Self Pollination vs Cubing Process???? why cube?

[darwinsbulldog]

hey mate, yeah i think all that would result is that you'd have two seedlings attached at the root base emerge from the soil. i wonder if they'd grow slowly, like half the rate of a single seedling? keep us posted if any of them do germinated mate i'd be really interested to see what happens too best of luck!

 

[funkymonkey]

Those twin seeds are very intriguing, never seen one like that before, I have had a few twin sprouts out of a seed before, but the seeds looked normal.

 

[darwinsbulldog]

how'd the twin sprouts out of a single seed grow up in the end funkymonkey? just turned into 1 or 2 normal healthy plants?

 

[englishrick]

yeh,,,ive seen 2 plants out of 1 seed beffore,,,thats twins as i know it

 

[Texicannibus]

I gave a friend a pack of freebie mandala. He popped one bean and got a twin. Funny I have never gotten a twin =(

 

[funkymonkey]

Sometimes Twins grow into two nice plants, more often one is a weakling and just gets culled as it doesn't grow very good.

 

[CFP65]

Well here comes the update on the double seeds and the male from the S1, and to my dismay i was now told by the clonedonor
that the strain was not pure Kromes triangle but a cross
Kromes Triangle x NL#5/PK wich does irritate me to the max after having worked on this thing since december 09

as promised i would upload a pic of the male standing next to both cuts from the original mother and an S1 so you can
see differences in appearance and here it is
back row form the left is 2 x original cuts and the S1 male
front is a S1 from the same batch that has not yet shown sex

as for the S1 double seeds there is germination on at least one seed

and this is the seedling

 

[darwinsbulldog]

nice stuff mate, look like just one half of the double seed germed maybe it'll be like a seedlign on roids if it can access the unused energy from the other half haha

 

[hoosierdaddy]

I have been a fan of STs because it is a precise art that has good studies behind it that show the optimum dosage of silver ions. And basically that is what we are doing with CS, only with the CS the formula is hit and miss...a crap shoot at best. This is one of the reasons we see folks having failures with CS and very rarely hear of STs not working properly.

ANywho...
CFP65, you have me very confused. Please help me here...
Let me see if I have this straight...you had a cut that was given you, and the cut wasn't what you thought it was. (not that it really matters what the cut was).
You treated the cut with CS to force male pollen and used that pollen to pollinate another of the same cut.
The resulting progeny of that mating resulted in lots of twin seeds and males? I can see the twin seeds being a mutation due to the stress used, but how did you end up with males?
"An S1 that hasn't shown sex yet" See, that is a misnomer of a statement, because as far as I understand it, there will be no males come about from a true S1 selfing. Could you explain to me where I am misunderstanding?

 

[englishrick]

them "S1 males" will probbly monoecious XX chromozone plants

 

[the END]

Self pollinated seeds & Simple Breeding Techniques

Self pollinated seeds & Simple Breeding Techniques

Truly, I have very little growing experience, but I have been studying for years… and more recently peeping through a lot of these breeding threads. I have now come to a sorts of sort...

Here’s the story…

I have 3 plants right now, which when they get older, I intend to cross in order to produce subsequent generations of AF seeds for my own personal use. The first is Nirvana's new feminized AF seed, Bubblelicious(freebie what can I say?!). The other 2 come from a separate breeder out of a regular mixed pack of seeds, and are the only ones out of 20 that fully germinated, YES 20. Let me first put it into your minds, that They are my only plants of this variety, I don’t have more seeds at the moment, I know the selection rate is low, and I wont potentially have the greatest plants, genetic diversity, etc etc... I’ve read through most of it all… Anyway, It seems there is quite a large range in genetic diversity from these 3 seeds alone that the next generation will have much to work with, and if it’s any kind of work or breeding ethics that is to be considered at this moment, then this next generation must be out crossed yet again to an entirely new seedline(I’m thinking OG lowryder)to really be able to form a basic, diverse, compatible gene pool to then be able to further an individuals operations of self expression and Humanoidal Cannabis Sexual Breeding Configuration(whatever the fuck that means!).

Random thoughts on the issue…

-Since the plant was received in its feminized “selfed” state in seed form, and the objective is simply to create a personal supply with ‘enough’ genetic variation, Out crossing it with another similar, but genetically very diverse species sounds like an excellent plan to create a large stash, and possibly find a few keepers to focus in on. But I wouldn’t call it advisable to inbreed these seeds again… Find another source to mix in with those keepers…Then the endless fun begins does it not?

-When you find that particular plant which you want to 'keep around' or 'reproduce' via CS feminized seeds, Do it once, to itself only. Do not feel the need to further breed with these seeds, just grow for the main reason you chose this plant in the first place, and when the seeds are out, it's done. Move on. Start over. lol

-After a plant has been Selfed, do not ever 'self' succeeding generations; unless for alternative experimental techniques...

So, I know I’m still very much a newbie, I just wanted to share these concluded thoughts of mine as they arrived. The only use I see for selfing a plant is to as fully as possible, maintain ‘that’ plant, or as close to ‘that’ plant as one can come without it becoming another plant. But I would never use the resulting offspring for further breeding when the mother is available, unless of course one of them just happens to blow your mind(hey it can happen, right?), or if it was the only 1 you had and no mother available(read above), either way, These S1 plants generally may be considered viable for out crossing at this junction, but strictly to an entirely separate species in order to re-establish diverse genetic makeup. Maybe this is common knowledge, maybe I’m full of shit, I just wanted to state something simple that hasn’t been much detailed, and thought would be a healthy sort of common underlying boundary for the average dude. Don’t bash me man, I’m just here to learn, to learn to teach, and to teach to learn….

Here’s another interesting thought (or maybe not ha!)
Hypothetically speaking, If the 2 mixed seeds both turn female, and it was decided to use CS on 1 of them to then self pollinate itself, the S1 bubblelicious, as well as her sister, whom I would presume something along the lines of 50% similar genetic material (a Good enough speculation for presumed history in my books). Then I would say the resulting babies, which are…
Feminized AF bubble x CS mix-AF pollen = feminized AF bubblemix
Mix-AF x CS mix-AF pollen = feminized mix-AF
CS mix-AF = It’s Self!

Should be low-high quality AF seeds?! Am I right? And then the higher quality can obviously be selected to further breed with an entirely new variety. Maybe not so much the seeds from the selfed plant if you’re against that… Out of purely theoretical evidence, I would like to imply that 1 generation of selfing is OK, even by breeding standards. IDK what I’m ranting about really, trying to get the swing of things and find my own opinions and technique.

Much LOVE IC
Sorry if My language is out of whack, I’m in the works of true sanity.
Help a bruddah out, I hope my thoughts don't seem like garbage. between limitation, experience, science, lingo and the basic mystery of life; I'm just trying to create my own line.

 

[CFP65]

ANywho...
CFP65, you have me very confused. Please help me here...
Let me see if I have this straight...you had a cut that was given you, and the cut wasn't what you thought it was. (not that it really matters what the cut was).
You treated the cut with CS to force male pollen and used that pollen to pollinate another of the same cut.
The resulting progeny of that mating resulted in lots of twin seeds and males? I can see the twin seeds being a mutation due to the stress used, but how did you end up with males?
"An S1 that hasn't shown sex yet" See, that is a misnomer of a statement, because as far as I understand it, there will be no males come about from a true S1 selfing. Could you explain to me where I am misunderstanding?

well lets summarise what i did

1. i got a clone that i grew into a motherplant

2. i took 16 clones from the mother

3. i took 3 of those clones and CS Treated them (in the extreme)

4. i let the 3 CS Treated clones pollinate the 13 other clones by letting them stand together in my tent.

5. i harvested the beans whereoff app 1600 is looking fine and app 100 have been double seeds.

6. i sowed 10 seeds of this S1 batch some days after harvesting them,

7 of these 10 seeds sprouted and was numbered in the order the sprouts came out of the seeds and then placed in the pots outdors (free of false light) before the sprouts came over the ground.

8. after that they have been growing and i have been giving them the best of care.

The first of these germinated seeds and therefore no.1 to get a number (no.1) has shown to be male and i mean wery male
the rest 2-7 has not shown sex, and by that i mean preflower or any sex signs yet.

i do not understand the male either i can not grasp this

1. the fact that i should pic 1 out of 1600 seeds
2. that this seed was to be male in a S1 batch
3. that the male plant looks more like the mother/csFather than any of the other S1 in the batch.
4. the plant smells like any of the other S1
5. at the time pollination took place (april) the weather was pissing rain for a month, my appartment has no airducts, and its been two eyars since i made any pollinations in the room, the pollen as i see it has to have come from the CS plants.

this is a closeup of the male today and it sprouted at 2.may 2010
so its now 2months and 1 day old

 

[CFP65]

them "S1 males" will probbly monoecious XX chromozone plants

could you please explain that?

 

[Tom Hill]

What he's saying is that's not likely a male genetically speaking, it just looks like one phenotypically. Keep a close eye on it now and see if it doesn't throw a few pistils for you at some point. -T

 

[darwinsbulldog]

monoecious = plants showing both sexes not just one. so he's suggesting that those S1 males were actually female plants that were showing male traits. they had no dominant Y chromosome which would've made them naturally males, you just can't get those from selfing because you've taken a female XX that had no Y to begin with and all the progeny will only be able to receive X chromosomes from mum and thus can't be male dominant, so any males seen will be a result of stress inducing monoecy both female and male flowers or if stressed enough from an early stage it may just show male traits. that's all just IMO and from what i've read. correct me if i'm wrong

darwin

 

[CFP65]

ok thanks guys, i will keep an even closer eye on it than i already have.
by the way a get a lot of contraditory things about this cross first it was called "The White" then Kromes Triangle and then The White x NL/PK
is Kromes Triangle and The White x NL/PK one and the same thing or am i missing something?

 

[englishrick]

thanks for backin me up Tom an Darwin,,,do you both agree with what im saying?

i bet that the indervidual`s sex-specific chromozones have become inactive,,,causing the autosome to controle the sexual expreshion,,,enviromental factors ae now controling the sexual expreshion of the indervidual as with monoecious specimines..

Am I Right?

 

[CFP65]

you guys have a god idea to what besides watch her/him whatever i should do.
try and pollinate back on the original clone, just to see what happens?
and at the same time polinate to one of the other S1
just to see if its fertile?

 

[hoosierdaddy]

From what I have seen, many of these "sport" cuts are the culprits when it comes to providing the gene pool with ample intersex trait. Folks get something interesting, and the selection process is over. They have in essence their smoke and breed cut. And unless they have done proper testing with the cut, it could very possibly be a poor choice as a P1.
Couple that with your pal has already breed it to something else, and who knows how stable that was...what you have may well be a fine smoke cut, but perhaps not breeding material.
Is it something that is so special it is head and shoulders above other smokes or yields?
If not, maybe find better material to work with.

I am very interested to see the progress of the stamened plant.

 

[darwinsbulldog]

yeah i'm on the same boat as you englishrick, i believe you might be correct.