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Slownickel lounge, pull up a chair. CEC interpretation

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Space Case

Space Case

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jidoka said:
Listen to your own sentence...hopefully the carbonate from your water breaks down based on peat and then it might work. That is way to much guessing for me. It sounds kinda like if I be a good boy all my life then magical sky daddy will send me to Valhalla...shiny and chrome. Nice wish but what are the actual odds. Plus gypsum definitely has a place but nothing but gypsum you are gonna push out some K for sure.

Get an injector ahead of your holding tank and treat your water so you don't have to guess...N Phuric maybe

Plus even if I gotta fuck with it in Denver I hate coco. Getting it alive is a bitch. I got a sample heading for microbe testing now if they listened (always a question). Plus because it is acidic peat gives you more room to make amendments...Ca.

That is why I said what I did.
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It wouldn't be guessing, it would be a trial with data being recorded and monitored. I can't honestly say beforehand with the calcium and bicarbonate in my water, and my style of watering, frequency, run-off, etc. how much of that calcium carbonate is really gonna build up in the soil. The only way would be to try it and record the data, monitor pH, and get soil tests often. I could still have a successful grow with that trial. If the pH gets too high, I'll know that peat on its own isn't enough to overcome that bicarbonate, and can use a soil test to verify that. If things get too acidic, I could always lime it and dial things in the next grow. I just want to use peat to my advantage and not use liming materials if there is basically lime in my water, and dial in from there. Why go to the trouble of injectors and n-phuric acid? Plus citric, sulfuric, and phosphoric acid have worked fine in the past, and not much even to keep soil pH stable.
 
C

calisun

Active member
slownickel said:
Cali,

What pH are you in? Do you have a soil analysis? Fe deficiencies do happen. Not as often as folks might think though.

Iron chlorosis and toxicity look identical. Hard to distinguish between the two. Many products mix Fe and Mn in their formulations. Often you can have iron toxicity due to manganese deficiency. Apply a product with Fe and Mn, the plant responds. Yet everyone starts talking about Fe deficiency. Seen it way too many times, especially in sugar cane. Fields with heavy yellowing on the new growth, they spray Fe and it responds. Fe toxicity usually means the Fe has 3 charges instead of 2 charges. The iron salesman say that your plant has a problem and needs more.... Fe+3 in a plant is because of manganese deficiency, not because a plant forgot which Fe to pick up. Salesmen....

That kiss product has a lot of Na in it. 1000 ppm. Not sure why they would do that.

The other product from Liquinox is a EDTA chelate. The size of that EDTA molecule is huge. Look for Albion or Baicor chelates. They are amino acids and a fraction of the size of the EDTA molecule. EDTA is very old school technology from 30+ years ago. Now there are much better chelating agents available.
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Indoor soil pH from bagged soil is 5.9 my water is pH is 6.5
My outdoor soil ph was 7 when I tested it last spring. After amending it I'm hoping it dropped to 6.5 or so. I have high bicarbonates in my water. It's from a well. I will get a new soil and water test done from spectrum next week. A M3 extra shake and irrigation water test. Can I have it cc to you or I can just post it. You can pm me the info to ask for if you like.

I noticed the high sodium tetraborate in the ff flowers kiss too. That is the same ingredient in the 20 mule team borax (laundry detergent booster) i used to amend my soil with outside last year for a boron deficiency. It will be interesting to see if my sodium level went up in my new soil tests.
 
S

slownickel

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calisun said:
Indoor soil pH from bagged soil is 5.9 my water is pH is 6.5
My outdoor soil ph was 7 when I tested it last spring. After amending it I'm hoping it dropped to 6.5 or so. I have high bicarbonates in my water. It's from a well. I will get a new soil and water test done from spectrum next week. A M3 extra shake and irrigation water test. Can I have it cc to you or I can just post it. You can pm me the info to ask for if you like.

I noticed the high sodium tetraborate in the ff flowers kiss too. That is the same ingredient in the 20 mule team borax (laundry detergent booster) i used to amend my soil with outside last year for a boron deficiency. It will be interesting to see if my sodium level went up in my new soil tests.
Click to expand...

Did you post your water analysis some where? How much bicarbonate you have? At that pH, I wouldn't suspect that much bicarbonate...
 
C

calisun

Active member
slownickel said:
Did you post your water analysis some where? How much bicarbonate you have? At that pH, I wouldn't suspect that much bicarbonate...
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Not in this thread they were in my thread soil tests two different companies. Here they are.
They won't upload for some reason but here is the link to the thread. All the info is in the first post.
I'm also trying to figure out a way to fix my water quality. Maybe I'll use the unfiltered for the garden but still run it through the UV light.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=325602
 
plantingplants

plantingplants

Active member
Slow, can you tell us about what seedlings want? I've just figured you give them good balanced soil but they need more P right? And lots of Ca.. so how do you plant your seed? Do you just add a shot of P and Ca at planting? What might that look like for little containers? A sprinkle of dicalcium phosphate or gypsum plus ammonium phosphate in some good soil in a 4"x4" pot? Guess you'd have to calculate it..
 
HillMizer

HillMizer

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ic


ic
 
Buddler

Buddler

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Hi slow been reading your thread and trying to catch up probly already covered. How do I amend gypsum in coco can I topdress ? and water in or what how much per gall ? Thank you
Bud
 
S

slownickel

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Buddler said:
Hi slow been reading your thread and trying to catch up probly already covered. How do I amend gypsum in coco can I topdress ? and water in or what how much per gall ? Thank you
Bud
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What dimension are your pots?

Is it pure COCO or you have other stuff in there?
 
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slownickel

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plantingplants said:
Slow, can you tell us about what seedlings want? I've just figured you give them good balanced soil but they need more P right? And lots of Ca.. so how do you plant your seed? Do you just add a shot of P and Ca at planting? What might that look like for little containers? A sprinkle of dicalcium phosphate or gypsum plus ammonium phosphate in some good soil in a 4"x4" pot? Guess you'd have to calculate it..
Click to expand...

I tend to use sand, and a bit of soil from a good place under one of my trees that is full of worms. Never miss that way!
 
EastBayGrower

EastBayGrower

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plantingplants said:
Slow, can you tell us about what seedlings want? I've just figured you give them good balanced soil but they need more P right? And lots of Ca.. so how do you plant your seed? Do you just add a shot of P and Ca at planting? What might that look like for little containers? A sprinkle of dicalcium phosphate or gypsum plus ammonium phosphate in some good soil in a 4"x4" pot? Guess you'd have to calculate it..
Click to expand...

+1, silica?
 
HillMizer

HillMizer

Member
HillMizer said:
Yay a Slownickel thread!
I'm making an excel spreadsheet right now
I'm thinking the "Ideal Soil" ratios for >7 PH even though mine are <7
83.5% Ca
10% Mg
5% K

Ca= TCEC*400*.835
Mg= TCEC*240*.10
K= TCEC*780*.05

this is for lbs/acre
Is this correct? My K Target number comes out much lower than Logan's desired target for K. Like 1/2 as much, on the document it says they are using 3-5%

Thanks Slownickel and everyone else.
Click to expand...

picture.php

Hey guys I'm getting confused a bit can you help me out? My spreadsheet ain't working out

So if I had that CEC of 28 I wanted completely 100% saturated with calcium I would figure 28x200x1= 5600 PPM or 11200 lbs/acre

How I'm looking at this reporting 12790 in either PPM or Lbs/acre is still more than 100% saturation of that 28 meq CEC.

I'm really confused tonight, I guess I don't have this thing figured out
I'm looking at 28(meq cec)*200*.835= 4675 PPM calcium to get my 83.5% saturation.

These critters are reporting that I have 53% calcium saturation in one column and more than 100% in the other column? Even if I drop the zero on the calcium figure or figure it in lbs/acre it doesn't work out for me.
 
J

jidoka

Active member
cec contribution of ca is limited to 3000 ppm by spectrum. your cec is under reported. they suck at peat based soils
 
_tessarecting

_tessarecting

&#2963;
My logan labs test says cec 18, spectrum 5 months later 25.
Logan om 33.96% spectrum 8.6%

Is this because of the half scoop?



Edit: I know there's a trick to this because people have their spreadsheets worked out for the specific labs. I'm going to research
 
HillMizer

HillMizer

Member
The OM on this analysis was reported at 8.5 which I can say is really low. Logan would have reported it at more than 50% I think.

The mix is 50% peat 25% dairy compost 25% lava. 25 lb dical/ yd. 10lb gyp/yd 10lb ag lime/yard.
 
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