Sea Green by Beneficial Biologics- sample

[slausongardens]

thank you so much georgesmiley on the info about phc biopak.. i will definitely buy this product and save the money on passing up the sea gren. thanks again

 

[TacomaComa]

I'm have amazing results with this stuff. I'm using the rootamentary and true blooms also. The true blooms seems to help with internodal spacing.

 

[opt1c]

George.... you're the fooking man! Great info!

 

[Dignan]

MM-

There's nothing wrong with asking what's in it. And by the way, it annoys me that the company isn't up front about what's in it. But there is obviously something in it besides microbes, because my garden already has a high population and diversity of microbes and yet I'm seeing a difference with the use of this product. My hunch is that it's fermented molasses and kelp, but who knows.

And there's nothing wrong with you choosing to not recommend it to others before YOU are satisfied about what's in it, etc. In my case, I haven't attracted followers here who care about my endorsement of any product, so I don't feel a responsibility there. I just started using it... the results are excellent... I know my plants well enough to recognize positive results when I see them... that's really all I'm saying.

The line I see being crossed is when people get away from just having honest curiosity, or even respectful skepticism, to essentially telling other people that the product is inferior (how do you know if you don't know what's in it?) and that the people running the company are nefarious, and that anybody buying the product is a fool.

We should be able to discuss things like this without intentionally offending people or being inflammatory. But the fact that we can't isn't really anything new, which is why the OFC private group exists... so we could get away from that kind of thing.

Peace-
Dig

 

[Microbeman]

The line I see being crossed is when people get away from just having honest curiosity, or even respectful skepticism, to essentially telling other people that the product is inferior (how do you know if you don't know what's in it?) and that the people running the company are nefarious, and that anybody buying the product is a fool.

I guess besides you saying this now, I came the closest to saying something like this. I could not find these statements in the thread.

Well regardless, I hope someone serious about growing in living soil won't use something unknown.

 

[Dignan]

Evening, MM. Because you asked why I didn't answer your questions...

I am completely open to seeing what is included in this product and perhaps it is great but I've had a hard time finding this so far.

Other than that, have we not already encountered problems in the horticultural world by testimonial type fads?

I don't know, but it sounds like we have since you are asking the question. What sort of trouble?

Would it not be refreshing for some of these North Amercian companies to openly admit that they get this stuff from somewhere else and repack it at such and such a rate?

Yes, I would find it refreshing.

If I came out with some product, say called 'Microbe Man's wondernute' and there were some blokes saying 'wow, you should see my plants....unbelievable!' and I was not revealing what was in it and even that it would not pass organic certification, would you run out to buy it?

Not if I looked for an OMRI label on everything. But I don't. I didn't rush out to buy Sea Green. Everyone else has been using it for a few years now and I've ignored it because I am hype-averse. (I avoided tea brewers for the same reason. And, until recently, OGs, which turn out to be superb smoke, but I digress...) And I didn't finally break down and spend a (whopping) $11 on Sea Green just because friends' plants were looking healthy; I was actually moved to buy it because I smoked a friend's ganja and it was grown and finished and cured perfectly... and when I asked him what he was doing differently, he shrugged and said, "Dunno. Been using that Sea Green stuff this summer."

So here's the disclaimer, everybody: I don't know what's in Sea Green and it very well could include soluble nutrients or other insidious ingredients. So if you're trying to avoid anything like that, or anything without an OMRI label, you're going to want to dig deeper than I have in determining what exactly Primordial Solutions' formula is.

 

[Toes.]

MM-

...anybody buying the product is a fool.

We should be able to discuss things like this without intentionally offending people or being inflammatory. But the fact that we can't isn't really anything new, which is why the OFC private group exists... so we could get away from that kind of thing.

Peace-
Dig

really?!?! ICMag organic politics?... so you guys have a private club where you talk about using over priced sewer water and nobody can disagree, or even insinuate a product is just hydro store ornamental wall fluff. you know a fancy package looks good in your hands. humates and microbes and CEC. it's a proper soil in a bottle! you better not show me I'm throwing away money...

I used to want to be a part of that group... emphasis on used to.

I guess besides you saying this now, I came the closest to saying something like this. I could not find these statements in the thread.

Well regardless, I hope someone serious about growing in living soil won't use something unknown.

I didn't find anything you said upsetting, I don't use this product so my feelings are not attached to it either.

I'm sure if you had shown the OFC a few years ago, that Liquid Karma was over priced hydro store wall decor, you would get the same reaction.

 

[SeaMaiden]

Redacted for pointless.

 

[Avinash.miles]

thread about a product becomes bickering @ a product....
oh well still lurkn

 

[GeorgeSmiley]

MM-

There's nothing wrong with asking what's in it. And by the way, it annoys me that the company isn't up front about what's in it. But there is obviously something in it besides microbes, because my garden already has a high population and diversity of microbes and yet I'm seeing a difference with the use of this product. My hunch is that it's fermented molasses and kelp, but who knows.

Just to try and explain where I'm coming from on this,

Working with new med growers in my area, Ive become particularly annoyed by a couple of things. One is the lack of interest in learning about the products you give your plants. Paying $100 for kelp extract at the hydro store when its 9-13 a lb elsewhere..... is annoying to say the least. But that's fine.... its their money, no one gets hurt.

But about the 10th time someone told me they ruined their crop and have no meds from using that "free bottle of Gravity the hydro guy gave me" I was perturbed to say the least, someone got hurt trust me. Whats in it? "I think kelp or something man"

The last time someone was hawking a small bottle of viscous miracle fluids..... they turned out to have Paclobutrazol in them. But evidently we didn't learn much from the "Gravity and Bushmaster" situation.

So when I hear of a new amazing product, with "proprietary" secret ingredients my alarm bells ring. Comparing microbial counts to the dosage suggestions the numbers are so low that the effects would really be questionable when comparing to established microbial products, their dosages, and the many, many published studies about these bacteria and their effective usage. So whats the actual active constituent making the difference?

So.... an amazing product being mixed in the back of a hydro store in Arcata..... (As it appears it is with PS Sea Green) with no ingredients, no msds, wont ship to certain states, wont answer emails about product info...... alarm bells again. Its possible they have magic in a bottle.... but, how many breakthroughs have hydro nutrient companies discovered for traditional agriculture? Possible, but unlikely, and I cant think of a single one.

So whats in Sea Green? 0.2-0.1-0.1 ? What's it doing at 1 ML per gallon? Is there any other agricultural nutrient or supplement that shows amazing results at 1-3ml/gallon That's something I do not know but would like to.

Why aren't you asking this before you use it? Because it was $11? Because your homie that grows the fire uses it? "Why not use it?" Because you don't know whats in it. No judgement, no rudeness, just accountability.

And there's nothing wrong with you choosing to not recommend it to others before YOU are satisfied about what's in it, etc. In my case, I haven't attracted followers here who care about my endorsement of any product, so I don't feel a responsibility there. I just started using it... the results are excellent... I know my plants well enough to recognize positive results when I see them... that's really all I'm saying.

The line I see being crossed is when people get away from just having honest curiosity, or even respectful skepticism, to essentially telling other people that the product is inferior (how do you know if you don't know what's in it?) and that the people running the company are nefarious, and that anybody buying the product is a fool.

We should be able to discuss things like this without intentionally offending people or being inflammatory. But the fact that we can't isn't really anything new, which is why the OFC private group exists... so we could get away from that kind of thing.

Peace-
Dig

Well I certainly didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings and definitely wasn't trying to shame anyone for using a product. I just wanted to hopefully add some info that could benefit peoples gardens and save them some money.

It does seem a little thin skinned though........ as if to say you were offended so you you'll retreat to the inner consortia of organic fanatics where such rude people aren't allowed. Does that group tend to use a lot of things with unknown ingredients? Because that doesn't exist in my gardening paradigm. I want to know and I need to know. And to that end, the companies that produce all the products I use/have used have provided enough info on the product, and their business practices are such, that I can make an informed decision. So, while I'm not saying they are nefarious as you have said, but I am saying there are enough issues that would lead one to be cautious.

I only really post here to help people, Ive been here a long time, through 2 usernames and never received a single negative feedback or rep until this thread...... I haven't been posting much in the last year that I was sick and seems I'm a little out of touch with peoples feelings and the vibe around here and for that I apologize.


Cheers
GS

Edit: I'll ask a moderator to remove all my posts after a bit but wanted people to at least see this first.

 

[Toes.]

i order food for a nice restaurant. it's my job. among other things...

day in day out I've got salesmen who make their salary (commission) off the things they sell my restaurant. (2 national, 5 regional, and a half dozen local purveyors of fine foods) I buy food, gourmet or otherwise, based on a double keystone mark up ( as with all restaurants), I need to keep food cost at 33% or lower. usually 28% over all food cost is as low as I will go. my target is in the middle ... 30%.

Of course anything more than 33% food cost, I'm cheating myself and the owners out of a good profit margin, anything less than 25%, I'm cheating our guests. that would mean, I'm selling SPAM at Lump Crab prices.

so the basic menu cost out goes like this... How much food is on the plate. what did it cost us to purchase that amount of protein, starch, and veg... and garnish if your so inclined... times that by 3... you've got your menu prices. the first two is overhead and the third is profit.

but sometimes it will not add up!

that's where Value Perception comes into play...

I'm not going to be able to sell New Zealand Rack of Lamb at 3x'x what my cost is... nobody is going to spend upwards to $50 for rack of lamb... at least not enough people to make it worth putting on the menu.

so I need to make up for it some where on the menu. somewhere on this menu there is a huge mark up... it's exactly where I think people will pay way more than what an item is worth based on how they (our guests) perceive this item to be worth. it could be the seafood croquet's (<--made from last weeks seafood) or the jumbo shrimp(<-- from Thailand) ... whatever it is, I guarantee you it's not worth what your paying for it. just as long as I can sell enough to make up for the lamb's food cost discrepancy but, if you order the lamb... your definitely getting your money's worth... and then some.

I understand value perception vs. actual value, if I didn't have to make up for the Lamb, I wouldn't. but, if I didn't... I wouldn't have a job.

but think about this... before I even have to go to all the trouble of marking up what we sell, the purveyor's rep has already set his price based on what he thinks I will pay for it... and I bet that number is as far away from the actual cost as he thinks he can get away with. It's sales baby!

so that great 10oz ribeye you get at your local steak house for $35-40 a la carte, actually cost me around $10-12 a lb to buy. but, only after a team of world class chefs has skillfully prepared it and it's accompaniments, a classically trained server serves it... on porcelain, in a wood grained, brass accented, jazzy, relaxed atmosphere...

call me old fashioned, or call me Toes. I think a product should be worth it's total value. if it's re branded goods, that's fine. I like the way my favorite restaurant cooks a steak... and I will gladly pay 3 times what that steak is worth, because I know my favorite cook is back there perfecting his craft. and my taste buds will be happy. and I don't have to do anything but eat.

that's the only situation you will find me paying way more than what an item is worth. or what I perceive it to be.

 

[opt1c]

most sea kelp contains natural pgr's... that's why the one from norway is the only one they're allowed to use, Ascophyllum Nodosum, as it doesn't.

from what i understand there is a huge market in getting other kelp falsely labeled as having come from norway and being that type... huge market

 

[Microbeman]

What sort of trouble?

A major one being overuse of phosphorus;
- misunderstanding of senescence [N withdrawal is what causes color change]
- flushing can remove contaminants from plant tissue
- sterilizing soil
- throwing out soil
- orange coolaid & molasses flavoring
- organic molecules assimilated through stomata
- idiots in the 70s had many believing cannabis could not be cutting propagated

I'm sure I'm forgetting at least a dozen

I only really post here to help people, Ive been here a long time, through 2 usernames and never received a single negative feedback or rep until this thread......

Don't worry George, I got negative repped by whomever the dough head is doing it. It is too bad it does not show up who it is so they could be revealed for the double digit they must be.

BTW, this is the first I've encountered an OFC member trending mystery ingredients but don't make the OFC out to be more than just a group of people...no big deal.

Who knows maybe the stuff'll turn out ubernatural but fernow I'm doin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM4jmjhYH_I

 

[true grit]

Hey whats up man, dunno if you saw my first post in this thread where I list the actual concentrations compared to the others on the market, couple of points Id make,

Theres not a complex difference between the application of sea green and PHC biopack or similar. Powder into water. Powder onto roots, Same with the bulk products on ebay, compete plus is a 2 part powder that are mixed together in water. Trial and error? Im sending you to the companies that make this for agriculture and horticulture not their customers.

The phrase to keep in mind if you look at my first post in this thread is Lowest concentrations of bacteria for the absolute highest price Ive seen. Not just PHC, oregonism, zho but the plethora of "trich" and bacillus products in agriculture, And according to the expert I talked to at Koppert higher numbers are better. Also Koppert, an international authority on bio control of pest and diseases,

Honestly not on some trip here, ust trying to help

GS

All good brother man, I understand you are just trying to help. I guess my point is that i've seen PHC bio packs, zho, oregonism, Cap's bennies etc all use but still not change shit up like this stuff does. Currently know many running Cap's and then add this and see a huge difference, what it is- i don't know. Shit works. My point with the size was that yea an $60 bottle may be a bit expensive for someone on a budget in a closet, but running several thousand watts and being able to run many lights on that $60 bottle and improving results make it much less of a concern. In my case, the time i shaved off this run and done consistently could relate to an extra run a year...well worth the money imo as no bacterial pack has shown me time savings and growth improvement like this. Thats all, but i do understand your points- cant argue with physical numbers vs numbers. Cheers!

 

[SeaMaiden]

most sea kelp contains natural pgr's... that's why the one from norway is the only one they're allowed to use, Ascophyllum Nodosum, as it doesn't.

from what i understand there is a huge market in getting other kelp falsely labeled as having come from norway and being that type... huge market

Please expand on this, either in this thread or in another thread. I've worked with various macroalgaes (refugia technology, aka refugium, and algal filtration) as well as battled many microalgae.

If I'm understanding you, you're saying that A. nodosum does *not* have plant growth regulators. Is that correct?

I've looked a little bit into it, and from what I can glean, it seems that the most is done using A. nodosum because that's what is most abundant. Not necessarily because it's so much better than other macroalgaes. Which makes perfect sense to me. IIRC, kelps have been collected on beaches by local farmers for a while before research began on their use.

 

[Microbeman]

All good brother man, I understand you are just trying to help. I guess my point is that i've seen PHC bio packs, zho, oregonism, Cap's bennies etc all use but still not change shit up like this stuff does. Currently know many running Cap's and then add this and see a huge difference, what it is- i don't know. Shit works. My point with the size was that yea an $60 bottle may be a bit expensive for someone on a budget in a closet, but running several thousand watts and being able to run many lights on that $60 bottle and improving results make it much less of a concern. In my case, the time i shaved off this run and done consistently could relate to an extra run a year...well worth the money imo as no bacterial pack has shown me time savings and growth improvement like this. Thats all, but i do understand your points- cant argue with physical numbers vs numbers. Cheers!

So, obviously your patients/customers are not concerned about what inputs have been used for growing their product (or they don't know). I also have done this running over 25K watts and possibly derived the most income from chemical hydroponic, pummping up those fleshy flowers.

I went through a change morally and scientifically and gradually would not use chemicals or unknowns (outside of nature's unknowns). I found a method of growing using perpetually living soil, bugs'n'all.

You know what? After the first couple of years and onward, as the soil matured, we almost got the same harvest as previously in yield but the quality and price we offered eclipsed everything in that medical market.

You and others seem exceedingly pleased with this product and as I've said, perhaps it is great and entirely useful for organic/natural growing. Until we know, does it have a place in "Organic Soil"?

I'm not trying to be a contrary, just logical.

 

[true grit]

Understandable, but aside from what it says on the bottle comparing it chems/unknown inputs is not close to spot on...And saying patients are at odds because I don't what every single bacteria in it is far from the truth as well. Its derived from components are completely accepted materials in the organic world- i had no clue it had that bacteria that is listed, period. i thought it was just a fancy humic as it should be from ingredients, and could not figure out why it works SO much better than any other humic additive on the market. Check yourself before you start assuming the worst- you guys in this forum, whether you know it all or not sure are on a high horse about organics lol... another thread was complaining about bottled certified organic nutes as well. think its funny cuz i bet most folks aren't even that anal about their organic food consumption.

 

[Nada]

If you are too lazy to make stuff of your own

this is the way to go!

 

[Nada]

think its funny cuz i bet most folks aren't even that anal about their organic food consumption.

it's all about that raw vegan cow

 

[SeaMaiden]

Wait a minute, who told you about that cow, mang?