Slownickel lounge, pull up a chair. CEC interpretation

[daddylonglegs]

What are you feeding these plants. 27 and 37% Mg, holy shit. I'd just start fresh. CEC of 49 on the one so it'll be a bitch to push cations off

Ya the soil with 49 cec and 37 mag is gonna be set aside for now, the other , for the outdoor I would like to try and work with , I'm thinking the mag is from compost I had delivered ... To that soil it's only one season old and I only put a few amendments at bottom of pot

 

[daddylonglegs]

The tactics that come to my mind are :

Gypsum will break down and lower sodium along with loosening soil and soak up some
Cec sites ( and obviously raise the base saturation)

Add sand to mix to alter cec and help drainage and soil condition , all those small mag particles have that mix dense ...

Grow immense amounts of spinach and chard on that mix from April - June in hopes of them consuming a lot of magnesium

Clearly needs more phos and potassium as well, not confident on reading the N... then just before outdoor planting re test to see any changes ...

Any other suggestions ?

 

[plantingplants]

i like your spinach and chard idea, though you better pull them with enough time to test and amend before planting. what plants eat a shitload of magnesium?

 

[mapinguari]

i like your spinach and chard idea, though you better pull them with enough time to test and amend before planting. what plants eat a shitload of magnesium?

looks like okra and yarrow might be good choices: https://phytochem.nal.usda.gov/phytochem/chemicals/show/11854?qlookup=magnesium&offset=0&max=20&et=

 

[growingcrazy]

Anybody else have any tests from Michigan? I would be curious to see if we are all overloaded on Mg.

 

[slownickel]

Wow, planting cover crops to get rid of Magnesium? Who gets the award for this idea?

Someone is lost. Not going to happen. Ever. Do the math. Any idea of how much Mg you are talking about?

Use gypsum when you have high Mg in a neutral or alkaline pH. Without that high S and a cation to push the other one out, Mg will just sit there and plug everything up.

 

[daddylonglegs]

Lol so the answer is simply gypsum and water it in . It'll break down the sodium , fill cec sites, and correct drainage and wash out my magnesium...Few hundred pounds of gypsum arrive tomorrow... after watering any suggestions on how long to wait before re testing ...

I have some more soil results I did not post of freshly made super soils , not my used , for comparison, mag comes back still 35 on the AA ......compost ?

 

[daddylonglegs]

Wow, planting cover crops to get rid of Magnesium? Who gets the award for this idea?

Someone is lost. Not going to happen. Ever. Do the math. Any idea of how much Mg you are talking about?

^^ saying a vegetable crop will not change anything ? Or so much mag won't allow for nutrient cycling ? .

 

[slownickel]

Sure, you can try and put in veggies for several years, that ought to lower your Mg by 100 ppm or so.

Or you trying to grow a crop this year?

The lab didn't post your results into my directory, didn't see the results. Ask the guys at the lab to post it for me and I can run some numbers for you. (they let me down load in excel)....

 

[daddylonglegs]

I emailed them to you, sure I can ask. With the outdoor soil yes this year I am using it . The other one I don't think will be ready any time soon...

 

[growingcrazy]

View Image

So by my calculations using the equations on Spectrums site:

4.5 lbs/yd to reduce Na to acceptable level

OR

10 lbs/yd to get calcium up to + ~82% and wash out the Na as well as a some of the Mg. I am less concerned with the Mg as I am the sodium.

Those numbers just seem like a small amount to me...

 

[daddylonglegs]

So by my calculations using the equations on Spectrums site:

4.5 lbs/yd to reduce Na to acceptable level

OR

10 lbs/yd to get calcium up to + ~82% and wash out the Na as well as a some of the Mg. I am less concerned with the Mg as I am the sodium.

Those numbers just seem like a small amount to me...

Thanks for that , I don't know why I'd didn't recall seeing that on their site ...

Salt concerns me, I've had high mag apparently my whole soil growing experience ( ten years soil) even a fresh mix is still more of a 2:1 or 3:1 ratio for cal mag and can easily hit 8-12 ounce plants indoor in a ten gallon pot with other variables in check... so I'm more than curious to see what a 8:1 or 10:1 will result as I've never seen it ... and how much more efficient my other ferts become

That 6 year old mix with the 37 mag and 40 something cec,,, I am finishing a round in it now . Needs 3 times the normal fert applications to see results similar to freshly made soil like the rev 2.1 mix . If I were to guess I would hold the salt and cec a bit more responsible than the mag, simply because that variable hasn't changed for me from the start...

 

[growingcrazy]

Thanks for that , I don't know why I'd didn't recall seeing that on their site ...

Salt concerns me, I've had high mag apparently my whole soil growing experience ( ten years soil) even a fresh mix is still more of a 2:1 or 3:1 ratio for cal mag and can easily hit 8-12 ounce plants indoor in a ten gallon pot with other variables in check... so I'm more than curious to see what a 8:1 or 10:1 will result as I've never seen it ... and how much more efficient my other ferts become

That 6 year old mix with the 37 mag and 40 something cec,,, I am finishing a round in it now . Needs 3 times the normal fert applications to see results similar to freshly made soil like the rev 2.1 mix . If I were to guess I would hold the salt and cec a bit more responsible than the mag, simply because that variable hasn't changed for me from the start...

Sorry, that calculation is for my mix.

Spectrum has the equations in the gypsum articles.

What kind of runoff ppm are you getting from your indoor pots compared to your water sources ppm?

 

[reppin2c]

DDlong You should test your water too. I have a feeling that's what the real problem is

 

[daddylonglegs]

R O indoor after a softener , not brand new maybe needs new filters
Well water for outside , by passes softener
I can always get new filters or reverse osmosis for indoor if indeed they lost their integrity , but outdoor I really dno whatbdo do with those extras from the well, I remember a hundred or so pages back there was a bit of discussion on water quality for farmin with acres + .. but that bit ended with, use whatvya have and add more gypsum to help deal with water conditions .

I could connect softener to hose which does improve water from the iron calcium sulphur etc. but can't control the excess salt from softener so dno if that would be helping or hurting , I don't thing anything good from salt like that ....

 

[growingcrazy]

Looks like about 16 lbs/ yd to get you above 80% Ca, but that is with uncorrected Ca used in the equation.

My explanation: I never used [email protected] in the past. I used my Ca CEC % as is in a liming calculator and that number would always land within -4 - +6 of desired Ca%, roughly a 10% window. This is also about the same percentage that is now shown/known via the [email protected]. Lucky guessing I suppose.

 

[daddylonglegs]

This past test was mine first with aa8.2 ...
when this thread started I had a few half ass tests done at MSU and even 2 at spectrum ( just s3) and was making my adjustments from that ... was just a waste of time ... I was applying what I read based on false results , like 20% swing on some categories , which is obviously a lot ... curuous why thy even have that ag test when the AA 8.2 changes the results completely

 

[daddylonglegs]

Sorry, that calculation is for my mix.

Spectrum has the equations in the gypsum articles.

What kind of runoff ppm are you getting from your indoor pots compared to your water sources ppm?

My water people are coming out this week to test my water coming in ...

 

[slownickel]

This past test was mine first with aa8.2 ...
when this thread started I had a few half ass tests done at MSU and even 2 at spectrum ( just s3) and was making my adjustments from that ... was just a waste of time ... I was applying what I read based on false results , like 20% swing on some categories , which is obviously a lot ... curuous why thy even have that ag test when the AA 8.2 changes the results completely

The idea of using [email protected] came from the PGA, not the ag community.

I introduced the idea to a couple of forums on the net, including that of Steve Solomon. Both he and Astera incorporated the [email protected] into their tool box.

I doubt you will find many other labs in the US that will run that procedure unless they are working with golf courses.

The Ag community has not adopted this process to distinguish what is going on.

You guys are on the cutting edge! Imagine! And yes, look at the difference regarding Ca.

I had known for too many years that M3 was over estimating Ca, as does AA@pH 7, which lots of labs use. There was no real procedure to rely on til the PGA guys did the research. I knew that the numbers for Ca were overstated since my trials would nearly always respond even better to the addition of 50% or more gypsum over my calculated quantities.

And as you can see, no lab is going to recommend it either. For the labs, it is just an additional headache.

 

[slownickel]

DDlong You should test your water too. I have a feeling that's what the real problem is

[URL=http://www.dayzeddesigns.com/images/i2fdl95nez0tytqgxgoy.jpg]View Image[/URL]

Does it really bother you that gypsum is the solution so often?