Sea Green by Beneficial Biologics- sample

[love2gro]

I can see that this dialogue may be meaningful to some, however to me it is mostly empty words with not a lot of foundational substance but as I always say, if it floats your boat....

I understand MM. And I totally agree with you. The only reason I use this stuff nowdays is if I have a strain that is very sensitive to my hotter soil (such as my lemon skunk). If I use this she becomes very happy and her leaf curl and burnt tips go away from too much food. this stuff binds up EXCESS nutrients to make them not available to the plant when its not needed. If I was not growing organic and was using AN or something I would use this with every watering and never burn my plants. even at high ppm. its like drip-clean but way better.

That being said, this thread is probably best moved to a different section. When I posted this I was just assuming I should post it here as the company was 'Beneficial Biologics'. Then as I talked to them I realized it wasn't what it seems.

MM- I follow your recipes for teas and have amazing results. Im always seeing these super-whack recipes with a ton of shit added and never looked at through a scope. It makes me laugh. Thanks for all the info on your site, I wouldn't have been able to grow the amazing meds I do without it.

 

[Dignan]

I love you guys. If it comes in a bottle, you guys are all over it like piranha.

 

[Toes.]

Don't worry about it. The guys who have jumped into this game are selling you information they seem to have yet to learn themselves. e.g. In this video the wiggling and squiggling described appears to be Brownian motion, something which fools many microscopy novices. It is a factor of the movement of water molecules which make it appear that 'pieces of organic matter' are moving or vibrating. They say 'look at all that activity!' Actually they are just being moved by water molecules. Believe me; I was fooled at first 15 years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muTxPXoAOjE&feature=em-share_video_user

As I recall they use one field of view to declare this is a fungal dominant tea.

Do you really think this shows the expertise required to culture diverse bacterial species? At least they do not blather the usual stuff about mysterious powers of microbes.

To establish that I am observing motile bacteria/archaea, I look for directional movement. To establish that I am observing non-motile bacteria/archaea, I look for structural formations such as chains or sausage links or very distinct rods or long strand bacillus or actinobacteria.


I've said it before but if you are seeking a microbial soup to inoculate your soil with, then just seek out the product with a clear label with the species and spore/culture count listed and choose the cheapest one with the highest count. There are a few labs in the US & Canada which are pumping out these soil bacterial and fungal spores for various companies to mix into their 'proprietory' concoctions and slap on their label.

If I wanted to purchase such a product, I'd look to the companies which provide for professional land scapers & lawn care companies.

your good... 15 years ago I was just a "vibrating piece of organic matter"... looking for a temporary conjugation




I've used a similar product before (humic acid and microbes in a bottle), it's called Quantum Growth.

Quantum Growth is a trademark of Applied & Experimental Microbiology (AEM), and is the result of a long-term partnership between AEM and Ecological Laboratories, Inc.

Ecological Laboratories, Inc.

The local rep however, had no problem handing over a list (also 'proprietary') of the microbiology that was found in each bottle. it's what helped me to start this thread here.

 

[OrganicOzarks]

I have no doubt that their products "work". However after reading through their website they don't really tell you what they are selling. I did not see any ingredients list, or a hint at how the products are made. I would however guess that the reason they are not organic is because they are using something like phosphoric acid to keep the ph low in the bottle.

I also saw no postings under their compost tea tab. I would love to see how they market their compost tea products.

Really this seems like a couple of guys that made some shit to grow with, and they hooked up with someone that has a strong background in sales. Hence the "bigger flowers", and "faster flowering."

Aren't those the things that every grower wants to here?

"Our raw sewage product will increase flower production, and shorten flowering time. Before purchase you must show proof of hepatitis B vaccination. We try to screen out most contaminants, however there may be some residual hypodermic needles, and crack viles still in the final product. So special care should be taken when handling our Raw Sewage Bloom Booster. Our bloom booster will also have trace amounts of prescription drugs in it. These drugs are all FDA regulated so there should be no concern with using them to increase yields, and shorten flowering time. A full "hazmat type" suite should be worn when handling this product. If you do come in contact with this product you are completely fucked."

Enjoy the bigger buds, and shorter flowering times.

 

[true grit]

Well little info or not, this stuff is the shit plain and simple. It was suggested I try it and I will use this stuff on every grow from here on out. Faster budset, faster finish, more terpene production and ability to feed much heavier with no ill effects. It made my coco plants rock solid and way faster and my soil plants speed up and yield like my coco. Pretty pricey, but compared to other humics/etc blows em out the water. Excited to see results in combo with super soil

 

[Microbeman]

Have you checked out water soluble 28-28-0? Comes in a bag---mix with water just like the big boys--unbelievable results!

 

[Toes.]

MSRP 1Gal Sea Green $360.00... and not one MSDS or lab results page... please. They obviously have spent money on the graphics. And a cool game changing slogan. but not one dime on informing the customer of what's in it.

actually, when I look at their site FAQ, all I get is a cryptic message reminiscent of an old girlfriend:

Toes: "Where have you been all night?"

Ex-GF: "Your so smart Toes, why don't you figure it out."

pretty lame if you ask me...

Here is an example of a legitimate product geared towards legitimate horticulturist and agriculturist
TurfPro http://www.turfprousa.com/turf_garden_pro_1001a.html

MSRP 1 Gal TurfPro $77.98 on sale right now for 69.99

from their website

Class A, Non-pathogenic, Bacillus Spores Added

To add even greater coverage against disease we add the following bacillus to our products:

Bacillus licheniformis – ATCC 55406
Target Pests: Bacillus licheniformis has been found to be effective against a broad array of important plant pathogenic fungi, including Sclerotinia homoeocarpa (Dollar Spot disease), Rhizoctonia solani (Rhizoctonia blight), Rhizoctonia oryzae (Rhizoctonia Sheath Spot), Pyricularia grisea (Gray Leaf Spot), Microdochium nivale (Pink Snow Mold), and Bipolaris sorokiniana (Helminthosporium blight).
Other Uses: Bacillus licheniformis is a ubiquitous bacterium thought to be of importance in the environment as a contributor to nutrient cycling due to the production of protease and amylase enzymes (Claus and Berkeley, 1986).
http://epa.gov/biotech_rule/pubs/fra/fra005.htm

Bacillus megaterium – ATCC 14581
Target Pests: Potential bacterial biocontrol agent against Rhizoctonia solani
Other Uses: Bacillus megaterium can work as a plant growth promoting rhizobacterium.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacillus_megaterium

Bacillus polymyxa – ATC 842
Target Pests: Bacillus polymyxa (Paenibacillus polymyxa), shows strong antifungal activity against B. cinerea
Other Uses: Data obtained demonstrates the capacity of lectins LI and LII from the soil nitrogen-fixing bacteria Bacillus polymyxa to change their proteolytic activity after interaction with surface carbohydrates of wheat seedling roots.
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a769582525~db=all~order=page

Bacillus circulans – ATCC 9500
Target Pests: As an animal food supplement for chickens it can significantly reduce Campylobacter.
Other Uses: B. circulans can influence plant growth directly through the production of phytohormones and indirectly through nitrogen fixation and the production of biocontrol agents against soul borne patogens.
http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/mr102006/642.pdf

plus a whole slew of scientific information ( from the University of Florida) on this product at their website, only draw back is their packaging doesn't look cool. it just says turf pro. no fancy drawing of mother earth. and trees giving birth to fish and stuffs.

 

[true grit]

LOL. People can complain all they want about price yada yada, proof is in the pudding. If you are a good grower that gallon goes forever and the yields/product off that dwarf/shadow the cost. I was bitchin bout cost at first too, now not a concern.

 

[Lowman]

I started using this two weeks ago. My girls in veg blasted off at 1ml/gallon. I may backoff to 1/2ml/gallon. The stuff seems to be doing wonders...but I don't want my veg girls to grow quite so fast. The green of the plants is nice...and I'm noticing nice thick stems near the top...not just the trunk.

 

[Avinash.miles]

ive had great exp. w all 3 of the products i got from this company: sea green, root-amentary and true blooms.

sea green works nicely, kinda a generica additive for anytime, i use on small plants w canna start
rootamentary is nice replacement to RE and rhizotonic, its very low dosage, like .25 ml per gal.
tru blooms they say to foliar in the first 2 weeks of flower, i did w good results.

same way tho, toes:
very little info @ what is actually in the lil bottles i got, on website on bottle, or whatever.
but unlike other samples i got (aptus) i actually used these and sampled them and felt good about the results and products themselves

 

[watts]

This is what's in Sea Green

Bacteria-
-Bacillus pumilis - 2,300,000 CFU/gm
has been shown to inhibit certain pathogenic fungi
-Bacillus coagulans - 2,300,000 CFU/gm
phosphorus solubilizer
-Bacillus megaterium - 2,300,000 CFU/gm
phosphorus solubilizer
-Bacillus licheniformis - 2,300,000 CFU/gm
digests proteins in the soil, especially feathermeal
-Bacillus azotoformans - 2,300,000 CFU/gm
reduces excess nitrates in the soil
-Bacillus thuringiensis - 2,500,000 CFU/gm
acts as a larvacide of certain pests
-Paenibacillus polymyxa - 2,300,000 CFU/gm
fixes atmospheric nitrogen into a plant usable form
-Paenibacillus durum - 2,300,000 CFU/gm
converts ammonia into nitrates
-Azotobacter chroococcum - 2,500,000 CFU/gm
powerful nitrogen fixer
-Pseudomonas aureofaceans - 2,200,000 CFU/gm
thrives in clay soils

 

[true grit]

gracias...good stuff, most info ive seen yet on it.

 

[Microbeman]

And where do they get them?

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/474628780/Microbes_for_Soil_Improvement.html

http://www.alibaba.com/product/tw10...anism_Agents__Effective_Microorganism_B_.html

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/603228716/SUKAAgri_Nutri_Biological_agent_for_absorption.html

96 types of microbes – wheweeee!
http://www.alibaba.com/product-free...bacteria_VS_34_Comprehensive_biochemical.html

Bacillus thuringiensis

BTW, I don't know how responsible it is to include Bt in a general use inoculation. Is that not one reason we criticize Monsanto?

 

[Dignan]

I'm not using it for microbes; my compost teas already take care of that for me.

And I was skeptical of the cost, too. But it works. And @ 1/2 to 1 ml per gallon, I can't imagine how anyone would ever go through an entire gallon themselves. Turf Pro's application rate is 2 oz per gallon.

That said, my first hunch was that Sea Green is Turf Pro, boiled down to greater concentration and then repackaged. I doubt that's true, but the thought crossed my mind. For one thing, the wording at the Primordial website regarding Sea Green is very similar to the wording Turf Pro uses. e.g. "The more applications, the greater the benefit." [paraphrasing]

 

[OrganicOzarks]

You know you can go out in the woods, and get effective microorganisms for free right?

Here is how you can do it for next to free.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/11062883/How-to-Cultivate-Indigenous-Microorganisms

Although it does not have a cool label.
The label has to be worth at least $300 all by itself.

Apply compost tea, and collect EM's, and you can save like I don't know $400!

 

[OrganicOzarks]

And where do they get them?

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/474628780/Microbes_for_Soil_Improvement.html

http://www.alibaba.com/product/tw10...anism_Agents__Effective_Microorganism_B_.html

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/603228716/SUKAAgri_Nutri_Biological_agent_for_absorption.html

96 types of microbes – wheweeee!
http://www.alibaba.com/product-free...bacteria_VS_34_Comprehensive_biochemical.html



BTW, I don't know how responsible it is to include Bt in a general use inoculation. Is that not one reason we criticize Monsanto?

I agree with you on the BT. Seems a bit weird to me.

 

[Avinash.miles]

thanks for the info watts,
hope its accurate,
where did u get it?

 

[GeorgeSmiley]

This is what's in Sea Green

Bacteria-
-Bacillus pumilis - 2,300,000 CFU/gm
has been shown to inhibit certain pathogenic fungi
-Bacillus coagulans - 2,300,000 CFU/gm
phosphorus solubilizer
-Bacillus megaterium - 2,300,000 CFU/gm
phosphorus solubilizer
-Bacillus licheniformis - 2,300,000 CFU/gm
digests proteins in the soil, especially feathermeal
-Bacillus azotoformans - 2,300,000 CFU/gm
reduces excess nitrates in the soil
-Bacillus thuringiensis - 2,500,000 CFU/gm
acts as a larvacide of certain pests
-Paenibacillus polymyxa - 2,300,000 CFU/gm
fixes atmospheric nitrogen into a plant usable form
-Paenibacillus durum - 2,300,000 CFU/gm
converts ammonia into nitrates
-Azotobacter chroococcum - 2,500,000 CFU/gm
powerful nitrogen fixer
-Pseudomonas aureofaceans - 2,200,000 CFU/gm
thrives in clay soils

If you bought this product from PHC whether its the bio pack or compete plus etc, you would get 6-20 times concentration of these per gram. PHC bio is around 16,000,000 cfu/gram and they have an AG product that gets you into the 50,000,000 rage per species and can find it for 125 a gallon or so. Plus trichoderma, plus streptomace.....

So diluted anywhere from 6-20 times and the price is triple to quadruple other products that are similar or identical.

You can buy PHC turf saver 50lbs for $200 they also have a product in the 50,000,000 cfu/gram range.

http://www.greenislanddistributors....rs-nutrients-_plant-health-care-products-.htm

PHC Compete PLus

MICROBIAL CONTENT 311 Million cfu/g
50 Million cfu/g Bacillus azotofixans
50 Million cfu/g Bacillus licheniformis
50 Million cfu/g Bacillus megaterium
50 Million cfu/g Bacillus polymyxa
50 Million cfu/g Bacillus subtilis
50 Million cfu/g Bacillus thuringiensis
1 Million cfu/g Streptomyces griseoviridis
10 Million cfu/g Trichoderma harzianum
MICROBIAL NUTRIENTS 66%
Maltodextrin . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 48%
Yeast extract. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5%
Soluble Seaweed extract
(derived from Ascophyllum nodosum). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13%
HUMIC ACIDS (derived from Leonardite) 17%
INERT INGREDIENTS 17%
Precipitated silica . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8%
Leonardite Extract (other than humic acids). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6%
Polyethylene glycol

PHC Bio Pack

7.5 Billion cfu/Lb Bacillus licheniformis
7.5 Billion cfu/Lb Bacillus megaterium
7.5 Billion cfu/Lb Bacillus polymyxa
7.5 Billion cfu/Lb Bacillus subtilis
7.5 Billion cfu/Lb Bacillus thuringiensis
7.5 Billion cfu/Lb Paenibacillus azotofixans
HUMIC ACIDS (derived from Leonardite) 31%
MICROBIAL NUTRIENTS 43%
13.5% Maltodextrin
24% Seaweed extract (derived from Ascophyllum nodosum)
5.5% Yeast extract
INERT INGREDIENTS 26%
14% Leonardite extract (other than humic acids)
11% Precipitated silica
1% Polyethylene glycol

Let me ask you, do you think they dilute it and charge huge amounts of money because they put in research and trials etc and the product originates from them, or do you think its likely that they are the "end-user" in the chain and like nearly every hydro store nutrient and additive, is bare minimum for the most money and most are derived (re-branded) from other companies products? And then spend 90% of their research budget on packaging and advertising?

GS

 

[SeaMaiden]

Gee, is it me, or do I see Bacillus thuringiensis in all those lists?

The maltodextrin is what's really caught my attention here, too. FOOD!

 

[GeorgeSmiley]

Why would a biological larvacide in a mix of biologicals bother anyone? We're not talking genetically modified plants with cry genes exuding BT....., just a bio larvacide. Doesnt bother me a bit but Id like to know which Subspecies,

kurstaki
Lepidoptera
aizawai
Lepidoptera
morrisonib
israelensis

Thats really the kicker...... its not necessary and unless its israelensis or kurstaki, it doesnt relate to us. We put it on our plants with gnatrol and microbe lift and spray K on plants for caterpillars. The fact thats its in there, to me, is what really tells me this is a re-bag.


If you go on ebay and search bacillus (any) and trichoderma, youll find a couple guys selling these bulk by the Oz and LB

GS