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Size does matter!
- Thread starter chef
- Start date
J
jrosek
lol... aint that rite chef! haha... always was a great thread with adults!
Peter.. veg nutes will work fine. be gentle if you have already switched to flower nutes.
i made it a practice to run the veg feed until day 20 or so just for that purpose. something to consider...
here is a couple pics from one of my jedi's 1k beds. these were stripped heavily at day 8 and by day 11 they blew up! if you take the time to learn the practice it will yield you like no other system! peace all... J
couple others of thers in a tightbed at 35 days flower. due for the second strip in a few...
Peter.. veg nutes will work fine. be gentle if you have already switched to flower nutes.
i made it a practice to run the veg feed until day 20 or so just for that purpose. something to consider...
here is a couple pics from one of my jedi's 1k beds. these were stripped heavily at day 8 and by day 11 they blew up! if you take the time to learn the practice it will yield you like no other system! peace all... J
couple others of thers in a tightbed at 35 days flower. due for the second strip in a few...
peterjoseph88
Member
J
jrosek
well pete. you went full steam on your first time huh? haha
for future reference....
you should leave at least the top 2 large fans to help new growth. any fans that are not blocking nodes can be kept. you did not need such a major strip, however im sure they will be fine as long as you take proper care of them.
you will notice the feed consumption go down considerably for the next few days, of course this is because the large fans that were using the nutes are gone. they will be back to normal in a few days and the growth will explode. monitor your nutes closely until you get your strain dialed in perfectly.
good luck to you man! J
for future reference....
you should leave at least the top 2 large fans to help new growth. any fans that are not blocking nodes can be kept. you did not need such a major strip, however im sure they will be fine as long as you take proper care of them.
you will notice the feed consumption go down considerably for the next few days, of course this is because the large fans that were using the nutes are gone. they will be back to normal in a few days and the growth will explode. monitor your nutes closely until you get your strain dialed in perfectly.
good luck to you man! J
peterjoseph88
Member
Lol oops.well all in the name of science I suppose, well see how it goes. The blue dream I plucked 2 nights ago is looking like it responded well, I just finished up my last grow and it was 193.3 grams so if I can get close or possibly more than that I would be extactic. I'm using a 400watt hps by the way
J
jrosek
193 is respectable man!
are you limited on numbers? can you do more plants in there?
reason i ask is with a 400 the light penetration falls off quick and its better to run a higher number shorter plants. just 2 cents there man... im greedy though!
now that you have stripped them you can plainly see all the empty growing space that should be packed with bud sites. couple options there. a sog or a scrog. i prefer sog for the quick turn around however if you can veg for a bit scrog is an excellent option for lower plant count.
are you limited on numbers? can you do more plants in there?
reason i ask is with a 400 the light penetration falls off quick and its better to run a higher number shorter plants. just 2 cents there man... im greedy though!
now that you have stripped them you can plainly see all the empty growing space that should be packed with bud sites. couple options there. a sog or a scrog. i prefer sog for the quick turn around however if you can veg for a bit scrog is an excellent option for lower plant count.
peterjoseph88
Member
Hey thanks man...No I can do as many as can fit...I wanted to do sog and started with some purple kushs that grew very bushy,and then someone needed a home for 2 1 foot blue dreams so I took them in along with 2 more purple kush mothers.things got out of hand so I lsted the shit outta the blue dreams to make the canopy even and then had some problems with pm... anyway my point is I am just trying to get through the rest of this grow without it being a total loss.but any ideas on how to make my space more efficient for next round would be greatly appreciated, the space is only 19"x23"x58" .. thanks in advance =)
J
jrosek
I hear you man.. run what you brung!
the pics above will give you a good idea of what to do, just on a smaller scale. in a sog it is better to run 1 strain. get some air movement and transfer in there man, pm is a mafucker to get rid of once you have it! after this grow, or if you can remove the plants for a day... take the area down and spray it with bleach water... no more pm!
with a 400, i would do a short kush type plant. fully rooted clone directly to flower. idealy you want a 12-14" tall plant and a ton of em. figure every 5-6" spacing. a good 400 with a proper hood will cover a 36"x30" well. any more than that is not very usable in a sog.
I recommend a mini sunsoaker hood from htgsupply. rocks bro!
the pics above will give you a good idea of what to do, just on a smaller scale. in a sog it is better to run 1 strain. get some air movement and transfer in there man, pm is a mafucker to get rid of once you have it! after this grow, or if you can remove the plants for a day... take the area down and spray it with bleach water... no more pm!
with a 400, i would do a short kush type plant. fully rooted clone directly to flower. idealy you want a 12-14" tall plant and a ton of em. figure every 5-6" spacing. a good 400 with a proper hood will cover a 36"x30" well. any more than that is not very usable in a sog.
I recommend a mini sunsoaker hood from htgsupply. rocks bro!
peterjoseph88
Member
Cool thanks man ill look into it... when I get clones from a dispensary and they are in those 2x2 cubes with roots sickin out is that rooted enough to switch over right away? Or should it fill out a dixie cup first? Also would doing a small bed instead of pots be more beneficial?
max_well
Member
big.ups to jrosek
big.ups to jrosek
great thread.
Jrosek, you are a star! thanks to you for sharing such well documented details of your style, very well thought out. I'm wondering if you can update on some aspects of your technique.
1) In earlier posts you mention a leaf-strip at day ~20 and again at ~45. Have you altered the timing of these de-leafings now that you are running more plants in beds?-- says the plants shown in your young Jedi's setup were stripped at day 8.
2) Have you found more favorable results with the 0 veg time / higher plant count in beds as opposed to the 1 gallon buckets? Did you come close to your goals with the 2 X 1000 watt over 5' X 10' bed?
3) I see some runs of PVC in the beds above-- is this your watering system? do you autowater with a very defined volume? I remember you stated somewhere ~20 oz. per plant, every other day in the beds (with no watering for the first 4 days of flower), and that you use 288 cuts per 2000watts of lighting, so this would be ~45 gallons in the 5' * 10' bed everyother day, with no runoff?-- seems like a lot. maybe I misunderstood.
4) Do you ever have trouble with plant support in your 2/3 perlite to 1/3 vermiculite blend? I know you mentioned have the plants started in a soil blend help for support sake-- do you use sunshine #4? is this the medium that you start clones in, or do you use rooter/cubes?
5) and last questions: do you use co2? and what nutes do you currently prefer with the beds? and good additives beside the fish emulsion / high N foliar to lessen the shock of strip?
thanks so much, great inspiration here.
big.ups to jrosek
great thread.
Jrosek, you are a star! thanks to you for sharing such well documented details of your style, very well thought out. I'm wondering if you can update on some aspects of your technique.
1) In earlier posts you mention a leaf-strip at day ~20 and again at ~45. Have you altered the timing of these de-leafings now that you are running more plants in beds?-- says the plants shown in your young Jedi's setup were stripped at day 8.
2) Have you found more favorable results with the 0 veg time / higher plant count in beds as opposed to the 1 gallon buckets? Did you come close to your goals with the 2 X 1000 watt over 5' X 10' bed?
3) I see some runs of PVC in the beds above-- is this your watering system? do you autowater with a very defined volume? I remember you stated somewhere ~20 oz. per plant, every other day in the beds (with no watering for the first 4 days of flower), and that you use 288 cuts per 2000watts of lighting, so this would be ~45 gallons in the 5' * 10' bed everyother day, with no runoff?-- seems like a lot. maybe I misunderstood.
4) Do you ever have trouble with plant support in your 2/3 perlite to 1/3 vermiculite blend? I know you mentioned have the plants started in a soil blend help for support sake-- do you use sunshine #4? is this the medium that you start clones in, or do you use rooter/cubes?
5) and last questions: do you use co2? and what nutes do you currently prefer with the beds? and good additives beside the fish emulsion / high N foliar to lessen the shock of strip?
thanks so much, great inspiration here.
J
jrosek
oh boy... better get a coffee for this one! haha
lets see.. first, every strain and every system are different and require different maintenance. the old pics from the beginning of this thread are from what we used to call the test room.. that is where we dialed in new strains and techniques etc...
there is no set times to strip a plant, that particular strain and system required the 21/45 day stripping, that is what worked best for those.
Now in beds, (which have always been my choice of growing) the timing will be dictated by plant count, lumens, medium and most importantly strain.
With the above mentioned strain, the early strip is needed to help control stretch and encourage proper growth of the strain. which that one is a 50/50 sativa/indica. however there are other factors involved. the tight spacing ( 6" ) and perlite, which make them stretch more than they normally would in say soil. When using perlite we found that vermiculite was a waste of time and materials. if you keep the plant at a reasonable height and strong stem the plant will be fine in perlite. it is important to keep the medium moist. letting them dry out is when you run into problems such as falling over ect...
Again veg time depends on your system. there is no correct answer there. however i have found for best results in my system some veg time gives better over all structure and health. you must spend the time to dial your system in. careful planning and attention to whats going on in your grow will ultimately give you total control. there is just not enough time to try and explain all my experiences with this system. all i can do is try and guide you in the right direction and hope you can figure it out from there.
As far as rooting medium is concerned. you can transplant just about anything into perlite with great success... we have used just about everything too! lol
For an example, in the system above... he uses 16oz beer cups of perlite to root and veg.
the cuts are prepared and directly inserted into the perlite with an immediate feed of 1.0 -1.2 ec and a ph of 5.8. no rooting compound is needed. they root in 7 days and veg for 7 days for a total of 14 days from cutting to flowering. they are vegged under t5's or t8's with as much light as possible, this promotes a bushy plant and keeps them at 6-7" maximum height for transplant. this is perfectly balanced for a 2 week perpetual grow with 4- 1k's. every 2 weeks a table goes in and a table comes out. following me here? lol
those tables are 4' x 5' and 7" deep. they are on an automated top feed system designed by me. each table uses a 50 gallon res and feeds once every 24hrs to exchange roughly 40 gallons in a few minutes.
We realy like the GH flora nova series. extremely great results. we also use big bud and kool bloom ( liquid ) as additives for flowering. not much, just enough to give the strain what it needs. with this perlite system and flora nova series no ph adjusting is needed as long as you properly maintain your res. You must dump and fill your res every 10 days with this system for best results. trust me... huge benefits from fresh res's.
I have found that Co2 is not needed. i have used it in totally sealed rooms whichis a must. however if you provide good air exchange and air flow in your roomCo2 is NOT needed.
If i were to get back into growing again.. my choice would be automated beds with hydroton. that is my preferred method and had best results with it... but thats another story.........
your very welcome bro.. hope this helps you!
Peace, J
lets see.. first, every strain and every system are different and require different maintenance. the old pics from the beginning of this thread are from what we used to call the test room.. that is where we dialed in new strains and techniques etc...
there is no set times to strip a plant, that particular strain and system required the 21/45 day stripping, that is what worked best for those.
Now in beds, (which have always been my choice of growing) the timing will be dictated by plant count, lumens, medium and most importantly strain.
With the above mentioned strain, the early strip is needed to help control stretch and encourage proper growth of the strain. which that one is a 50/50 sativa/indica. however there are other factors involved. the tight spacing ( 6" ) and perlite, which make them stretch more than they normally would in say soil. When using perlite we found that vermiculite was a waste of time and materials. if you keep the plant at a reasonable height and strong stem the plant will be fine in perlite. it is important to keep the medium moist. letting them dry out is when you run into problems such as falling over ect...
Again veg time depends on your system. there is no correct answer there. however i have found for best results in my system some veg time gives better over all structure and health. you must spend the time to dial your system in. careful planning and attention to whats going on in your grow will ultimately give you total control. there is just not enough time to try and explain all my experiences with this system. all i can do is try and guide you in the right direction and hope you can figure it out from there.
As far as rooting medium is concerned. you can transplant just about anything into perlite with great success... we have used just about everything too! lol
For an example, in the system above... he uses 16oz beer cups of perlite to root and veg.
the cuts are prepared and directly inserted into the perlite with an immediate feed of 1.0 -1.2 ec and a ph of 5.8. no rooting compound is needed. they root in 7 days and veg for 7 days for a total of 14 days from cutting to flowering. they are vegged under t5's or t8's with as much light as possible, this promotes a bushy plant and keeps them at 6-7" maximum height for transplant. this is perfectly balanced for a 2 week perpetual grow with 4- 1k's. every 2 weeks a table goes in and a table comes out. following me here? lol
those tables are 4' x 5' and 7" deep. they are on an automated top feed system designed by me. each table uses a 50 gallon res and feeds once every 24hrs to exchange roughly 40 gallons in a few minutes.
We realy like the GH flora nova series. extremely great results. we also use big bud and kool bloom ( liquid ) as additives for flowering. not much, just enough to give the strain what it needs. with this perlite system and flora nova series no ph adjusting is needed as long as you properly maintain your res. You must dump and fill your res every 10 days with this system for best results. trust me... huge benefits from fresh res's.
I have found that Co2 is not needed. i have used it in totally sealed rooms whichis a must. however if you provide good air exchange and air flow in your roomCo2 is NOT needed.
If i were to get back into growing again.. my choice would be automated beds with hydroton. that is my preferred method and had best results with it... but thats another story.........
your very welcome bro.. hope this helps you!
Peace, J
J
jrosek
Peter.. I would not put them directly into flower from the dispensary. give them a day or 2 to adjust to your feed and system. then put them in. I would put them in trays with your medium of your choice to let them adjust.
dispensary huh? lemme give you my shopping list! haha J/K
peterjoseph88
Member
Alright thanks jro. I've been checking back here for a responce for the last 2 days and I didn't even realize there was a page 23. Lol well anyway since my deleafing they seem to have all recovered very wll and the blue dreams seem to be loving all the extra light on the lower nodes.ill snap some pics for an update hopefully tonight ,thanks again!
Edit:it wouldn't let me upload my photos..I'm not sure why..
I added some pictures in my gallery..feel free to stop by and see how they are recovering from the pluck, the blue dream is stretching like crazy. Anyway I've been thinking of using coco next round with some type of drip system and just fit as many as I can for a sog.do you think 4.5 inch square pots would be ok?
Edit:it wouldn't let me upload my photos..I'm not sure why..
I added some pictures in my gallery..feel free to stop by and see how they are recovering from the pluck, the blue dream is stretching like crazy. Anyway I've been thinking of using coco next round with some type of drip system and just fit as many as I can for a sog.do you think 4.5 inch square pots would be ok?
vin marioni
Member
im thinking this type of system but vertical circular stadium would out yeild it by sheer useable floor space alone.
J
jrosek
it doesn't bro.. been there done that.
vin marioni
Member
vertical didnt work for u?
your actually like dr budd greenz from the micro section. he spoke of hi plant number n yeiding multiple pounds of even a 400 back in the day, i think your method is for those who like to throw caution to the wind
your actually like dr budd greenz from the micro section. he spoke of hi plant number n yeiding multiple pounds of even a 400 back in the day, i think your method is for those who like to throw caution to the wind
T
Teeg420
I disagree a true vert sog will wins hand down. Plus you would be able to cram way more gardening space in a 10x12 room with a vertical garden than a traditional horizontal garden. Just my 2 cents.
In order to stay legal I prefer the less plants but bigger, just throw more wattage up to compensate.
Sorry no pics, used to run a coliseum. Look at heath robinson and his vert sogs.
Edit: The best method of gardening is the one that works for you!
vin marioni
Member
I AGREE CHEFF, SAVE THE ''OPINON'' ONLY STUFF. THIS THREAD IS FULL OF THIS TYPE OF B.S. NOBODYS COMMENTING ON THINGS THEVE NEVER DONE BEFORE, NOT SAYING THAT JROSEK IS ONE OF THEESE, BUT VERTICAL CIRCULA LEAVES PLANTS PRE SCROGGED WITHS SO MUCH MORE BUDD SITES OPENED UP, ITS A NO BRAINER WHEN U TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE EXTRA SQAURE FOOTAGE PLUS THIS. BUT AGAIN ITS A NUMBERS GAME, NOBODY WANTS TO GO OVER 99 PLANTS. ATLEAST NOT MOST.
J
jrosek
Im sorry man... I disagree 100%
I ran 4-1k verts with stadiums, custom made this and that with 100's of plants... the only ones that where worth the weight were the middle rows, which was half the plants! lol.. they did ok, however nothing compared to what my 5x5 tables did.
my tables with flat SOG out perform verts by at least 30% of nothing but the finest nugs grown.. fully developed rock hard nuggets... no fluff anywhere.
I have only seen one other person pull off big numbers in a vert and thats heath Robinson. im not talking 2lbs per 1k, im talking 3lbs per 600. unfortunately there is only one heath Robinson! lol
The simplicity, even growth and control of a properly done flat SOG is the only way to get seriously paid... all else is futile! lol
