thanks Darwin,,,,
what you sayin Tom?
what you sayin Tom?
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Self Pollination vs Cubing Process???? why cube?
- Thread starter darwinsbulldog
- Start date
^^^^^can we talk about this for a second?
Genetic Load in Sexual and Asexual Diploids: Segregation, Dominance and Genetic Drift
Genetic load - wiki
interesting argument whoever said that englishrick! guess it's just another one of those things that is in a long line of things to be experimented with and tested to get real empirical data on the matter other than speculation. interesting!
Genetic load - wiki
interesting argument whoever said that englishrick! guess it's just another one of those things that is in a long line of things to be experimented with and tested to get real empirical data on the matter other than speculation. interesting!
its all quotes that ive saved on my external hard-drive
im just searching for a hypothetical argument against M/F breeding,,,,
i think the "genetic load" a good start
here is another good 1....
im just searching for a hypothetical argument against M/F breeding,,,,
i think the "genetic load" a good start
here is another good 1....
gettitreal
Member
Its dangerous to post quotes without any reference to the species being discussed, Rick. It sounds to me like your quotes above are discussing a species that is sometimes NOT diploid. Are those quotes from a book on cannabis?
is a haploid cannabis plant not natural?
your right!!,,its on bee`s,,,i saved the quotes because i was pretty sure this applys to cannabis too,,,,,can you confirm or quash this argument?
canna`s ancestors aint diploid ....are they?
its a pleasure to talk to you getitreal,,,,well spotted bro!!,,,,im praying you stay with us this time
your right!!,,its on bee`s,,,i saved the quotes because i was pretty sure this applys to cannabis too,,,,,can you confirm or quash this argument?
canna`s ancestors aint diploid ....are they?
its a pleasure to talk to you getitreal,,,,well spotted bro!!,,,,im praying you stay with us this time
finding a "fine smoke" is a job for 100`s of judges
,,,init hoos?,,,thats why OG, ECSD, ChemD, Bubba...Cheese etc,,are considerd "world class" clones,,,,,,but its simply the job of a good breeder to remove undesirable traits!,,,peserve traits!,,,maybe even add traits to a seedline,,,all canna plants and seeds are good sh1z,,,just aslong as it can be worked into something that fits a niche
funkymonkey
Member
All those you mentioned are good cuts rick, but truth is, things just as good can be found from seed, just people are too lazy to look, these days everyone wants instant gratification and wants to grow something with a big name. Sure, there are a lot of shit seedlines on sale these days, but there are still plenty of good ones where you can find excellent plants.
A good breeder surely is one that creates new and unique seedlines from original P1s rather than those who cash in on popular names by working with 'elite' cuts which are mostly bagseed or of unknown origins.
A good breeder surely is one that creates new and unique seedlines from original P1s rather than those who cash in on popular names by working with 'elite' cuts which are mostly bagseed or of unknown origins.
the best plant breeders have freezers full of landrace,,,,the best breeders touch-bace with landrace farmers,,,but thats not practical for everyone,,,,,just getting hold of landrace genetics is a blessing,,,,sometimes just getting ahold of anything special is hard work
cuts like OG,,,and ChemD are simply novel or supirior within there niche,,,,the supirior genotypes deserve to be preserved!!
cuts like OG,,,and ChemD are simply novel or supirior within there niche,,,,the supirior genotypes deserve to be preserved!!
a haploid anything isn't very common. diploid is the norm which means 2 sets of chromosomes, that's what we are, that's what cannabis is. 10 sets of 2 paired chromosomes, one from mum one from dad. the gametes are haploid. i'd say that most if not all of cannabis's ancestors are diploid, at least all of the recent angiosperms.
yeh,,i agree,,,cannabis is diploid,,,,[2 x haploid gametes],,,
but,,, are high levels of diploid males a result from small effective population sizes [Ne]??,,,,,,,an are "males" just failed attempts at female production??
but,,, are high levels of diploid males a result from small effective population sizes [Ne]??,,,,,,,an are "males" just failed attempts at female production??
males are always diploid, do you mean homogametic males as in YY? i'm not 100% sure, i'd say the way you'd get homogametic males is by inducing female flowers in 2 males and crossing them XY x XY and then 1/4 will be YY. but i'm not sure i haven't looked into it. small effective population sizes would just lead to a higher inbreeding coefficient, but i'm not sure how that would lead to YY. you just can't get YY if you've crossed either male x female or female x female.
in the wild, even with a small Ne you're still getting XY x XX and that can't result in any progeny being YY because both parents don't have a Y. so i'd say Ne or N (effective pop size, or pop size) has no affect on levels of hetero/homogametic male individuals (XY to YY ratio).
in the wild, even with a small Ne you're still getting XY x XX and that can't result in any progeny being YY because both parents don't have a Y. so i'd say Ne or N (effective pop size, or pop size) has no affect on levels of hetero/homogametic male individuals (XY to YY ratio).
please let me rephraze myself:
emagine i was running samS Original Haze,,,,,an im constantly Inbreeding trying to preserve the line from year to year
lets emagine that:
1. mutation is not occurring
2. natural selection is not occurring
3. the population is infinitely large
4. all members of the population breed
5. all mating is totally random
6. everyone produces the same number of offspring
7. there is no migration in or out of the population
what would happen to O`haze,,,,do we see a decreese in males?,,,,
is an increese in diploid males within a population an indicator of loss of divercity?
emagine i was running samS Original Haze,,,,,an im constantly Inbreeding trying to preserve the line from year to year
lets emagine that:
1. mutation is not occurring
2. natural selection is not occurring
3. the population is infinitely large
4. all members of the population breed
5. all mating is totally random
6. everyone produces the same number of offspring
7. there is no migration in or out of the population
what would happen to O`haze,,,,do we see a decreese in males?,,,,
is an increese in diploid males within a population an indicator of loss of divercity?
i can't imagine why you'd see a decrease in males, i would've thought if all those things were constant then sex ratios would reach equilibrium at about 50:50 or slightly under for males maybe. if no natural selection is occurring at all then nothing will change other than random genetic drift (fixation of alleles in the population). if some how homogametic males became more common then maybe you could see it as a loss of diversity due to no X chromosome, seeing as the Y's are smaller then they've lost a bit of genetic mass. but if a lot of males were YY then that'd be resolved in a single generation where all offspring from them would be XY males and no YY's would be formed. hope that helps mate
im not talking about homogametic YY males,,,,im leaning towards the "rachet theory" and how the Y chromozone evolves,,,,,
my argument is that the XX outcrosses are better than XY outcrosses
the X holds more info than the Y so why only use XY in outcrosses??
it seems like we are slowly gona lose everything if we keep only using XY males
my argument is that the XX outcrosses are better than XY outcrosses
the X holds more info than the Y so why only use XY in outcrosses??
it seems like we are slowly gona lose everything if we keep only using XY males
yeah i was getting confused with what you meant by diploid males... i guess i see where you're coming from, and also Y chromosomes don't see any recombination so genes are never shuffled on them. you'd possibly get more variation in progeny from a XX x XX outcross compared with XX x XY one then as all the X chromosomes will recombine and shuffle the genes and you get 25% more of these than with the XX x XY cross. is that sorta what you're talking about?
exactly!!,,,,,more divercity!!
yeah, i think once i get into breeding i'd only use females once i'd got a decent seed stock from initial M/F open pollination. as well as that you have twice as many female to put through selection etc which is better than trying to figure out what the males are going to give to the next generation through indirect trait examination. but that's just me not saying there's anything wrong with F/M.
ive got a feelin that an increese in the ratio`s of males to females indicates a loss of divercity,,,,
no1 is sticking to the Hardy wineberge conditions,,,,,im sure its having some effect on our beloved cannabis genepool
emagine if males are just failed atempts at female production
no1 is sticking to the Hardy wineberge conditions,,,,,im sure its having some effect on our beloved cannabis genepool
emagine if males are just failed atempts at female production
mmm well anything will have an affect but i doubt it'd be doing anything that anyone needs to worry about. at the end of the day XX x XY in the wild has been working just fine for millions of years. and if anything today we're lowering the ratio of males to females due to femmed seed and fem breeding techniques.
