Seeking Critique on Vert Colosseum SOG concept.

[Midnight Rudy]

Thanks for the ideas and the advice. I can't make the ceiling any higher than it is. There's one section where it's only about 5' high but that's because there's a ventillation duct running through there. The only way to raise the roof is to make the table shorter, which I am about to do in the next day or so once I get an opinion. (more on that in a minute.)

I think you had said before that you could only gain headroom by lowering the table. Same idea for sure. In my system I have a more finite light pattern since I am pushing light off of long tubes vs the spherical output of the hid. Point is don't let any of that precious light go to waste. That is the key to effective vertical IMHO. Using all of the light that comes off the bulb before it gets reflected.

Anti, have you considered setting up different sections of your bench with different techniques for this next run? I'm getting the feeling you aren't going to be satisfied unless you dwarf your cfl numbers, or you have tried every possible way to get there. I think while you are still in a prototype phase you should consider setting things up the way you first tried, and then some with the current suggestions. You could mix and match pot sizes and beds vs pots, ebb and flow vs drip etc. Do all the screwing around in the next run and be done with it, ya know?

Another thing I haven't seen mentioned is passive hydro. You would be surprised how problem free and simple it is. 50/50 coco/perlite soaking in 2" of solution... Then BAM! Your smokin weed! Ha Ha Ha! Seriously though, there is nothing simpler than mixing a jug of nutes every couple of days and pouring it into the res. I have been running this way for over a year and even have my moms, clones, vegging plants, seedlings all set up with pots of coco/perlite parking their fat lazy asses in trays of nutes.

 

[Hundred Gram Oz]

Ok bro lets see where were at...

Well, I'm investing in the drip fed to waste idea. I went up to the hardware store to look at PVC. Not being much of a plumber, I need to kick that idea around for another day or two so I can get my head all the way around it. Wanna make sure I have it solved before I start laying out cash. Things get expensive when I "guesstimate" and then eff things up. (I've learned that the hard way.)

Ok Anti, bear with me because I just took a few dabs of bubble and have been smoking all night with the Mrs so I'm a little zoinked right now. In short, go with the drip system drain to waste with coco. Coco = less fuck ups and less shit storms. Coco isn't that different from soil, you can grow in coco just like you grow in soil and you will get similur results BUT the beauty about coco is that it can also be a hydroponic medium well semi-hydroponic, just by doing mult-feeds per day, hit that 5-15% run off and ta da your semi-hydro. I'm not saying that the guys with the hydroton medium idea is a no go, these guys know what there talking and I'm 100% sure that they are kicking some serious ass but for less shit storms go with the coco DTW.

Now it's all good me saying that but we've got to build it into your already built system, some modifications will be more expensive than others and I'm not 100% sure how we can do this with the proper drainage requirements in place at low $$$, the only good option that I'm seeing is bending some mesh into a U, sliding it into your beds with a 2" gap between the mesh and the base, then do what bobble suggested and have mult-drain pipes going into a waste rez, this will keep your setup level and free flowing.

You're probably thinking shit this is gonna be a lot of work with the drippers and all but really it isn't at all, don't be afraid to take the small step from soil to a coco drip system because it's real simple and after you get it setup and water a few times you'll feel real glad that you made the switch over, seriously it will basically run itself with auto watering and all, it will save you so much time that you can put to use in other aspects of your grow. With the multi-feeds your yields will go up, I'll get a few cats over here to tell ya how it went for them, they just made the switch over and are well impressed. After you get a run or 2 with coco then think about going fully hydroponic, 1 small step at a time and I know y'all are gonna be saying hydroton is simple and just as easy and yeah it is but this way you will get the same results as fully hydro with more ease of mind along the way, it's all about learning and I think coco will be a great platform for you to start off at.

I'm still deciding between the bed and the pots. I'm also waiting to hear how much they're gonna cost me.

Beds all the way, Anti. When I think of either beds or pots I think that pots are going to restrict my roots and yield, the beds will give your plants a lot more room for roots than you might think plus it's easier to look after and clean up after, you can burn coco.


Congrats on making it through another semester. Enjoy the time away because the next one will be starting soon enough.

If you need something to do, explain to me how you attach the feeder lines to the main pump line (and any tips you may have discovered along the way that will save me from having to do it twice). That's one thing I am completely in the dark about.



Thanks for going the extra mile, homie. So with 4.5" spacing i'd lose 2 plants off the top tier (38 instead of 40) and a similar number (say 4 just to be safe) on the bottom (26 instead of 30), so if I did it this way I'd end up with approximately 64 plants (instead of 70) but each plant would have a little more than twice the medium to grow in and its own dripper feeding it.

Read bobbles kick ass thread and let us know if you fully understand it, if not please ask questions, this is an important part of the process but it also can appear to be threatening and a lil scary which puts a lot of people of it and they end up growing in soil the rest of their lives in reality its very simple once you understand the concept.

To keep the plants as close to the light as possible I will run the next run with only a day or two of veg.

Besides saving a nickel on the new pots, is there another more compelling reason to just run beds instead?

Roots, roots, roots. More roots, and more oxygen going into the root system thus allowing the plants to achieve more photosynthesis that leads to more nutes being used and that leads to bigger buds, bigger yields basically.

 

[megayields]

Wow for someone who is "zoinked out" that was remarkably well thought out and now a word from my sponsor.....

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

I'm curious about people's takes on this "root's need room to grow" discussion. If the narrow troughs are filled directly with media, or if the troughs are packed tightly with rectangular containers full of media, it's still roughly the same amount of growing media for root space. In fact the treepots might allow for more growing media since they rise several inches above the troughs.

What is different is that in one the roots can stretch out amongst the roots from all the other plants like a bucket of worms, and in the other each plant has its own small private room for root mass. Either way the roots are packed together tight. Also, if the treepots are used with drip lines and not moved for two months until harvest, you know those roots will be a solid mat throughout the bottom of the trough anyway (some people use woven coco fiber mats to encourage this).

My experience with multiple plants in one container is that usually one plant dominates the others, but this is growing from seed. With the identical genetics of clones, I suspect it would be a different interaction between plants since they might not recognize separate individuals as being "others" and hence competitors.

 

[bobblehead]

My experience with multiple plants in one container is that usually one plant dominates the others, but this is growing from seed. With the identical genetics of clones, I suspect it would be a different interaction between plants since they might not recognize separate individuals as being "others" and hence competitors.

You're observations are accurate... The reason 1 plant overtakes another in the same root-zone is that one plant is growing faster than the other.

When you're monocropping, all the plants grow at the same rate. Even if one clone is healthier than another, and dominates the root-zone... so what? All you're doing is repositioning branches of a plant to receive light equally. If one branch is bigger and one smaller, that's ok... Not the goal, but not everything works out perfect in nature.

The plants do sense the presence of other plants... and it actually pushes them to grow hard-mode and compete with their neighbors. They don't want to get choked out.

Pots constrict the roots... Fabric pots let the roots grow out the sides. In this particular system, a coco bed is going to be the best option... or w/e medium Anti chooses to go with.

 

[megayields]

"hard-mode?" you taking lessons from Crush?

 

[Anti]

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=217068&highlight=bobblehead+makes+drip+system

skip the shut-off valves and use open ended basket stakes.

Seriously, even at 2 pages, that thread should be stickied somewhere. That thread (especially the pictures) takes a shadow of an image in my head and fleshes it out so that I could go right to the store, buy exactly what I'm going to need and get it knocked out with no guessing or stoney paranoia.

Thanks so much. For reals, yo.

Sorry, I know I'm late to the party on this whole thing but hopefully some of my input can still help.

You were the first to the party at my first grow, so I can't be too mad at you for showing up so late into this one.

1. Ditch the pots. I know you're a picture whore (no disrespect, you know ) but you shouldn't let that affect your designs. I would suggest a bed of hydroton for optimal aeration and root space. Roots = Bud!

That's two people on the hydroton bandwagon. I am not discounting it as a possibility, but I'm gonna go ahead and blow through the coco I've already got and see if I can't come to an understanding with it before giving up and moving on.

2. Stick with the Ebb and Flow design. The only thing about drip that I don't like is that usually it doesn't fully saturate the medium but rather one side of it really well and the other side not so much. Now that can be overcome with numerous drippers or drip rings but why go through all the hassle with the setup, cleaning, and replacement of hoses, fittings, and drippers when all you need is a fill, a drain, and a pump? Ebb and Flow saturates every inch of the medium to the height that you set your drain, no missed spots.

It's hard to come to a decision when I have voices that I trust on both sides of the fence.

E&F appeals to me because it is already paid for and I don't have to worry about feed lines getting clogged. Also, if I eliminated my pots, I could flood the table within an inch or so of the top. (With SHORT-POTS or even my current pots, fully half the medium would be above the floodline.)

Drip feed appeals to me if it means I won't have to worry about salt buildup in the medium above the flood level. Drawbacks that I can see is the slight expense of having to buy feed lines and accessories plus having to buy and build a better drainage system into the table.

3. Keep the CMH bulbs. I don't think the problem with your yield had to do at all with the type of light you used but a combination of other factors that added up to your lower than expected yield.

Light not being the problem seems to be a general consensus among everybody so it's the last thing I'm worrying about at the moment. I definitely don't wanna shell out $200 on eye hortilux bulbs if I don't have to.

4. Dial in your feeding. Alot of problems I see in many grow rooms stem from nutrient issues. I notice in your grows that you aren't without issues and I think a little dialing could help. At this exact second I don't remember what you're feeding but I'd be more than happy to make some suggestions that might help you improve things.

I started my first grow using DYNA-GRO BLOOM in soil with perlite, worm castings and dolomite. Sometime after that I switched from dyna-gro to GH Floranova BLOOM with no amendments in light mix. My last harvest in my microcab was in light mix (with added perlite) and I used GH MaxiBloom powder (1 tsp. per gallon) and DYNA-GRO PROTEKT silicone at ~1/2 tsp per gallon.

Using that exact formula, I got some of the best results thus far in my microcab, but significantly less than stellar results in coco.

I will also say at this point that I've never owned any kind of PH meter except drops and I never used them the last year or so I ran my microcab.

I'm quite willing to believe that fluctuating PH levels in combination with my watering schedule contributed quite a bit to the deficiencies in this harvest.

5. Keep doing you! You're doing a great job as it is man and you have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. You've done far and above what I've seen from most newer growers. Look at your Anti-Cab, so many people would LOVE to have that as their second or third setup let alone their first! As long as you keep improving at the pace you have been, we're gonna see amazing things out of you in the years to come bro

Thanks for supporting, homie. Sometimes I need that pep talk.

are you sure i cant swing you to hydroton?

If I wasn't broke and sitting on a bunch of coco, you'd have a much better chance. I'm not ruling it out for future runs, though.

LOL, if anything, I thought the picture whore comment would get commented first but hey...

Seriously though, I see it with lots of grows but nobody says anything about it. As you know, I in no way meant he sucks at it, or is bad at it at all, but almost everyone in the game could use some dialing in on the nutrient side of things.

I'm all for people pointing out nutrient issues in my grows. I want fan-fucking-tastic results and my pride can take a few hits if it gets me where I wanna go in the end.

I'm not growing in containers because I'm a picture whore, but because when I started growing, I didn't see anybody talking about beds and I'd say that 99% of the people on here seem to be in containers of one size or another.

The only people I can talk to about this stuff are you guys. I don't know any IRL growers in my area. And the few times I've met someone who claimed to grow, I kept my mouth shut about my own adventures.

I think you had said before that you could only gain headroom by lowering the table. Same idea for sure. In my system I have a more finite light pattern since I am pushing light off of long tubes vs the spherical output of the hid. Point is don't let any of that precious light go to waste. That is the key to effective vertical IMHO. Using all of the light that comes off the bulb before it gets reflected.

I appreciate the sentiment, but before I worry about crushing the numbers, (for example, cramming 140 plants in there so they are almost touching each other) I want to get my bud density back to the level I know the genetics are already capable of.

Anti, have you considered setting up different sections of your bench with different techniques for this next run? I'm getting the feeling you aren't going to be satisfied unless you dwarf your cfl numbers, or you have tried every possible way to get there. I think while you are still in a prototype phase you should consider setting things up the way you first tried, and then some with the current suggestions. You could mix and match pot sizes and beds vs pots, ebb and flow vs drip etc. Do all the screwing around in the next run and be done with it, ya know?

This is a seriously awesome idea that I may have to spend a few days thinking about. To do it right I might have to wait another cycle and hope I've got some money flowing in by then.

Excellent suggestion!

I'm not really worried about CRUSHING my numbers, so much as matching them. If I can get 14g per plant (albeit with fewer plants at once) with great looking, dense, fragrent nugs in my CFL cab, success to me would be defined as getting 14g per plant with similar density and quality.

I'm curious about people's takes on this "root's need room to grow" discussion. If the narrow troughs are filled directly with media, or if the troughs are packed tightly with rectangular containers full of media, it's still roughly the same amount of growing media for root space. In fact the treepots might allow for more growing media since they rise several inches above the troughs.

I had the same thoughts. If those short-ones were packed in right next to each other, each plant would have about 1/2 gallon of medium.

If I just go with beds, the overall area (in cubic inches) is approximately 3864 cubic inches. But if I divide that area by 70 plants, it's only 55.2 cubic inches per plant.

In those shortones, each plant would have 101.64 cubic inches to grow in.

Mini Treepots (0.2 gal) =46.2 cubic inches (currently in use)
Current Beds = 55.2 cubic inches per plant
Short-Ones (0.44 gal) = 101.64 cubic inches per plant

So having done the math, do you guys still think that beds will outperform the containers?

(Also keeping in mind that in my current containers I was able to more than double the current harvest per plant without increasing the rootzone in my CFL cab.)

You're observations are accurate... The reason 1 plant overtakes another in the same root-zone is that one plant is growing faster than the other.

When you're monocropping, all the plants grow at the same rate. Even if one clone is healthier than another, and dominates the root-zone... so what? All you're doing is repositioning branches of a plant to receive light equally. If one branch is bigger and one smaller, that's ok... Not the goal, but not everything works out perfect in nature.

The plants do sense the presence of other plants... and it actually pushes them to grow hard-mode and compete with their neighbors. They don't want to get choked out.

Pots constrict the roots... Fabric pots let the roots grow out the sides. In this particular system, a coco bed is going to be the best option... or w/e medium Anti chooses to go with.

I can see how a bed that could hold an equal amount of medium as the containers would improve things for the plants, but what about the choice between a bed that effectively halves the available medium of the container?

The currently built beds vs. currently in use pots would be SLIGHTLY more space for each plant to grow in, but if I got those short ones, I'd be giving each plant significantly more total medium to grow in than either bed or current pots.

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

Drip feed appeals to me if it means I won't have to worry about salt buildup in the medium above the flood level. Drawbacks that I can see is the slight expense of having to buy feed lines and accessories plus having to buy and build a better drainage system into the table.

Throwing some more ideas into the mix;

If we are going to accept containers of coco sitting in these ebb and flow troughs with only the one drain to empty after a flooding, why can't we accept containers of coco with slow feed drip lines draining the same trough through the same drain?

And thinking of this another thought popped into my head that sent me back out to the shop to fit pieces of wood together again.... these Short-One treepots fit the troughs so snugly that there is only about .25" of tapering free space for an 1.5" up on either side for water to pass along. There are lips around the bottom drain holes that project enough to lift the pots up off the botttom maybe 1/8". With pots heavy wet full of coco pushing down, roots growing all around, I can conceive of water having trouble flowing the length of the trough.

On another thought.... It seems so important to make the perfect decision here, but all grows are a learning experience and time just rolls along. There's time enough to try a lot of different things here and build up a knowledge and experience base that will allow you to build this thing only once more and have it wired, instead of building two more to get to the same place.

Since it has two levels you could double the learning experience by using containers of coco in one level and filling the other with hydroton.

We're watching hoping you'll try all sorts of stuff so we can learn from your mistakes.

 

[Yah`mon]

I'm curious if anyone has a link to someone growing 1k vert? I've searched and haven't seen much.

It's what I have to work with atm.

Debating on how to utilize it.

I was thinking circle, but seems like making shelves would be a bit of effort.

Octagon with 2 levels? Or just a square. Id be thinking 16 plants if it was an octagon... 1 plant per side per level. Square 2 plants per side per level.

Just haven't found the right thread yet. If anyone can give me a link or some idea's it's much appreciated.

I believe I've checked most of the most popular threads.
If I missed the obvious, sorry.

Thanks again.

Yah`mon

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Anti what about a mix of bed and pot. Cut the bottoms off the pots and put down a bed of coco under them. It may raise the coco above where the top of your tray is at, and allow more coco then either does by it self.

 

[woolybear]

If you're thinking about going coco, be sure and douse that shit with anti-root aphid shit... them fuckers love coco, its what screwed up my first run in my tent.

Think its called bayer, you can buy it at the home depot.

Or, skip coco and use 100% perlite. I hate root aphids.

 

[Agent-Smith]

Seriously...

LOL, that's as far as I'm going with quoting and replying to you cause there's a million things to say and only so many quotes I'm willing to deal with.

That being said, I'm gonna try to make it simple for you in points like I did before and just hope that I touch on everything and don't leave something important out.

First things first though, an observation that I see all too often is new growers listening to too many people and trying a whole host of options so that it actually takes them longer to dial things in because they are changing too many variables at once or too often. So my suggestion is to not get too many ideas bouncing around up there, pick a direction, and stick to it. I do know it's hard to do that, especially with the wealth of knowledge the growers here hold, but remember, everyone grows a little different and does different things so everyone is going to tell you different ways to go. Look past all of the words and numbers and calculations and first think of the plant and what it wants. Take it back to basics, and work from there. Think about efficiency as far as you are concerned but also for the plant. How can you make every stage and aspect of growth easier for the plants?

1. Let's go with the beds vs. pots argument first and try to kill this bird once and for all. Pots are restrictive, period. Who would win a race between a woman in a skin tight dress and a woman who was completely nude? The nude chick all day long because she isn't being restricted by the dress she's free to stretch her legs farther with each stride and go faster easier. The same goes for plants in a pot. Every time a root hits the edge of a pot, it has to expend more energy changing directions and finding a new path, but if it was an open bed it wouldn't need to change paths nearly as often and would instead grow to a bigger mass faster since all of that extra energy was spent going farther, deeper, and making more roots. We all know what more roots equals right?

2. Now, on to another biggie that has to do with the above argument is your calculations of root space. While you're thinking of these different pots, have you taken into account the extra height they will add and how it may negatively affect your light vs plant placement? And I noticed you were saying something about maybe shortening the tables? Can you locate the reservoir next to the table instead of under it which could afford a few extra inches? Just some thoughts. Also, if the height increase isn't a factor then why not just raise the height of the troughs with some more wood? I'm sure it would probably cost the same or less than the pots, would allow you to run the beds instead, and overall look cleaner with less work on your end. If that isn't an option and you still wanna run the pots, cut out huge sections of the pots, place them in the troughs and then fill with medium. That would give you the extra height you want but with the holes, the roots would be free to roam around more like a straight bed would allow.

3. You say you want to use your coco cause you're on a budget and I'm all for that if you want to do it but I wouldn't run it. With all of the issues you run into with regular coco it's such a pain in the ass whereas with hydroton or CocoNot you don't get the nutrient lockout and issues at all, especially if you are paying attention to the minute details. If you decide to still run the coco, just know that you're gonna chase these issues and pay extra to correct them until you go with a totally inert medium. The more factors that you control, the better your end product will be, quality and quantity wise.

4. This point and the next point will have a little in common as well but this one has more to do with your drip vs E&F argument than nutrients which will be the next point. I'm not saying that drip won't work and won't be good, but E&F is way easier, way less parts, and guarantees full saturation of the medium which is crucial for maximum root development. Again, efficiency and ease of use/maintenance is primo here. To touch on your worries of salt build-up, may I turn you onto the use of enzymes and beneficials? If you use these two correctly, your salt build-ups will be a thing of the past no matter what medium or style you run but I'll touch on those more in the next point. And unlike what Midnight Rudy suggested, please don't do multiple styles of feeding and mediums, one at a time until you get each one mastered is the best way to do it, and will teach you better because you can devote your attention to one thing instead of multiples.

5. Nutrients. GH? No really, GH? Seriously.......GH? All jokes aside, there are way better products out there and the use of just a couple of additives could really help you out immensely.
(a) First and foremost, Cal-Mag supplement!!!! That shit is an absolute must in coco since the coco strips it out so easily and if you use RO water, it's even more of a must because there's none IN the RO water. Just don't use full strength because it does add a lot of PPMs to your mix.
(b) Enzymes will almost fully rid you of the problem of salt build-up. They are very efficient at doing their job which is basically chewing up "salt build-up", dead root tissue, and nutrients in general, and pooping out a nutrient that is much easier to take up by the roots. They're a little on the expensive side but once you try them, you'll never go back. I would suggest the Zyme Caps made by Green Planet Wholesale. They don't become active until you mix them so they're 100% strength guaranteed unlike other companies who have them active in the bottle already so that you never know what strength they are since you don't know how long they've sat in a warehouse, and then on the store's shelf for. Look at this almost like you would a shower for yourself. You take a shower every day because you get dirty right? Why? Because as a person, every day you sweat, get dirty, and your skin dies and needs to be removed to expose the new skin to oxygen and sunlight so that your pores can breathe correctly and perform at peak function. The same goes for a plant's roots and those enzymes act as a shower, removing dead cells and debris so that the root can perform at optimal efficiency all the while with the added benefit of converting the dead cells and debris into more food for the plant.
(c) mycorrizhae Any left overs the enzymes don't get, these guys will find. If you haven't read about these bad boys, lemme give you a quick overview from wikipedia:

Mutualist dynamics

Mycorrhizas form a mutualistic relationship with the roots of most plant species. While only a small proportion of all species has been examined, 95% of those plant families are predominantly mycorrhizal. They are named after their presence in the plant's rhizosphere (root system).

Sugar-Water/Mineral exchange

This mutualistic association provides the fungus with relatively constant and direct access to carbohydrates, such as glucose and sucrose. The carbohydrates are translocated from their source (usually leaves) to root tissue and on to the plant's fungal partners. In return, the plant gains the benefits of the mycelium's higher absorptive capacity for water and mineral nutrients due to the comparatively large surface area of mycelium: root ratio, thus improving the plant's mineral absorption capabilities.
Plant roots alone may be incapable of taking up phosphate ions that are demineralized in soils with a basic pH. The mycelium of the mycorrhizal fungus can, however, access these phosphorus sources, and make them available to the plants they colonize. Inga alley cropping, proposed as an alternative to slash and burn rainforest destruction, relies upon Mycorrhiza within the Inga Tree root system to prevent the rain from washing phosphorus out of the soil.
Suillus tomentosus, a fungus, produces specialized structures, known as tuberculate ectomycorrhizae, with its plant host lodgepole pine (Pinus contorta var. latifolia). These structures have in turn been shown to host nitrogen fixing bacteria which contribute a significant amount of nitrogen and allow the pines to colonize nutrient-poor sites.

Mechanisms


Leccinum aurantiacum, an ectomycorrhizal fungus
The mechanisms of increased absorption are both physical and chemical. Mycorrhizal mycelia are much smaller in diameter than the smallest root, and thus can explore a greater volume of soil, providing a larger surface area for absorption. Also, the cell membrane chemistry of fungi is different from that of plants (including organic acid excretion which aids in ion displacement). Mycorrhizas are especially beneficial for the plant partner in nutrient-poor soils.

Disease and drought resistance

Mycorrhizal plants are often more resistant to diseases, such as those caused by microbial soil-borne pathogens, and are also more resistant to the effects of drought.

So yeah, you need some of this. Great White Shark is a great myco product for a really good price, but there are others out there as well.
(d) a new base nutrient is a must for you. General Hydroponics is just that......General. For an outstanding change and much better growth, switch to the Advanced Nutrients SensiBloom 2-Part, Green Planet's Hydro Fuel Bloei 2-Part, X Nutrients Micro and Bloom nutes, or even Supernaturals line if you want some change you can see and still get out for very cheap at the hydro store.
(e) Keep the Pro-tekt
(f) Bud Candy just a suggestion for added aroma and flavor, but it also now has their other product CarboLoad in it which would really help to feed the mycos if you do decide to use them.
(g) Bloom Booster such as Massive, Big Bud, or any other booster will also help give the plant more of what it needs for this crucial developmental stage.

6. METERS! Without these, you can only do so much. Invest in a good $150-200 meter and never look back. Hanna, HM digital, and Oakton all make great meters.

OK so I think I hit every point I was going for but who knows. All I know is that I've been on this post for almost two hours now and you're lucky I'm on vacation or I would have had to charge you $200 for that much of my time. HAHAHA, just playin, you know I'm always here for you bro, and if you shoot me a PM with your addy, I'll pop a hand full of Zyme Caps and a baggie full of Great White in the mail for you to try out for your next run so that you don't have to shell out the dough for these until the next round.

I'm going to go smoke now

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

 

[Hundred Gram Oz]

Wow, information overload.... We all need to get together for a drink sometime lol

 

[GP73LPC]

i know right ^^^^

 

[Ichabod Crane]

I only drink mountain dew.

 

[Agent-Smith]

Wow, information overload.... We all need to get together for a drink sometime lol

LOL, I'm down anytime. I love talking about this stuff! Not only do I do it for 9-10 hours a day at work but then I come home, tend the plamts, and talk to you guys about it online as well. This shit is a lifestyle!

For example, I'm on vacation right now and I've still already visited three different hydro stores, just checking them out, shootin the shit, talkin the talk, LOL, can you tell I'm addicted?

 

[Agent-Smith]

LOL, I think we gave him too much to think about and his brain fizzed

 

[Hundred Gram Oz]

Agent-Smith, your living the dream bro

Anti, where are ya dude?

LOL

HGO

 

[~Shhh~]

Anti I'm sure your gonna kill it with V2, surprised at the yield all the same but I'm sure you'll knock the ball out the park next run.

Agent smith..... U duh man

Merry Xmas all!