zeke99
Active member
Thank you for sharing this wonderfully informative thread.
It's a shame to see the nerds, idiots and haters interjecting with their bullshit.
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Side by side grow. 630 CMH vs 1000HPS
- Thread starter issack
- Start date
Thank you for sharing this wonderfully informative thread.
It's a shame to see the nerds, idiots and haters interjecting with their bullshit.
Hey SG!
Without rereading the entire thread what is your opinion on the cmh vs the hps?
Best,
LT
DF, I concur and recently Kevin Jodrey noted that many noted Old School growers are reverting back to old tech from Gavitas and CMH to SE HPS because the end results are just not the same.
KJ believes that depending on how the specific varietal was bred or kept over generations will affect its overall growth. Most were held under Hortilux HPS SE some under SonTAgro MH others FLOS.
DE's are more expensive if you run large plants in a high yield vertical setup. The only thing in her statement that I agree with is that light angle changes through the day OD. Hence ID vertical lighting gets more results. Angle is more supported with vertical hanging bulbs and more penetration into larger plant canopy. Horizontal hoods don't provide this and I tossed mine a decade ago. DE Hanging bulbs require an expensive fixture and more expensive ballast from initial look.
Check out Remo's 50 flip with bubble man. New is not usually better as it is untested. Sales people love to sell you new shit to make a buck.
They say Horti's only last 6 months and I laugh as they last years 10,000 hours or more. How many have you had burn out? Sure efficiency goes down over time but they say DE's only last 2 years and are more expensive.....I am still not sold on DE tech.
LT
Slightly off topic, but the new tech digital controllers are really nice imo.
Having the ability to dim the lights on fresh transplants, and slowly ramp them up watching the plants respond is great. Use to always get at least some amount of lumen shock with the older lamps going from a veg room to a blaring flower room.
The temperature dimming, and shut off features are also handy. I have seen product from rooms that had a temperature malfunction before, enough heat in late flower and the whole run can be scrapped. The new controllers are a nice fail safe to prevent that. Also they make wiring rooms a breeze.
I think KJ, has a wealth of knowledge. Always gain something from listening to him, or at the least find comfort that he has the same theories.
I do think certain cultivars will perform better under certain conditions, including light intensity, and spectrum. Good proof lies in, outdoor vs indoor, and early finishing outdoor vs late finishing outdoor. Some cultivars do well in low light they grow dense flowers regardless, others need tons of light to grow a solid flower.
Many other variables of why one cultivar performs well in one environment and another not so much. Tailoring your environment to a cultivar is one approach, while another would be to tailor your cultivar. As in, pop enough seeds in your current environment, clone the cultivars that strive. Further would be to breed with them, but even popping and cloning, should be able to find phenos that do well in your lighting/environment.
Mr^^
Having the ability to dim the lights on fresh transplants, and slowly ramp them up watching the plants respond is great. Use to always get at least some amount of lumen shock with the older lamps going from a veg room to a blaring flower room.
The temperature dimming, and shut off features are also handy. I have seen product from rooms that had a temperature malfunction before, enough heat in late flower and the whole run can be scrapped. The new controllers are a nice fail safe to prevent that. Also they make wiring rooms a breeze.
I think KJ, has a wealth of knowledge. Always gain something from listening to him, or at the least find comfort that he has the same theories.
I do think certain cultivars will perform better under certain conditions, including light intensity, and spectrum. Good proof lies in, outdoor vs indoor, and early finishing outdoor vs late finishing outdoor. Some cultivars do well in low light they grow dense flowers regardless, others need tons of light to grow a solid flower.
Many other variables of why one cultivar performs well in one environment and another not so much. Tailoring your environment to a cultivar is one approach, while another would be to tailor your cultivar. As in, pop enough seeds in your current environment, clone the cultivars that strive. Further would be to breed with them, but even popping and cloning, should be able to find phenos that do well in your lighting/environment.
Mr^^
Ibechillin
Masochist Educator
Epigenetic change, environment affects expression from same Genotype (DNA)...Clones from same mother in different environments/grow styles can express differently.
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If most people are pulling 1000 watt yields with 630s. You need to plug the numbers in. What yields do you get, what do you charge for herbs and how much does electricity cost.
Biologist
Active member
Lots of variables to figure this out, but I will simplify it by calculating the cost for just running a 12/12 flower room for a year and do some back of the napkin math. Issack got roughly the same yield from both sides, I think ~9 pounds for HPS and 9.5 pounds for CMH if I remember correctly.
Let's say you have 16 1k HPS lights. 11 cents per KWH electricity. 12 hours per day for a year = $7,714/yr
CMH = $4,859/yr
In a year you will save $2,855 in electricity costs.
https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/electric/electricity-calculator.html
I don't know how much people are paying for CMH lights so I'll just use $380 for the cheap CMH kit from GrowAce.
16 lights X $380 = $6,080 for an all new setup to replace someone's existing lights, which they already have.
So maybe about two years in electricity cost savings to pay off your investment? I am not calculating energy savings from not needing more AC (in winter you may have to use the heater more also if you use the HPS heat to partially warm your facility), because it is too complex for me to calculate.
Let's say you have 16 1k HPS lights. 11 cents per KWH electricity. 12 hours per day for a year = $7,714/yr
CMH = $4,859/yr
In a year you will save $2,855 in electricity costs.
https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/electric/electricity-calculator.html
I don't know how much people are paying for CMH lights so I'll just use $380 for the cheap CMH kit from GrowAce.
16 lights X $380 = $6,080 for an all new setup to replace someone's existing lights, which they already have.
So maybe about two years in electricity cost savings to pay off your investment? I am not calculating energy savings from not needing more AC (in winter you may have to use the heater more also if you use the HPS heat to partially warm your facility), because it is too complex for me to calculate.
Ibechillin
Masochist Educator
Issack yields:
4000w HPS yield = 8.9375lb or 4057.625g
1.01440625 gram per watt.
2520w CMH yield = 10.46875lb or 4752.8125g
1.8860367063 gram per watt.
Almost double the yield per watt of power used from CMH!
The Philips Elite Agro 315W T12 Ceramic Metal Halide Lamp 3100k bulb (best cmh bulb) issack used is rated to maintain 85% Intensity for 20,000hrs, about 4 times the lifespan of HPS/MH as well saving $ on bulb replacements.
DTOG ordered a dual 315w cmh fixture and ballast setup off ebay recently for $180 before the bulbs, as mentioned the bulbs can be found for ~$59 totalling ~$298 for the setup.
4000w HPS yield = 8.9375lb or 4057.625g
1.01440625 gram per watt.
2520w CMH yield = 10.46875lb or 4752.8125g
1.8860367063 gram per watt.
Almost double the yield per watt of power used from CMH!
The Philips Elite Agro 315W T12 Ceramic Metal Halide Lamp 3100k bulb (best cmh bulb) issack used is rated to maintain 85% Intensity for 20,000hrs, about 4 times the lifespan of HPS/MH as well saving $ on bulb replacements.
DTOG ordered a dual 315w cmh fixture and ballast setup off ebay recently for $180 before the bulbs, as mentioned the bulbs can be found for ~$59 totalling ~$298 for the setup.
2 years goes by quick and short time to even up...the quality of the product is better so it makes it a game changer for sure.
SmokinOkie
New member
Big thank you to issack for taking the time to post such valuable information. I have been reading for 2 weeks on which way to go with lighting our new grow. We are attempting a pretty big RDWC. Thanks man.
630 DE CMH are $270 from ceramic solutions, ads in the banners here.
Get your money back faster and more light than 2-315's....
FrozenFire
Member
I'll second ceramic solutions. I've been running their 630w bulbs and ballasts for sneaking up on 2 years now with no issues. I've also seen the heaviest harvests with those setups vs anything else I've used. Just pulled down a 2.55 pound harvest off of a 4 plant multistrain grow under a 630w bulb ran at 700w (1.65gpw). These lights are legit. The customer service is second to none as well.
NzGreenWhanau
Active member
I wish we could but them for that here
I wish we could but them for that here
If I convert the price to u.s.d the price is about $570. I suppose thats what happens when your so far from the rest of the world. Lol
I wish we could but them for that here
If I convert the price to u.s.d the price is about $570. I suppose thats what happens when your so far from the rest of the world. Lol
Attachments
CannaRed
Cannabinerd
I was wondering about that.
Sorry to OP and this will be my only comment on the subject.
Dirt Bag, please be sure to support your points. You keep bashing DE but when I PMed you to offer you a free light so you could see for yourself, you made it clear that you had zero first hand experience and werent interested in actually comparing 2x 315 vs DE. you are spreading false information based on your speculation and opinion (which was formed without actually trying the product) and representing this as fact.
Dirt Bag, please be sure to support your points. You keep bashing DE but when I PMed you to offer you a free light so you could see for yourself, you made it clear that you had zero first hand experience and werent interested in actually comparing 2x 315 vs DE. you are spreading false information based on your speculation and opinion (which was formed without actually trying the product) and representing this as fact.
CannaRed
Cannabinerd
I'll test it for ya. Time to upgrade anyway.
