Slownickel lounge, pull up a chair. CEC interpretation

[prune]

i thought bud density is primarily influenced by genetics and sun exposure.
.

And I thought the same thing, treated it as gospel, but then these results started showing in the garden.

Another proverb I recited religiously in the past, was that ripening occurred at the end of flowering, now I see it can be a continuous process throughout budding (if the plant is truly nourished).

amusing anecdote: used to live for that surge when the pyramidal bud structure blunted and effloresced calyxial towers. Now those secondary towers are turreting again

huh, what?

 

[Shcrews]

And I thought the same thing, treated it as gospel, but then these results started showing in the garden.

can you quantify those results? if you grow a plant with water only and it gets 10 ft tall x 10 ft wide and yields 10 pounds at 20%thc and 2% terpenes, then at what rate would those numbers be increased by applying a "heavy" feeding regimen? is it strain dependent? What else can you do besides heavy feedings to achieve better results? should nutrition be the last variable on which to focus, or the first?

i hope these questions make sense.

 

[EasyGoing]

Actually, these are all questions I have asked in this forums as well. I asked everybody if the extra fertizer is "worth it". Everybody seemed to agree it was.

The biggest difference I have found so far, and I plan to do a detailed write up once done, is the trim job. With proper fertilizing, I was able to achieve solid, substantial nugs. When I have my trim crews run through, I will be judging how fast they move. IMO, with the fuller set of flowers, the trim crew will run though the material much faster as well. So instead of growing a 10 x 10, 10 lb monster, I have 7 x7 8 lb monsers. With higher plant numbers, that is a higher gram per ft ratio. Easier to trim, takes up less room in the dry room cause all nugs and no fluff.

WOuld love to hear others opinions as well. Screws quality is A+ every year, and his yields are huge. I would love to see you personally try feeding the crap out of at least one plant next year. Let me know if you want any help.

 

[Guest]

I have looked thru this thread a couple times looking for the formula that slownickle uses to get the saturation numbers. I ask because my soil report from Spectrum had a set of numbers for saturation and then slownickle posted different percentages for my soil. And using formula I found elsewhere I came up with another different set of numbers. Close but still different.

It seems I have also seen differing methods of calculating the saturation values?

Can Mr. Slownickle elaborate or someone point me to the info on calculation methods?

And why are there differing methods of doing what one would think is a standardized formula.

Maybe this has been covered elsewhere but this thread is so big its difficult to go back and find certain posts that have critical info.

If Mr. Slownickle could ammend a post in the first page or two to include his method of calculating his saturation percentages perhaps people would find that very valuable. Unless he already did and I cant find it. THANKS!!!!

 

[growingcrazy]

can you quantify those results? if you grow a plant with water only and it gets 10 ft tall x 10 ft wide and yields 10 pounds at 20%thc and 2% terpenes, then at what rate would those numbers be increased by applying a "heavy" feeding regimen? is it strain dependent? What else can you do besides heavy feedings to achieve better results? should nutrition be the last variable on which to focus, or the first?

i hope these questions make sense.

I know that you keep saying water only, but weren't you doing foliars all season long?

 

[Shcrews]

Actually, these are all questions I have asked in this forums as well. I asked everybody if the extra fertizer is "worth it". Everybody seemed to agree it was.

ok but how "worth it" is it?

The biggest difference I have found so far, and I plan to do a detailed write up once done, is the trim job. With proper fertilizing, I was able to achieve solid, substantial nugs. When I have my trim crews run through, I will be judging how fast they move. IMO, with the fuller set of flowers, the trim crew will run though the material much faster as well. So instead of growing a 10 x 10, 10 lb monster, I have 7 x7 8 lb monsers. With higher plant numbers, that is a higher gram per ft ratio. Easier to trim, takes up less room in the dry room cause all nugs and no fluff.

we can't grow more plants, so need to focus on maximizing the 30 that we are allowed. my question is still unanswered, how much bigger/better/heavier will a "big plant" get when fed heavily compared to one given only water, assuming all other variables are dialed in?

I would be interested to see concrete quantifiable evidence of the various benefits of heavy feeding , as i am very happy with our results this year using a minimal approach.

I would love to see you personally try feeding the crap out of at least one plant next year. Let me know if you want any help.

Has nobody done the comparison of growing big plants with water only vs. with heavy feed (fertigation, topdress, and foliar), with harvest numbers to show? i would love to try that experiment, any suggestions on how to do it are welcome.

I know that you keep saying water only, but weren't you doing foliars all season long?

weekly AEA holomac/mic foliars for about 3 months yes... but i think that pales in comparison to the amount of feeding that EasyGoing mentioned in the post that i quoted. And i still would like to see somebody quantify the results of heavy feeding in comparison with a no/low-feed approach. It's easy to say "the crop ripens better" or "the trimmers go faster" but if i am already happy with those aspects of my operation then it will take some solid numbers to convince me to switch things up.

 

[jidoka]

Easy....when you get stuff down how about a soil test. I am curious how the balance looks after feeding

 

[EasyGoing]

I am contemplating hiring a couple guys to help finish off the season. Part of that would be turning the soil and getting tests. If it comes down to me doing it, it will be more like Mid Nov/Dec. I have two shows I am preparing for as well, have to get everything trimmed, packaging done, marketing done, ext ext. One man show here.

Long story short, test to come for sure. I also plan on adding 20 lbs gypsum, 10+ lbs bone meal per yard before I plant my winter cover crops. Then wake it all up in the spring with some alfalfa mixed in, maybe 10-20 lbs per yard.

Screws - It's hard to argue with you. You set the bar higher every year. I personally can't quantify the difference, as I have yet to nail it down yet. I hope I am allowed to do this next year as well. What county are you in again? 30 plants is being challenged all over, my county went from 30 anywhere, to 6 indoors........ Get the commercial licence if you can man, I am knee deep if you need help with the process.

 

[jidoka]

 

[jidoka]

Screws...let's face it. A ton of bullshit in this thread including the OP never posting a single soil test, dudes clearly lying about yield, me posting an indo pic to see if I got called out

There is no true openness

But what about oerch's 500 lb pumpkin. I believe soil plus 1 pg fert. No one grows 500 lb mj plants. That proves basically soil + water can get it done.

On the other hand some dude basically quadrupled that with the same genetics. Reckon he might have fed it

And on the third hand...was it a quality pumpkin? Did he fight pest and disease? Was it edible?

Enquiring minds want to know.

I know one thing. Nutrition is the only thing that beats pest and disease. I bet your ca:k and your micros are out of whack. Will I tell you on here...nope. But I will in pm

 

[led05]

Screws...let's face it. A ton of bullshit in this thread including the OP never posting a single soil test, dudes clearly lying about yield, me posting an indo pic to see if I got called out

There is no true openness

But what about oerch's 500 lb pumpkin. I believe soil plus 1 pg fert. No one grows 500 lb mj plants. That proves basically soil + water can get it done.

On the other hand some dude basically quadrupled that with the same genetics. Reckon he might have fed it

And on the third hand...was it a quality pumpkin? Did he fight pest and disease? Was it edible?

Enquiring minds want to know.

I know one thing. Nutrition is the only thing that beats pest and disease. I bet your ca:k and your micros are out of whack. Will I tell you on here...nope. But I will in pm

But I will in PM, just hire me as a consultant.... classic bud...

I'm glad you're finally learning about low k, low mg, high Ca and high P, also it's a weed, it's easy to grow, shrews is right about that, he probably has great soil & weather..

Pumpkin and Cannabis , I enjoy this silly comparison and plant mass weight numbers..., gee, I wonder how many SF , water per day, nutes, soil consumed etc etc a 2000 lb pumpkins plant uses vs say one cannabis plant, oh yeah it's a fkin squash not a cannabis plant ..., silly comparison, for a paid agro consultant your perspective is narrow

You grow a few nice plants in ideal weather others bred, it's really easy dude quit making it sound so hard...

Grow 50 different fruits, veggies herbs etc on same farm and dial, then you'll realize how easy cannabis is and how many plants are exponentially more difficult but all seem to face same issues, too little Ca, P, Mn & B ... too much K, Mg, Fe and N... and too acidic

 

[jidoka]

Cannabis is far easier than peppers for sure.

Never said a word about charging screws a dime. He is real and I am happy to give my opinion to him. Lot of phoney fucks here though...not willing to share with them. But you go right ahead

 

[led05]

Cannabis is far easier than peppers for sure.

Never said a word about charging screws a dime. He is real and I am happy to give my opinion to him. Lot of phones fucks here though...not willing to share with them. But you go right ahead

That's a fair & good point on phonies, also on insect / disease pressures... we certainly agree on that

Or try growing eggplant nearby, no joke, aphids & whiteflies and to a lesser extent mutes and thrips choose them over near anything else, them big fluffy leaves are hard to resist

 

[reppin2c]

Jesus people are going after each other in a personal sense around here. Pretty stupid

My pumpkins where 271 and 390 lb OTT. I forgot the side to side and I was pissed with my weights lol. Had some hard weather the vines have been dead for about 3 weeks so they might have dried out a bit.

Also jidoka hasn't charged me yet for advice or opinions. I may be paying him at some point.

 

[HappyTreeFarm]

Easy....when you get stuff down how about a soil test. I am curious how the balance looks after feeding

I would like to see both Easy and Schrews soil test after this season, with only foliar AEA Im curious what that soil looks like. For me I would rather fertigate than do foliar or top dress. The issue with this has been getting enough Ca through the injection, not sure it’s possible(precipitates)
My guess is hopefully be able to balance the Ca with tilling at season start and fertigate the rest
Foliar a bunch of monsters over and over is an intense amount of work on large scale.

 

[Guest]

Why so many wasted pages on comparing dicks over fucking pumpkins? Compensating? I dont see people lined up to learn how to grow squash. I cut a face in a pumpkin and throw it on the compost pile a few weeks later. Its like having to see commercials on TV about the folks who think we care about them growing beards. Nothing to see or LEARN here.

 

[orechron]

Could’ve been different way to word it, but I think the point is that in the big pumpkin world, 500 (OTT measurement was actually 491) is not big at all and without additional feeding I ended up with a gourd at maybe 1/2-1/4 it’s potential. My cec was 10, I didn’t feed k when there was a visible def, etc. I’m happy with what I got partly because I don’t know what it could’ve been. Analogous to a 7 lb plant that could’ve been 12.

I vote feed, but only if your soil numbers are right and none of the bullshit, heavy nitrate/low mineral bottles. When you say cannabis is easy to grow, sure, it grows in ditches in Russia. To get 3-4 lbs/light indoors withought fungal or insect pressure, keep up with nutrient demands effectively on trees, or pull a crop with the last month of the growing season being rainy and losing less than 1% to mold is not easy.

 

[EasyGoing]

Screws...let's face it. A ton of bullshit in this thread including the OP never posting a single soil test, dudes clearly lying about yield, me posting an indo pic to see if I got called out

There is no true openness

So, this is what I have been saying for years. I seem to be ONE OF THE only people constantly posting up soil tests, and sharing ideas. I seem to get shit on every single time I do. Maybe people wont share, cause ANYTHING anybody says on the internet is hate, wrong, stupid, ext. Me personally, I am sick of it. I wish there was a group of people I could actually share my data with, that are working in the same directions.

Then you get a group of people together in person, and everybody is out to fuck you out of your hard earned money. It's a fucking plague in this industry, and I hope to God I get in the industry, it all evens out, then people can start acting live professionals. Got fucked by a bug "specialist" this year, fucked by city council, fucked by cops, fucked by "irrigation specialist", fucked by neighbors, fucked by my local cannabis activist group. All the while, I give free counseling, hook people up with other pros like the wax man, set people up with trim crews, sit in every city and county meeting, free work on the local church on my street, free labor for road work for our associations, donate to local causes, own a business, pay taxes, own a house........... I am sick of it all. A phrase my parents used to utter, that pissed me off when I was a kid, I now fully understand. "No good deed goes unpunished."

Sorry, rant over!

Gotta get my head back on strait. Rained a half inch last night, guessing I have some work to do today. Hope everybody's harvest is in full gear. Enjoy the fruits of your labor everybody, and be grateful for what you have.

 

[led05]

Could’ve been different way to word it, but I think the point is that in the big pumpkin world, 500 (OTT measurement was actually 491) is not big at all and without additional feeding I ended up with a gourd at maybe 1/2-1/4 it’s potential. My cec was 10, I didn’t feed k when there was a visible def, etc. I’m happy with what I got partly because I don’t know what it could’ve been. Analogous to a 7 lb plant that could’ve been 12.

I vote feed, but only if your soil numbers are right and none of the bullshit, heavy nitrate/low mineral bottles. When you say cannabis is easy to grow, sure, it grows in ditches in Russia. To get 3-4 lbs/light indoors withought fungal or insect pressure, keep up with nutrient demands effectively on trees, or pull a crop with the last month of the growing season being rainy and losing less than 1% to mold is not easy.

There is significant relevance with all plants that are annuals, they mostly want the same things, healthy, living soil with good CEC & PH & correct amounts of macros & micros. Veggies and fruits are useful in this process as it's very easy to see & taste deficiencies in them and generally many of them are harder to grow so are excellent learning tools for cannabis, MHO...

In regards to people going at it, it's not about dick measuring for me, mines the smallest I win, it's about people constantly attacking the threads author who has shared a ton in here, I think it's weak so I sometimes step in...

I also see clearly that the OP has alterior motives (gathering valuable data on others work / expense) but in return he's offered up a ton of knowledge and Agro info, whether he's a master cannabis grower to me is moot, his info shared is spot on relevant to annuals and perennials largely.

 

[led05]

So, this is what I have been saying for years. I seem to be ONE OF THE only people constantly posting up soil tests, and sharing ideas. I seem to get shit on every single time I do. Maybe people wont share, cause ANYTHING anybody says on the internet is hate, wrong, stupid, ext. Me personally, I am sick of it. I wish there was a group of people I could actually share my data with, that are working in the same directions.

Then you get a group of people together in person, and everybody is out to fuck you out of your hard earned money. It's a fucking plague in this industry, and I hope to God I get in the industry, it all evens out, then people can start acting live professionals. Got fucked by a bug "specialist" this year, fucked by city council, fucked by cops, fucked by "irrigation specialist", fucked by neighbors, fucked by my local cannabis activist group. All the while, I give free counseling, hook people up with other pros like the wax man, set people up with trim crews, sit in every city and county meeting, free work on the local church on my street, free labor for road work for our associations, donate to local causes, own a business, pay taxes, own a house........... I am sick of it all. A phrase my parents used to utter, that pissed me off when I was a kid, I now fully understand. "No good deed goes unpunished."

Sorry, rant over!

Gotta get my head back on strait. Rained a half inch last night, guessing I have some work to do today. Hope everybody's harvest is in full gear. Enjoy the fruits of your labor everybody, and be grateful for what you have.

I couldn't agree more with this, the industry disgusts me in its current state, hence why I'm still waiting to jump in!!!

Great post