Slownickel lounge, pull up a chair. CEC interpretation

[Avenger]

take the s off the end of https

wwwDOTfgdproducts.org/LimeStoneForcedOxidation.htm

www.acaa-usa.org/Portals/9/Files/PD...erties_of_FGD_and_Natural_Gypsum_Products.pdf

www.fgdproducts.org/LimeStoneForcedOxidation.htm

 

[reppin2c]

I had to

 

[jidoka]

If the goal is to keep K at somewhat low levels all grow how or even should we add more K in later in flower when that's when the plant wants to use more, but not too much. Unless showing some signs of a def should we even add any more at all? Adding small amounts of P before flower and until last couple weeks makes sense but not a lot at once. Small amounts weekly I surmise. Plus top dress of some gypsum half way in veg and thru first half of flower if I understand.


QUOTE]

This is where it is great to work with someone who has thousands of plants and is willing to let you experiment on them.

What you do is use sap meters. You start out with a mix that has a fuckton of Ca and just enough K to keep bottom and top leaf at equal amounts.

Then you monitor constantly.

In spite of a fuckton you will see only moderate levels of Ca and low levels of K that would make your avg hydro guys head explode.

Then when buds start to set Ca drops. Lots of cell division happening at this point. The perfect time to come in with an amino chelated Ca spray (shameless plug...preferably bought from custom hydro).

Eventually you see Ca start to climb in the sap. Major cell division has stopped at this point...you still need Ca for maintenance but demand drops...you are not building frame or bud structure anymore.

Now you drop your Ca so as not to interfere with K uptake and you can blast the shit out of plant with K, you have set it up to take this abuse.

Alternatively you can get a decent cec soil with real weight...not that sissy fucking lightweight shit...set the numbers right and just let er rip tater chip.

 

[prune]

Well, like I mentioned, everything seems to be finishing so quickly that I'm left somewhat nervous. Here's some below the rim shots of Glue;

https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=74877&pictureid=1791574

and sour Dub, both at 44 days

https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=74877&pictureid=1791576

anyone else getting the oversized proto-calyx's?

https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=74877&pictureid=1791575

 

[~star~crash~]

all this seems like a ton of labor and a ton of $ to feed the crops your guy's methods ... am i way wrong? peace from the un-educated

 

[jidoka]

That is impossible to answer. It is relative to your goal.

If you are growing for profit I would argue this method is hard to beat.

If you are growing for quality I would argue this method is hard to beat

What are you growing for?

 

[~star~crash~]

i grow for both of those reasons

 

[EastBayGrower]

God I love this guy, keep it up slow!!

Thanks for sharing as always... some of us are listening, or trying to...

 

[Guest]

all this seems like a ton of labor and a ton of $ to feed the crops your guy's methods ... am i way wrong? peace from the un-educated

Me personally Im a newer grower with only a few indoor grows under my belt. I just want to give myself the best chance for success. I dont mind spending a little on trying to do that. Living in a non 420 state and having limited space to grow means I need to do my best to give myself the best shot I can at growing a quality stash for myself and wife.

Having said that after this grow and one more in my space, IF I have enough quality stash to get me thru I want to try a grow in just some plain old big box store generic mix and just use tomato tone one grow to see what happens.

My super soil will be sitting in a container amended and letting the worms do their thing during that time frame.

 

[slownickel]

Seems like folks like to make things more complicated than necessary.

The lack of real science in comments like fuckloads of calcium don't help.

There is a very real strategy using Calcium and all the elements.

Always remember though, if you are ever short Ca, you missed the boat.

For those that want a good mix, without crazy numbers, with more P than K and yet low conductivity, I have someone that is about to start offering it.

 

[jidoka]

Slow woo???



Outdoor quality

In coco I am currently using 335 ppm Ca...aka fuckton since traditional bottles are lucky to hit 120

 

[slownickel]

The idea of having a light mix is to REQUIRE water and fertilization nearly every day.

In this way we can run two cycles of fertiization, allowing one to start up in high Ca and P, low K.

Then allowing us to walk K up during veg.

Then allowing us to push K down and Ca back up beginning flower.

And then pushing K back up finishing flowering.

There is no other way to get Ca high in the plant.

Jidoka, thanks for demonstrating this to everyone.

 

[jackspratt61]

The idea of having a light mix is to REQUIRE water and fertilization nearly every day.

In this way we can run two cycles of fertiization, allowing one to start up in high Ca and P, low K.

Then allowing us to walk K up during veg.

Then allowing us to push K down and Ca back up beginning flower.

And then pushing K back up finishing flowering.

There is no other way to get Ca high in the plant.

Jidoka, thanks for demonstrating this to everyone.

How easily can this method be followed organically with a light mix?

 

[slownickel]

Jack,

The only way to run a mix like I am discussing organically, is to build it up with enough organic P PRIOR to planting. Trying to catch up with liguid bone meal works, but is expensive and large quantities are often needed.

This is why it is so critical to have a real set of numbers, make a real plan, work the plan and then check your analysis from time to time to see if you are getting where you want to go.

 

[jidoka]

To me the way to go is Ca and P in the soil. Then it comes down to Cec. If you have it 300 lbs per acre mg and k will do the job all the way. If you don't, spray it so as not to mess with your soil. But always keep at least a 10:1 ratio ca to both k and mg till money time, then bring the k

 

[reppin2c]

Here's a dilemma before I make my order...organic P or TSP? I'm really leaning towards syn. But I could kill 1.5 birds with one stone. A really expensive stone

 

[Limeygreen]

What type of organic P would you be looking at? Different sources release P at different rates, micronized will be faster in general but rock dusts tend to be a long haul type of P with some available right away but more coming out over time, guano and fish bone meal are faster as is bovine bone meal.

 

[growingcrazy]

325 ppm of Ca.. Could you give a breakdown on your inputs? I know....

I have been matching Ca and P numbers in my nutrient mix, 250ppm or so. Mainly from gypsum and the small bit in fish hydrolysate and occasionally some milk. ~2EC total mix is what the base runs at... K running from 150 to as high as 300 ppm in bloom...

Just need a nod if I am on the correct path or if I should try again.

 

[jidoka]

CaNO3 is a more workable than fish. 3 grams provides 150 ppm ca and 123 n. I do not find gypsum to be soluble enough to use fish

Pekacid provides a better p:k ratio in veg and then mkp for the final push. But when you lower k in veg (playing with 35 to 70 ppm) and pH it becomes much easier to get P in the plant.

You will also find the plant starts metabolizing faster and mn, Zn and cu demand goes up. Mn actually regulates k uptake to an extent

 

[growingcrazy]

CaNO3 is a more workable than fish. 3 grams provides 150 ppm ca and 123 n. I do not find gypsum to be soluble enough to use fish

Pekacid provides a better p:k ratio in veg and then mkp for the final push. But when you lower k in veg (playing with 35 to 70 ppm) and pH it becomes much easier to get P in the plant.

You will also find the plant starts metabolizing faster and mn, Zn and cu demand goes up. Mn actually regulates k uptake to an extent

Organics my man...

I would be all over this shit if I were able to run salts...

Your the man Jidoka... Your alright to Slow...