Seeking Critique on Vert Colosseum SOG concept.

[Anti]

Ok. I had some temporary work available leading up to Christmas and since I'm broke, I took it. Then I took a day off for christmas because none of the stores were open.

Yesterday I went to the hardware store and priced stuff out. The PVC drain idea (assuming I put 6 drains in the top tier and 4 drains in the bottom tier) will cost about $65-70.

(The idea was to put 3 drains on each of the "long" sides of the tiers one on each end and one in the middle on top tier, and one on each end on the bottom tier.)

The "drip feed" idea will cost about $100 which would allow 1.5 drippers per plant on the top tier and 1.3 drippers per plant on the bottom tier. (60 drippers up top, 40 drippers down below.)

I would also buy an extra pump (~$25) to ensure that each tier was getting plenty of water pressure.

So total cost would be about $170 (plus drip clean, perlite, and nutes) to implement the drip feed/drain to waste idea.

I have spent a couple of days checking locally and online and those are the best prices I could find on tubing, elbows, tees, etc.

So it looks like financial concerns are leading me towards running with the E&F setup for at least one more run. (I know some of you ballers are looking at that and saying, "$170? I paid more than that for my whiz-bang-doodle!" but I'm not quite in baller territory yet.)

That way, I only have to buy perlite, a lil extra coco and nutes.

 

[bobblehead]

So it looks like financial concerns are leading me towards running with the E&F setup for at least one more run. (I know some of you ballers are looking at that and saying, "$170? I paid more than that for my whiz-bang-doodle!" but I'm not quite in baller territory yet.)

That way, I only have to buy perlite, a lil extra coco and nutes.

lol... Cut corners where you can, and go all out on the important things... I buy a lot of used equipment, but I have the best in lighting, air exchange, watering, etc etc...

I have an idea. It's actually you're idea. You could potentially still do the coco bed idea. So you have your flood and drain fittings installed... Then you can put down A: gutter guard or B: hydroton, and then make a custom liner out of landscape fabric. There's no reason you can't do it yourself for cheap. I would insist on the liner b/c the coco is good at making it's way through cracks, and I don't think even hydroton could hold it back 100%. Gutter guard would allow for better drainage. I didn't like the idea of such a shallow bed by you adding dead space like you had mentioned before... but realistically the roots are still going to grow in that space. Just make sure you use the landscape fabric to prevent clogs, cause the roots are gonna impede drainage enough.

What do ya think? This way you're roots will have more space to stretch out... and hopefully it's economical enough of a modification.

 

[Hundred Gram Oz]

Anti, you don't need any PVC pipe for the drain, just use 16mm flexible pipe right into your waste.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Crap I just got to have that whiz-bang-doodle. What is it and where do I get it?

 

[Midnight Rudy]

Now that I see you bitching about $65 I'm going to make 1 more pitch for bottom fed passive hydro.

Satori from clone in 2 liter bottle. Clone was about 6-7" over the lip of the pot before transplant going directly into flower and was flowered for 10 weeks with just a hint of amber at harvest. 1.9 sq ft cab with 4 vertical 55w pll lamps with 3 plants on either side. This plant only went about 2/3 the way up my lights, and I am now vegging taller and I expect this to be on the low end of my production after the next few harvests. This was just before chop but this plant is super leafy and I wanted to see it stripped down before I fully trimmed. Wet weight, fully trimmed was 101 grams and the rootball was bone dry so I expect this to be right at about an ounce, but it is still in the dryer.

This is the rootball. there was roughly an inch on the top that didn't have any roots and about 2" on the bottom that had just one or two roots hanging out. What you see on the left crumpled off of the top and bottom when I pulled the rootball out. the roots in this rootball were perfectly white and evenly spaced. Far from rootbound.

Here is some KCB rains crap that was topped once and put into flower at 3 nodes in an MT38 treepot. Dry weight on this one was 21 grams.

If you want to keep it on the cheap, this is the way. I can't say it will outproduce any other system because I haven't compared, but you can make some great weed with this method for sure. Nothing rots or stinks or has any problems due to water sitting without a bubbler or whatever. I even reuse my mix after I rinse it out, but rinsing probably isn't necessary because I flush for a week or two anyways.

Ofcourse I will admit that part of my want for you to do a comp and include passive is because I don't have the ability to compare and I am curious!!!

 

[Guest 88950]

coco beds with a buried U shaped pvc pipe with holes drilled along the bottom piece of pvc and the upright pieces of pvc extend past the surface of the coco.

a passive way to aireate the root zone, the coco dries faster = more feed/h2o.

im using this in a no-drain 15 gal tote.........no salt build-up so far but i can drill drain holes and feed dtw if i need.

good luck

 

[Anti]

Fuck it. I bought the drippers. Going ahead with drip to waste. No more fucking around.

 

[Hundred Gram Oz]

LETS DO THIS

 

[AOD2012]

YEAAA BUDDDDDDYYYY!!!!1



You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Anti again.

I have gotten that message many times reading this thread.


aod

 

[DHF]

Tell me you bought the 1/4" tubing and basket stakes.....or was Bobbles not adamant about him upgrading to em.....

No chance of clogs and spreads a wide path 360 dgrees where the juice hits when the feedpump kicks on.....

Saw dripclean on your shopping list , so H&G Roots Excellurator along with the myco`s Smith talked about need to be put in the budget asap as well since building the rootzone as fast as possible by end of stretch will determine how efficiently the plants process their feed till end of cycle.........

Can`t speak for the zyme caps but they sound killer if they perform as stated........

No wayta know if they perform equally with dripclean without a side by side so that`s for future findings.....Anyways.....

Take care and good luck...DHF...........

 

[bobblehead]

You made the right decision.

 

[Anti]

Tell me you bought the 1/4" tubing and basket stakes.....or was Bobbles not adamant about him upgrading to em.....

1/4" tubing is a check. I got 50 feet of it. I'm planning on running the 1/2" tubing in a rectangle around my tier. I figure if I run each rectangle right around the edge of the bed, any leaks will be more likely to simply run off to the bed.

So each drip line should need go about 6" or less from the main line. (50 ft / 2 = 100 lines)

The only drip stakes that were available were pretty simple little things that have a 4" stake that goes into the bed with a little clip at the top to attach the 1/4" tube to. Is this going to be an issue? I can get 100 basket stakes for $35 on amazon and return the ones I've got to shave off part of that cost. The ones I bought will pretty much just have the tube terminating at the stake and dribbling water

The hydro store in my area has a much more limited selection than what you Cali guys will be used to.

For instance, NONE of the products recommended by Agent Smith were available. For a calcium suppliment I did pick up some CalMg+ after checking the different brands available to me. The CalMg+ had slightly more active ingredients per dollar than the other three choices but they were all pretty close to the same % wise.

I got 4 cubic feet of chunky perlite. I'll put down a 1" bed of straight perlite (on top of the screened in 1.5" drains) and then mix some perlite in with my coco layer which will go in on top of the perlite layer. There will be six 1.5" drains per tier. Hopefully that will provide adequate drainage. (It works out to one square foot of drain holes per tier.)

I could add more drains relatively inexpensively. So somebody please chime in tonight if you think that's important because I plan to start assembly tomorrow morning.

 

[silver hawaiian]

Anti

1. Awesome thread here. Glad to see everything from your reaction at harvest, to the support from everyone here, to your re-focused resolve & attitude.

2. ..I was going to chime in re: drainage, but after many types/edits/deletes, I'm way more dumb than I thought before I started replying. My brain tells me I'd like something a bit more active/aggressive in re: drainage, like a channel/trough/whatever, .. But on second and fifth thoughts, maybe the bed o' perlite may be sufficient..? I'm anxious to see the other opinions here - I think we're allllllllllllllll learning something here.

 

[Hundred Gram Oz]

Anti, tell us more about the beds, are you going to put the perlite directly over the drains, or have you modified a gap between the perlite and drains? I'd have went with hydroton for drainage rather than perlite, and I would also put a layer of hydroton at the top of the bed to limit evaporation.

When your building your feed line, have a T piece where the pipe coming from the pump gets to the table, you want the water to be split and going both directions for it's travels around the line for a balanced and equal flow, do you know what I mean? Also make sure that the 1/4" dripper lines are cut to the same length or you will get an uneven water distribution. You might also need to install an inline tap, here's a post I made earlier in the year explaining...

[Click pictures to enlarge]​

Hi all I'm not long back from the grow and everything is running along smoothly. There was too much flow going to the drippers so I put an in-line tap into the feedline a few inches above the pump. Here's what the taps look like.



They let me set a flow rate, I'm using a pump for each lamp so I had to make 3 of these, only takes 5 mins. I cut the feed line around 6 inches above the pump, inserted a T-piece, run a few inches of pipe from the T-piece and inserted the tap as shown in the pics below.



Attach the pump to the end of the feed line and this is the result



Then it's just a simple little tweeking at the tap until there's enough pressure going to the drippers.

HGO

One very important thing to do when using the inline tap is to put it above the water level of your rez, otherwise the water will siphon to your drippers when the pump shuts off, just have it pointing back into the rez and you'll be fine.

There was something else that I was goint to say but it's left me, let me get back to you.

HGO

 

[Anti]

Anti

1. Awesome thread here. Glad to see everything from your reaction at harvest, to the support from everyone here, to your re-focused resolve & attitude.

2. ..I was going to chime in re: drainage, but after many types/edits/deletes, I'm way more dumb than I thought before I started replying. My brain tells me I'd like something a bit more active/aggressive in re: drainage, like a channel/trough/whatever, .. But on second and fifth thoughts, maybe the bed o' perlite may be sufficient..? I'm anxious to see the other opinions here - I think we're allllllllllllllll learning something here.

Let me try to make sure the idea is clear. There will be a 1.5 inch circular drain every 2 feet or so which will connect to pvc drain system that drains to the waste res. I could add a few more drains if necessary. The perlite layer would be directly above the drains (with a mesh to keep perlite from entering the drains) and the coco bed would be above that. With one minute feeds, it seems like reasonable drainage to me. But what the hell do I know?

 

[bobblehead]

You'll have plenty of drainage. Good work. The stakes with the clips will work just fine. The basket stakes point the flow of water downward and spray it everywhere... but I break every other one b/c they're made cheaply... As long as you can control the flow so that the water doesn't squirt everywhere, you're gonna be fine. If funds allow, you could add 90 degree elbow to direct the water downward.

Keep on rockin.

 

[Anti]

^^^ Sketch up version with black dots representing drain holes. (Holes are to scale but not perfectly in place.) ^^^

Crappy green blobs represent 1.5" pvc drains and holes.

Crappy green blobs represent 1.5" pvc drains and holes.

 

[Anti]

Anti, tell us more about the beds, are you going to put the perlite directly over the drains, or have you modified a gap between the perlite and drains? I'd have went with hydroton for drainage rather than perlite, and I would also put a layer of hydroton at the top of the bed to limit evaporation.

i did look at hydroton and contemplated ditching the coco all together, but the cost kept me from implementing it today. I already spent more than i estimated (which I knew I would) to get the stuff for THIS setup. 4 cubic feet of perlite is $20. Less than one cubic feet of Hydroton was $40. I'd need 3-5 cubic feet of hydroton to fill those beds.

When your building your feed line, have a T piece where the pipe coming from the pump gets to the table, you want the water to be split and going both directions for it's travels around the line for a balanced and equal flow, do you know what I mean?

Yes. I had to buy the "tee" pieces in a bag of 10, but I really only need 3 or 4 of them. So i'm totally set for 1/2" Tees and elbows. I could only get 75 1/4" elbows (that's all they had) so I can currently only run 75 of my 100 lines. But I'm gonna probably go ahead and order some more from amazon or somewhere and should have them by the time I need them.

Also make sure that the 1/4" dripper lines are cut to the same length or you will get an uneven water distribution.

I was planning on doing so because of my OCD tendencies, but you've given me an excuse to be extra anal about it. Thanks!

You might also need to install an inline tap, here's a post I made earlier in the year explaining...

One very important thing to do when using the inline tap is to put it above the water level of your rez, otherwise the water will siphon to your drippers when the pump shuts off, just have it pointing back into the rez and you'll be fine.

Got it. Between your pics and bobbles and everybody's help I feel pretty confident about this now that all the parts are here.

I'm going to try running this with my single 496 gph pump and see what my water pressure looks like. If it doesn't provide enough pressure to keep all the feed lines flowing I'll get another one just like it and run one to each tier. I can get them much cheaper online than the hydro store wants to sell it so I figure I'll go ahead and see what one can do before I spend any more money.

 

[silver hawaiian]

I must've missed the drains thing - sounds purdy groovy to me.

 

[Hundred Gram Oz]

Your welcome Anti, that's what ICM is all about, sharing information and IMHO the vert forum is the leader in that department.

The only thing that I can critique right now is the pump, your bottom tier is smaller than the top, if you take in the rise as well, your bottom tier will be saturated before the top, it's not a biggie but I'd use the 2 pumps for a more even feed all around, if they have different pressure rates then simply adjust the inline tap accordingly.

Have you bought the PVC yet? IMO more smaller drains would be better than a few larger ones, if it was me I'd put in 10 drains on each side +/-, just to be safe.

No worries if the funds only allow for perlite, I know how that one goes. I'm looking forward to the build pics if your doing any?

Peace
HGO