) Accelerator & the headsup 480cm, Smartpots smoke the plastic Rootmaker II's

Time to re-run a more controlled & documented test of my small vs large footprints/same volume. Last one was full #7 SP's vs shortfilled #10 SP's, both dipping below the minimum soil mass required for proper biological activity.
I'll run full #10 vs shortfilled #15's this time, should be a good 8" wider. IME, with full #10's, properly inoculated, you can barely squeak into the golden 3' x 3' min rule for compost pile activity & really get'em cookin'

Killer data as usual 2ndtry, you just need to get a bit more dirt under those fingernails & learn that pics (& those that partially rely upon them) aren't the devil

 

[mad librettist]

you just need to get a bit more dirt under those fingernails & learn that pics (& those that partially rely upon them) aren't the devil

You can't win though. If you have dirt under your nails someone will call you a hillbilly, or your wife will shriek about you cooking dinner with worm castings lining your fingers.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

Here is the only study I can find about SP verses AirPots verses Accelerator pots verses RootMaker pots verses traditional pots, etc. In this study the researchers found little reason to use air-pots but as CC wrote, cannabis is not the same as a small tree sapling...however, SP did yield more dry matter than almost all other tested pots.

Dr. James Owen, Jr., Dr. Carolyn Scagel, and Heather Stoven. (2008)

"EFFECT OF CONTAINER ARCHITECTURE ON GROWTH AND WATER USE EFECIENCY OF COARSE AND FINE ROOTED TREES"
submitted to AGRICULTURAL RESEARCH FOUNDATION for OREGON ASSOCIATION OF NURSEIRES and NURSERY RESEARCH AND REGULATORY COMMITTEE
http://www.oregon.gov/ODA/PLANT/NURSERY/docs/pdf/grant_fr_owen07.pdf​

secondtry

The link you provided is to the same study done in conjunction with the Oregon Association of Nurseries that I linked to last year. I'm glad you were able to find it - good solid analysis of the various auto-pruning pots (aka air-pruning).

I'll look forward to seeing some photos of your SP design!

CC

 

[secondtry]

Thanks. What is the consensus on the best material to use if one makes their own? I want to make a model with a 10" base (diameter) and 14-16" height (I have a sowing machine).