Gary Johnson 2012. Seems a bit more...'stable' to me
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Ron Paul 2012!!! Your thoughts on who we should pick for our "Cause"?
- Thread starter SacredBreh
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In a $7 trillion dollar contraction? Not as much as you might think.
I never supported the last 30 plus years of policies for the rich. But I wouldn't choose a remedy that's quite possibly worse than the problem.
You know if I'm not mistaken, hasn't the fed been audited to the point we discovered secret loans to big banks?
It's a recession on top of 30 years of supply-side rip off. Also stolen are decades of regulations in place because of the last time we got ripped-off-by-the-same-folks-ripping-us-off-now.
Ever heard of starve-the-beast economics? It's not really philosophy, it's more like so-called small government lawmakers attempting to break what they refuse to manage.
Did you not like the answer?
Need more? I haven't decided. But for whatever purposes you choose to fulfill, pick one and we'll wing it.
Don't have to punch holes with Ron. Just pointed out reality and asked how it all works in Ron's world.
Well let's see.
In the Newt thread I've posted both disparaging and non-disparaging articles and included some personal comments. I disagree with almost as many of Newt's ideas as Ron Paul's. The difference with Newt is he doesn't propose sinking the ship to raise it again. Or not raise it?Ron has said that he doesn't waste time with numbers, it's the ideas that matter. The first thing that comes to mind is, "How much contraction doesn't matter?" But then numbers do matter because he'll cut a trillion the first year. Ever cut something for the sake of and realized you went too far? Far enough to render the net unusable?
Outside his base, Ron's economics philosophy is the significant hurdle for the general electorate. My opinion of course.
Yeah, I mentioned a candidate who also advocates reform. But it ain't that guy's thread so I don't harp on the mofo.
Probably wouldn't vote tomorrow. But I keep few secrets from folks behind the keyboard.
See if you can narrow the odds. I'd like to see Citizens United and it's precursor overturned by constitutional amendment. I'd like to see revenues returned to Clinton rates and Wall Street Bank regulations returned to pre-CFM act. Then I'd like to see the decades of industrial and financial deregulation reviewed and returned with necessary enforcement to prosecute fraud and crime.
I don't happen to see anybody looking to do all that right now. So I'll end up voting for somebody I consider is the lesser of economic destroyers.
Don't worry. I'm not going to copy all the posts that clearly show you're biased.
Alright asshole, who the fuck you voting for?
That's typical of the relevancy I've been getting. Another thing that's funny, a half dozen peeps asking a half dozen questions (a half-dozen different times) and nada cares to look at anything more than the post they're typing on top of. Line your interrogates up and establish some order. Y'all got the chaos factory going full tilt.
I guess you've wrapped it up.
S
Smoke Buddy
Factiod: There is only $1.001 Trillion in actual US currency in existance as of November 2011 the majority of which is held outside the US. The rest is on accounting ledgers/cds/etc. When you talk about backing currency your talking paper money only. Even if there is no change its the same difference if there ever was a run on the banks there isnt enough paper money in existance to either cover our IOUs or drain our gold reserves (@ todays gold price) but that would mean a meltdown anyway and a complete loss of value of gov bonds etc. The US has about 6000 tons of gold (supposedly) about 2X what any other country holds.
Go Ron Paul!
Happy New Year!
Go Ron Paul!
Happy New Year!
I've been reading about Dr. Paul lately. I like some of his positions regarding the use of our military to fight proxy wars overseas and other topics such as border security and ending the war on drugs.
When I looked through Dr. Paul's stock portfolio, I began to understand why he is such a perma bear...His stock portfolio will go through the roof (at least at first) if some of the things he wants to accomplish come to fruition. His portfolio is heavily weighted (around 60%) towards precious metal mining stocks. He also has a couple of funds that are short US stocks.
Before saying whether or not RP would be the best candidate based solely on his stance on the war on drugs, I would love for someone to answer these questions for me, please:
Why is Dr. Paul betting against our country while at the same time saying he's going to save our economy? How does Dr. Paul propose to institute precious metals as currency? Can any RP supporters name a country right now anywhere on the face of the earth that has gold as it's currency? Say RP ended the FED and instituted a gold standard, is there even enough gold in the ground to accomplish this for an economy the size of the United States?
Of course, Dr. Paul has been espousing the same thing since the Nixon administration with his boogeyman being inflation of the dollar. What Dr. Paul fails to realize is that owning PMs/PM mining stocks won't do jack to save him (or us) from inflation. If you remember the inflation of the 1980s and what happened to PM prices (especially silver) at that time, you know what I'm talking about.
I wish I could run around the country pumping my portfolio while "fighting the good fight" for the American people. I wonder how many of those PM miners RP owns are based in the US...
Here is just part of Dr. Paul's very balanced portfolio:
HB.
When I looked through Dr. Paul's stock portfolio, I began to understand why he is such a perma bear...His stock portfolio will go through the roof (at least at first) if some of the things he wants to accomplish come to fruition. His portfolio is heavily weighted (around 60%) towards precious metal mining stocks. He also has a couple of funds that are short US stocks.
Before saying whether or not RP would be the best candidate based solely on his stance on the war on drugs, I would love for someone to answer these questions for me, please:
Why is Dr. Paul betting against our country while at the same time saying he's going to save our economy? How does Dr. Paul propose to institute precious metals as currency? Can any RP supporters name a country right now anywhere on the face of the earth that has gold as it's currency? Say RP ended the FED and instituted a gold standard, is there even enough gold in the ground to accomplish this for an economy the size of the United States?
Of course, Dr. Paul has been espousing the same thing since the Nixon administration with his boogeyman being inflation of the dollar. What Dr. Paul fails to realize is that owning PMs/PM mining stocks won't do jack to save him (or us) from inflation. If you remember the inflation of the 1980s and what happened to PM prices (especially silver) at that time, you know what I'm talking about.
I wish I could run around the country pumping my portfolio while "fighting the good fight" for the American people. I wonder how many of those PM miners RP owns are based in the US...
Here is just part of Dr. Paul's very balanced portfolio:
- Agnico Eagle Mines
- Alumina Common
- Anglo Gold Ashanti Ltd.
- BrigusGold Corp. Com MPV (formerly Apollo Gold Corp)
- Barrick Gold Corp.
- Claude Research Inc
- Coeur D'Alene Minds Corp.
- Gold Corp Inc
- El Dorado Gold Corp.
- IAM Gold Corp.
- Kinross
- Lexam Explorations Inc.
- Mag Silver Corp.
- Metalline Mining Co.
- Mutual Securities Inc.
- Newmont Mining Corp.
- Pan American Silver
- Petrol Oil and Gas
- Silver Wheaton Corp
- Virginia Mines Inc.
- Vista Gold Corp.
- Viterra Inc
- Wesdome Gold Mines Ltd.
- Allied Nevada Gold Corp.
- Hecla Mining Co.
HB.
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Read that and tell me how we can continue down the same path. Do you not see the Partial Gov't Audit of the FED??? READ IT!
He isn't coming and in saying the FED is dead. He will end the printing of the money the devaluation of our currency. I see that as a much better option than printing that extra 1.3 trillion Obama just asked for and continuing to destroy our money. Then he will take our money back from the thieves that took it. VIOLA, -14.5 Trillion + 16 Trillion = 1.5 Trillion! No more national debt......That is much closer to a solution that I have seen from any other candidate. Not that any of them want to touch the FED. They own the TV stations and news media......I wonder why Ron Paul can't get a fair shake.
How else would he help the economy? He would end personal income taxes. He would end the capital gains taxes. He would lower the Corporate tax rate from 35% to 15%. Switzerland is where they are all based now and that is their tax rate.
How else would he help the economy? Ending the Drug war.
That would save billions for the Federal, State, and Local Governing bodies. Ron Paul would free over 1 million innocent prisoners. He would.
I wanna know what casino took Ron Paul's bet against America! Who? Where? What? When? Why? How? Do you say this with no evidence????
RON PAUL is heavily invested in gold and silver! Why because he understands the system and practices what he preaches. If you had been reading Ron Paul very long then you could had done the exact same thing. I would be shocked if he didn't invest in gold and silver. The fact that you try to imply that since he has been investing in gold since $35 an ounce and that is why he wants the gold standard is about as short sighted and as biased of a statement that could ever be made. You are very disrespectful to imply such a sinister plot! WHEN THE SINISTER PLOT IS THE FED, OPEN YOUR EYES! 16,000,000,000,000 IN BACK DOOR LOANS AND SOME ARE LISTED ABOVE!
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It's pretty easy to find. Do a search for Rydex-Ursa Mutual Fund and Prudent Bear Mutual Fund, both funds are part of Dr. Paul's portfolio and are bearish on the American stock market, hence the economy.
I've been very respectful, actually. Dr. Paul is betting against the US and his bets have been paying off lately. He is a perpetual doom and gloomer and PMs are not the investment that people like Dr. Paul think they are. Again, I would love for someone who actually understands economics to answer the following for me, please:
Why is Dr. Paul betting against our country while at the same time saying he's going to save our economy? How does Dr. Paul propose to institute precious metals as currency? Can any RP supporters name a country right now anywhere on the face of the earth that has gold as it's currency? Say RP ended the FED and instituted a gold standard, is there even enough gold in the ground to accomplish this for an economy the size of the United States?
Thanks,
HB.
A: if investing in PM is "betting against America" then paying taxes is "a patriotic duty" and war protesters "hate the troops"
B: Im no gold standard advocate however,Dr Paul does not advocate walking round with baggies full o black sand and digis to conduct business.
One needs to realize gold is as ea
sily manipulated into fiat as numbers...
I would suggest you read the good doctors actual plan for the answers that apply and to realize some of your questions are not relevant.
So whom do you suggest we elect for "our cause"?
B: Im no gold standard advocate however,Dr Paul does not advocate walking round with baggies full o black sand and digis to conduct business.
One needs to realize gold is as ea
sily manipulated into fiat as numbers...
I would suggest you read the good doctors actual plan for the answers that apply and to realize some of your questions are not relevant.
So whom do you suggest we elect for "our cause"?
I just happen to listen him address this on Freedom Watch. When asked a time-line for a gold standard he said that would be way, way down the road. He does not vision the gold stores of the past where you could trade paper money for gold or silver at market value. He talked about checking accounts back by gold and such....but his bottom line is the FED has to go and we just can't let them print more debt, I mean money. He visions both paper money and a gold system. I myself would like to hear more about his plans.
Ron Paul is for allowing a competing currency with the dollar, that is all. He knows he can't get rid of the fed overnight and he can't switch the usd to a gold standard overnight either.
All he wants is an alternative currency backed by gold or silver that competes with the dollar. Once this is on place the usd will slowly fade into uselessness, this is the transition period.
Personally I think the monetary system presented in the documentary "money changers" is more viable and beneficial than having a pm backed currency. PMs can be manipulated just like regular currency by the hoarders, although the regular currency is manipulated by only a select few at the fed. The guy from "money changers" suggests using a fiat currency that is controlled by the congress. This would mean that all the money congress spends doesn't have to be re-paid to private banksters, they can print and spend and only incur inflation. As it stands now, we incur inflation and debt of which the end point is total ownage by private bankers.
There has been no real audit of the gold reserves in the usa in a very long time, there is huge opposition when this gets brought up. Ron Paul has introduced a bill to audit the gold reserves and the main opposition said the few million it would cost would be a waste of money, lol. As if knowing how much gold we have is not worth knowing at all.
All he wants is an alternative currency backed by gold or silver that competes with the dollar. Once this is on place the usd will slowly fade into uselessness, this is the transition period.
Personally I think the monetary system presented in the documentary "money changers" is more viable and beneficial than having a pm backed currency. PMs can be manipulated just like regular currency by the hoarders, although the regular currency is manipulated by only a select few at the fed. The guy from "money changers" suggests using a fiat currency that is controlled by the congress. This would mean that all the money congress spends doesn't have to be re-paid to private banksters, they can print and spend and only incur inflation. As it stands now, we incur inflation and debt of which the end point is total ownage by private bankers.
There has been no real audit of the gold reserves in the usa in a very long time, there is huge opposition when this gets brought up. Ron Paul has introduced a bill to audit the gold reserves and the main opposition said the few million it would cost would be a waste of money, lol. As if knowing how much gold we have is not worth knowing at all.
Nixon is to blame. He took us off the gold standard which allowed the printing of unlimited amounts of CASH backed by nothing. Other countries saw this and did the same exact thing. Soon just about everyone did this. All within my lifetime. This will be the destruction of our economy, the worlds economy. Pretty much the bottom line. The good Doctor will lay the steps to get us back to the GS. Paper money is here..we all use it...it gets us what we want. As long as banks except it, it has worth. It's not going away. But just imagine seeing a $100 Gold Certificate. Open up a savings account that is backed by gold or silver...you think gold prices will crash or something-then just convert your account back to regular currency. You now have a choice. Trust your money to the fucking banks or put your cash into gold/silver.
It's interesting how if one looks at the relevant economic data and draws negative conclusions you are stigmatized as a "doomer". The economic evidence clearly suggests that a secular bear cycle is here and has been for a while. Place your bets accordingly.
As '11 Ends, 11 Charts Of 11 Disturbing 11 Year Trends
As we pop the corks of our proverbial champagne this weekend with an eye to a better year ahead, perhaps it is worth thinking about these 11 incredible trends that have evolved in a rather disturbing manner over the last 11 years. As John Lohman points out, the 21st century has not been pretty for ongoing centrally planned attempts to defer the 30 year overdue mean reversion.
In one interview when Dr. Paul was asked if he would end the fed he said, "The Fed is going to end themselves." I agree with him. No country has ever escaped the consequences of abusing fiat currency like we are doing right now. The market will reprice gold as it sees fit. It's doing it right now.
There are none. Name one country that has monetized their debt and not ended up destroying their currency.
Rephrase the question as "Say the market ended the Fed and instituted a gold standard...." The answer is no. That's why it's called a currency crisis.
I'm leaning towards what Sam said. Fiat currency controlled by congress. A non-debt based fiat currency competing against other metal based currencies or fiat. It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.
He's betting against the crooked system not the American people.
If you look at precious metals (gold and silver) they have been on the rise since 2001. Dr. Paul, coming from the school of Austrian economics naturally believes gold and silver are money. You have to understand the bigger picture before you can know why someone like Dr. Paul is heavily invested in PM. For 5000 years gold and silver have been money. Our money was gold and silver. Why? Because you can't just print gold and silver. Now lets go back to 1913 when the Federal Reserve act was passed. This gave the power to issue the currency into the hands of a private bank. Now the reason given for this was to prevent depressions, how ironic. Now during this time it was rare for people to carry paper money. The ratio of gold to silver was I think something like 20-1. So the buying power of 20 ounces of silver was the same as one ounce of gold. Now to put into perspective the buying power of gold and silver compared to the Federal Reserve Note. $1 US Silver Dollar from 1913 has the buying power of $30 today. A $20 gold double eagle has the buying power of $1650 today. Also remember during the great depression in 1933 the government made gold illegal and confiscated it from the public. They gave you a certain price for your gold for a short period of time. After they harvested the gold from the citizens they then revalued it. There's a lot more to this history but this is a quick response so I'm not getting into too much detail you can read about the history if your interested. The reason paper money was accepted is because it use to represent a reciept for gold or silver.If you held a gold or silver certificate at anytime you could go to any bank and redeem that piece of paper for physical gold or silver coin. When gold was made illegal you could only get silver coin for your receipt (silver certificate). After WWII The US was a very wealthy nation with a currency backed by gold and coins made of silver, copper and nickle. We were an industrial power house that produce the finest quality goods in the world. Most nations pegged their currencies to the dollar because it was so stable and began using the US Dollar as the worlds reserve currency. Countries hold large reserves of US Dollars for trade because the dollar was as good as gold. In 1964 the governtment stopped using silver as our coinage. So now those silver certificates were useless and were phased out by the federal reserve note. For the next few years the US mint produced silver coins dated 1964 so the public wouldn't get alarmed and it would be a slow transition to the copper-nickle clad money system. Obviously certain people were smart and started to hoard the silver coins. Here's a quick perspective on the buying power of silver. In 1964 gallon of gas was .30 cents three silver dimes from 1964. The price today is around $3.26/gal 87 octane. One silver dime from 1964 is worth $2.01 melt today. So gas was around $6 a gallon in 1964. In 1973 Nixon took the US dollar off the gold standard and turned our currency into a fiat paper currency. So now we are here almost 40 years later and we are trillions in debt and our money is just paper really worth nothing. Plus all the trillions countries are holding as reserves that no one ever thinks about.
In 1980 PM prices, especially silver, went through the roof due to the Hunt brothers attempt to corner the silver market. We are living in a completely different world than in 1980, 40% of all silver mined every year now is used in cell phones and other electronic devices. The solar panel industry has been utilizing silvers unique properties and has started to gobble up a large chunk of the silver market. Silver is not recycled either so its being burned up. It's not worth it to recycle yet. Silver is used in more patents than any other material known to man. 1% of the population holds physical silver. Honestly I can go on for days with facts. If you adjust the highs of 1980 for inflation, for example the $50/ounce silver high equates to $135 today so we are no where near the 1980 high of $50. Plus all the debt we have now and all the industrial demand today how is the price so low? I'd say silver, gold and mining stocks are a good investment. The ETF's SLV and GLD I believe are highly manipulated so stay away from those.The gold to silver ratio today is like 56-1. Here's another fun fact. Almost all of the gold ever discovered by man is still here and is constantly being recycled, the same can't be said for silver. If our money was still made of silver and backed by gold our nation would hold wealth not fiat paper.
Ron Paul wants to take the power to issue the currency out of the hands of the private federeal reserve bank, give the power back to the treasury where the government can issue it debt free backed by gold. I don't know if there are any country's on a gold standard since the US dollar was considered as good as gold for so long. The Swiss were talking about switching back to a gold standard. If gold were to be monetized it will be worth a lot more. I'd write more but I gotta run.
As a Ron Paul supporter, I figured you would have the answers instead of telling me to go read his "plan." In fact, it sounds to me like you can't answer the questions at all. His betting against America has to do with the two funds he is invested in which I mentioned earlier, but in your haste to post a response, you failed to even acknowledge them. By the by, betting on PMs isn't betting against the dollar, it's betting against paper currency, period. Be it the franc or the dollar or the peso.
As to the relevance of my questions, I think they're all very relevant, thank you. Just because you've bought what he's selling you doesn't mean that his stance on fiscal policy is something that shouldn't be questioned. His motives may not be as clear as you assume. I always worry about people who think one man/politician is going to be able to solve our current problems (ala Obama). No one seems to want to question his motives and that's scary.
The guy walks on water because he wants to end the drug war. His policies, from what I can gather, will deflate the economy to such an extent that all his PM bets will be essentially worthless.
When someone asks questions, those questions are called "irrelevant?" LOL. Ok.
HB.
Actually, the plan was crafted to contain a group of banks both public and private. 1907 was the reason this even came about. It was initially thought that having a central bank would allow the government to take action on monetary issues which would come up from time to time instead of just sitting idly by doing nothing.
Silver closed at 27.86 and Gold closed at 1567/oz last I checked. Not sure where you're getting those numbers from.
And why did it do that? I already know, just want to hear your take.
We were pretty much the only producer of goods at the time. Which is why other nations began to peg to the dollar. WWII had quite an effect on the world economy at the time.
Yes. And what happened to the price of silver on March 27, 1980?
Ok, read this: http://pubs.usgs.gov/circ/c1196n/c1196n.pdf
Oh, you mean the high brought about by PM manipulation via the Hunt Bros?
Because it hasn't all been pulled out of the ground yet? In other words, the supply is more than enough to keep up with demand.
Again, is there enough physical gold for the treasury to back it's currency with?
There aren't and there's a reason for that which has nothing to do with the dollar.
Worth a lot more what? Fiat dollars?
HB.
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