Side by side grow. 630 CMH vs 1000HPS

[King Rat]

Hey King Rat! If you read my previous post (in this thread) you'll see that I've mentioned HPS is needed to produce the harvest weight then finish the last 20 days with MH blue. MH Blue is closer to the natural sun spectrum and will produce better quality than the CMH. You need more red for flowering to produce weight.
If you want to go all natural sun spectrum produces best quality? Why no love for MH Blue?

yo heather
i read through that whole thread and saw you mentioned it more than one time. I've flowered the whole time under HPS lightning using Philips Greenpower HPS bulbs, i've seen the spec sheets of CMH Agro bulbs and i'm confident that color and umols are more important than plain lumen output.

The red spectrum produced by HPS with a color temperature of around 2000K (2100K on Philips Greenpower) is due to technically reasons and not because they intended to be that red to be used to flower. It was just the compromise of having the best effiency in terms of electricity/light output that is usable to horticulture.

Now with the development of the CMH Agro bulb you can have a better color spectrum with an even better umol/PPF output per watt than HPS produced. The 3100K CMH still has plenty of the red spectrum to produce weight.

BUT i have to admit, i've just ordered my CMH kits yesterday and never tried them out in real life before by myself. Taking out the guesswork and theoretically talk about data sheets i'm doing right now.
maybe i'm sharing your opinion in about a year, maybe you try cmh one more time and putting them closer to the canopy as you did before. We'll see.

king- that's interesting as others have also said that 1 315 is the equal of a 600watter -
i'm running '2' 315's in a 4x3.5' tent , and last grow i thought that the light was 'lacking' - in another thread another poster commented that a 315 is closer to a 400 then a 600 - bit confusing to be sure - this go around i've added '2' 300w led's (el-cheapo's) , one on both sides of the tent- i'll see the outcome of the added light in the weeks upcoming..

nah i was just comparing the 315W with that Hortilux MH bulbs from that link that heather posted. plain by the specs the 315W are more closer to the 400watters HPS, but think about putting 2* 315watts of CMH in that tent which can be compared to 400ers each, is like 800W of HPS for just 30W more than a 600watter, improvement of about 30% for the same electricity consumption.

i guess they "seem" to be lacking light is because the 2*315W CMH's produces around 72000 lumens visible for the human eye together and the 600W HPS produces about 88000 lumens visible. Has nothing to do with the PPF value that CMH produces and is usable by the plants we grow. Did you lacking harvest weight and bag appeal of your buds?

some were producing the same harvest weight with 315W CMH they had with 600W. i think they were comparing the results they got with that 315ers rather than the specs and visible appearance.

 

[Dirt Bag]

If you want to keep going down the rabbit hole of full rainbow all the time is best for plants! Care to explain how the change in season, earths axis moves; causes change in light spectrums as light passes through the atmosphere at different angles. Seasons(forget about these)is the most natural way of light plants have evolved to your'e talking about, or is it the full rainbow dump 365?

Psst, the world is round. A large portion of it doesn't experience "seasons".

 

[dank.frank]

EyeHortilux MH Blue; check it out.

CRI of 92. Sorry. You're not correct.



dank.Frank

 

[Scrappy-doo]

The reflector makes a huge difference as well. I've seen another grower's room that had a 315 with an adjustawing reflector that was producing about half what I get with my hoods. Was easy to see the tent canopy was getting much less light than my room. I was pulling a pound and change from a single 315 in my closet.

 

[heatherlonglee]

CRI is for retail applications so you can see your pink pajamas nice and clear.

Check the spectrum of MH Blue to the sun then compare CMH to the sun.

The earth is on a axis some parts even the middle are hit at different angles, not to mention that some times sun is closer to earth and sometime it's farmer away as we rotate around space. To just act like this means nothing to plants and the full 24/7 365 rainbow dumps is best is CMH fanboy misinformation.

 

[dank.frank]

I've not got a flower run under CMH yet. I've certainly run HPS, double ended, mixed spectrum during flower, rotating bulbs in and out for certain weeks, etc. I've done all that mess and none of it really made a big enough difference to justify keeping around a dozen extra bulbs to swap in and out.

I'll be 100% objective when I get the first round of flower under the CMH lamps. I've been wrong before, it wouldn't be the first time. I have no reason to put on a front and promote something that doesn't work. At the same time, my metric is quality. My metric is cannabinoid output. Nothing else. That being the case, we may never agree.

I will say this much though. You tossing around your little trigger words and belittling people with repetitive comments like we are all retarded and only you can possibly manage to understand the science of lighting, is a bit off putting and absurd. Have you ever stopped to consider, perhaps we've done the exact same research you have and came to a different conclusion?

I know this will fall on deaf ears and that is fine. I'll let my flowers do the talking when they are done. Good or bad. Life is a lesson learned.



dank.Frank

 

[heatherlonglee]

Reasons people get blown up by Heather Longlee

The BEST spectrum is the one provided by the sun and the best bulbs are going to replicate that. To say otherwise is to assume that some how nature is wrong in all it's mechanisms and plants have been just hanging by a thread in the lousy pathetic spectrum of the sun.
CMH...VERY closely replicate natural light. No other bulb comes close.

In the above quote dude states that MH Blue doesn't exist; also seems to have never actually been on earth and seen or heard of the repetitive seasons that happen over and over again?
1. Yes! I take offense to that kind of foolishness
I hated science even turned desk away from teacher, I regret that; though I still remember seasons and rotational angles, distance and that the light changes (even visually) and all that 7th grader stuff.

CRI of 92. Sorry. You're not correct.

In the above quote dude for the second time in this thread repeats the CRI score of a bulb without having the common decency to google for a moment and find out what it means?
2. Yes! I take offense to this silliness/laziness

Never even used the CMH before using metrics you don't know the meaning of isn't cool.

 

[King Rat]

I dunno where this is going heather LOL

who was talking about using 6500K? I havent seen that post.

when talking about axis, rotation angle and distances i'm stating this:
In midsummer the earth gets a color temperature of about 5400K and drops at autumn to about 5000K, roughly. Also it depends on where you live.

So why are you recommending HPS for flowersetting and MH Blue for the 3 finishing weeks when nature works just the opposite in terms of colorspectrum shift?
It would make much more sense to start with MH and then HPS for the last 3 weeks to make it even more natural.

But color spectrum is not my whole point, its the combination of benefits the CMH can give. The spectrum of CMH IS better than HPS with its technically locked 2000K and it puts out a better PAR/PPF value for the same amount of electricity by using 2 sources of light at the same time (2*315 vs 600W HPS).

So why the hate?

The reflector makes a huge difference as well. I've seen another grower's room that had a 315 with an adjustawing reflector that was producing about half what I get with my hoods. Was easy to see the tent canopy was getting much less light than my room. I was pulling a pound and change from a single 315 in my closet.

I am about to use the CMH with my Adjust-A-Wing reflectors. i'm planning on using the most narrow setting of the wings

 

[heatherlonglee]

The point about the axis, seasons, distance (sounds like I'll need to remind about different elevations on earth) is that plants spectrum was meant to be tailored for different times in the life cycle. Now as I've already stated the best available now and more specifically better than CMH is HPS/MH Blue. In the near future as again I've already stated/implied is that soon a new way to tailor the spectrum will take over. I've said flower with HPS then finish last 20 days of flowering with MH blue is better than CMH. I never said that HPS or MH Blue will be the best ever, forever. If you want me to keep repeating myself even tough some feel this implies their ignorance. It's the UV/Blue that's better in the MH Blue. Something better will definitely come, but this MH Blue from Hortilux has been around for a long time. My granny had better tools in her day, if used correctly; compared to running only CMH (single bulb took growing knowledge steps back) is what really gets me going. Fanboy misnomers have gotten the CMH full rainbow dump to much hype.

Lets keep going down the rabbit hole! Yes I do believe that a full rainbow of colors is best for plants. This artificial rainbow can be manipulated. The current best way and more specifically, better than CMH is to flower with HPS, then finish last 20 days of flower with Hortilux MH Blue.

 

[useless.gardens]

alright, i have a bias towards women. im not gonna lie. most of you, but not all of you, imo, are not worth a grain of salt. rather have a goat at my house... at least a goat produces milk.

nevertheless, my bias aside, your argument about the natural sun light, axis of the planet , and all this other bullshit has no bearing on cannabis -unless you are talking about landrace strains.

fact, cannabis is THE ONLY plant specie that has evolved such an extensive gene pool indoor, at the hand of humans, under artificial light. again, the huge cornucopia of strains out there & the vast majority are (& have been) breed & cultivated indoor (for many many decades).

also, there is a ton of empirical evidence that CMH makes beautiful flowers, flavorful flowers, and quality flowers. i know from experience. other growers know from experience. in fact, if you check out the LED section, a light type i dont like but have tried for years, and you'll see guys killing it under cree & other lamps.

i think you need to refine your argument because in a sense you are calling us all stupid & wasteful (slippery slope argument strategy) when most of us with grow experience are laughing at you. angle of the sun, blue hortilux, seasonal proximity to the sun, and more are all just an opinion... so gimmie a fucking break.

im dying to see your garden. talk that talk. walk that walk. you can produce better than issac in an optimum side by side... show me.

other than that go the fuck away. you're just stirring up shit.

i have tons of photos in albums here. show me one where my plants or flowers look like garbage under CMH.

 

[CannaRed]

Heather just skipped over the part where she herself said that cmh looked better than hps.

 

[King Rat]

i have tons of photos in albums here. show me one where my plants or flowers look like garbage under CMH.

again perfect example of typical cmh trashbud
dump it .... to my bowl for sure.

even my wife is biased towards women LOL

I'm curious to see heathers buds, why are you keep em' in captivity? one thread said FREE your budshots

 

[dank.frank]

All hail the great wisdom of HLL. No one on the planet knows how to read except her. No one is capable of coming to different conclusions after having read scientific article after article after article. Anyone who doesn't agree is a moron. Got it! Thanks for clarifying.

Like I said. I'll let my flowers do the talking. I know how things come out with every other system available. I've either used them or smoked the flowers of those who have.

I've run 1k with swapped bulbs in the last 2wks. In my opinion, what you are preaching as the end all be all, wasn't piss all better for the costs / effort required to do it. Lab tests prove that to the be the case as well.

New situations call for different lighting. I can't run 1k's where I am now. The option was to use old 400w magnetic ballast or to get some new tech. I'm not competing with 1k's or double ended lamps when I'm running a 315. I think the comparison is completely moot and pointless, in my application.

But that is irrelevant to you. You don't care that my experience of what you claim to be so epic, was nothing extraordinary or special or even an improvement upon.

All your talk of distances from the sun and blah, blah, blah, and yet you want to run blue lamps at the end of flower. I get it. You want the UV to increase resin production. Nice theory. Prove it works. I've run true UV lamps before in conjunction with HPS for 6wks of flower. You know what? Didn't make any difference in the grand scheme. Not more resin. Not more terps. Not more yield. Sure as shit cost more money though.

During the fall, the light from the sun is more RED in spectrum than it is blue. The only time the spectrum is more blue, is during the early spring. Thus why indoor growers for 50+ years have used blue bulbs for veg and red for flower. It wasn't rocket science then and it isn't rocket science now. As things have progressed and we've learned NOT more about lighting, but more about plants and photosynthesis, we've been able to look at what characteristics actually make a light efficient. Thus, how we got to PAR over wattage and lumens in the first place.

I'm using CMH, BECAUSE I WANT FULL SPECTRUM. WTF is so hard to understand about that? I want flowers, indoors, that are the closest I can produce to flowers grown in natural sunlight. I have logical reasons for this. Sun grown flowers hit my head in a different way. The effect is fuller and more complete. If using the same soil indoors and out, then you look at other environmental factors. The biggest one, being the HPS in the sky. WTF is so hard to understand about that?

You have your PREFERENCE - which is ALL it is. Nothing more. It's your opinion. You're entitled to that. Doesn't make you right or wrong or anything else. You do things your way. I'll do them mine.

In the mean time, you can stop with your holier than thou attempts to put me in my place by trying to belittle me and make me look foolish. It won't work because you aren't growing my flowers. I am.

Like I said before, Miss High Horse, if I don't like the outcome and find myself less than satisfied, I'll be the first one to say I'm wrong and start looking for other alternatives for lighting in my small space. Until then, I'm going to explore and learn about something new to me.

Nothing more needs to be said or exchanged between us at this point. Time will tell the tale. Until then, good day.



dank.Frank

 

[Scrappy-doo]

I am about to use the CMH with my Adjust-A-Wing reflectors. i'm planning on using the most narrow setting of the wings

Hope they work out. Only thing about those adjustawings is it looks like you lose some reflection with the front and back being completely open, no? I'd want something to redirect all that light going out at least the front (top) of the bulb. That's what it looked like to me on the one I saw. Never used one myself though so what do I know. I like that you can adjust the angle. They should make one with an adjustable front and back as well to harness all the light.

 

[King Rat]

Only thing about those adjustawings is it looks like you lose some reflection with the front and back being completely open, no?

absolutely true, thats the disadvantage you pay for the better heat dissipation.

 

[FrozenFire]

So my latest harvest with de cmh is worth sharing here. I pulled 1065g with 700w in a 4.5' x 5' area. That's 1.52 gpw. The bulb was 4200k and I believe 91 cri. No co2 used either. Just an undercurrent (rdwc) setup with 4 different plants scrogged. I never came anywhere close to this gpw with either de hps or se mh/hps. Oh and the reflectors are the hydrofarm open reflectors that come with the 1k de phantom ballast kits.

 

[dank.frank]

Probably 1065g of "trash buds".

Good job!



dank.Frank

 

[FrozenFire]

Yea quality is absolute shit. Lab tested results of multiple strains grown under the cmh go from 17% to 25.38% thc with not much visable resin... it makes me question if I'm wasting my time.

Hulk smash:

Hulk's dream:

 

[sturgeongeneral]

Ya I think cmh is a waste of time Heather. This frosty glue grown under my 630 must be an optical illusion. #moretrashbuds

 

[Ibechillin]

Ive been trying to share the grow lighting and photosynthesis thread in my signature around, lots of good information.