Ron Paul 2012!!! Your thoughts on who we should pick for our "Cause"?

[DiscoBiscuit]

Feudalism is a class system. Ron Paul emphasizes property rights. Kinda makes me feel like I have to have property to be as rightful as Ron Paul. I know he also expresses individual rights but what's with the property stuff?

I mean, anybody can reasonably assimilate that "property rights" has something to do with beefs between the property owner and the state. But there's no disclaimer that says Joe Landowner's rights aren't going to end up righter than mine.

Our founding father's were rich landowners, bankers and slave owners. Some didn't want the unwashed to have a say in government. I wouldn't put all that on Ron Paul but the whole "property rights" discussion seems to suggest that deadly force shouldn't be questioned - as long as I shoot em on my property.

All this shopoting peeps on yer property came about when SPLC and ACLU started collecting Ron Paul's newsletters. Between two locations they managed to archive the whole thing. One newsletter in particular states that a certain class of human being is surprisingly fleet of foot and after they try to steal your car, you can't catch em. And what's this? The newsletter discusses getting away with shooting people.

So to me, the "property rights" argument has some connection to being able to use deadly force on your property w/o having to face nagging investigations over the use of deadly force. IMO, that would effectively make property owners more righteous than everybody else.

 

[itisme]

Feudalism is a class system. Ron Paul emphasizes property rights. Kinda makes me feel like I have to have property to be as rightful as Ron Paul. I know he also expresses individual rights but what's with the property stuff?

http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/PropertyRights.html

One of the most fundamental requirements of a capitalist economic system—and one of the most misunderstood concepts—is a strong system of property rights. For decades social critics in the United States and throughout the Western world have complained that “property” rights too often take precedence over “human” rights, with the result that people are treated unequally and have unequal opportunities. Inequality exists in any society. But the purported conflict between property rights and human rights is a mirage. Property rights are human rights

The definition, allocation, and protection of property rights comprise one of the most complex and difficult sets of issues that any society has to resolve, but one that must be resolved in some fashion. For the most part, social critics of “property” rights do not want to abolish those rights. Rather, they want to transfer them from private ownership to government ownership.Some transfers to public ownership (or control, which is similar) make an economy more effective. Others make it less effective. The worst outcome by far occurs when property rights really are abolished (see tragedy of the commons).

A property right is the exclusive authority to determine how a resource is used, whether that resource is owned by government or by individuals. Society approves the uses selected by the holder of the property right with governmental administered force and with social ostracism. If the resource is owned by the government, the agent who determines its use has to operate under a set of rules determined, in the United States, by Congress or by executive agencies it has charged with that role.

Private property rights have two other attributes in addition to determining the use of a resource. One is the exclusive right to the services of the resource. Thus, for example, the owner of an apartment with complete property rights to the apartment has the right to determine whether to rent it out and, if so, which tenant to rent to; to live in it himself; or to use it in any other peaceful way. That is the right to determine the use. If the owner rents out the apartment, he also has the right to all the rental income from the property. That is the right to the services of the resources (the rent).

Finally, a private property right includes the right to delegate, rent, or sell any portion of the rights by exchange or gift at whatever price the owner determines (provided someone is willing to pay that price). If I am not allowed to buy some rights from you and you therefore are not allowed to sell rights to me, private property rights are reduced. Thus, the three basic elements of private property are (1) exclusivity of rights to choose the use of a resource, (2) exclusivity of rights to the services of a resource, and (3) rights to exchange the resource at mutually agreeable terms.

 

[draztik]

Yeah, but instead explain why ron paul isn't a fan of feudalism. its how you go about it that matters.

i agree with you, though.

Your a good dude bro. Glad to have people like you contributing the positive vibes. Sorry if I was too harsh on DB, I guess I need to work on my people skills.

 

[bentom187]

Feudalism is a class system. Ron Paul emphasizes property rights. Kinda makes me feel like I have to have property to be as rightful as Ron Paul. I know he also expresses individual rights but what's with the property stuff?

I mean, anybody can reasonably assimilate that "property rights" has something to do with beefs between the property owner and the state. But there's no disclaimer that says Joe Landowner's rights aren't going to end up righter than mine.

Our founding father's were rich landowners, bankers and slave owners. Some didn't want the unwashed to have a say in government. I wouldn't put all that on Ron Paul but the whole "property rights" discussion seems to suggest that deadly force shouldn't be questioned - as long as I shoot em on my property.

your property includes yourself ...... if you dont own it who does.

 

[Rukind]

Your a good dude bro. Glad to have people like you contributing the positive vibes. Sorry if I was too harsh on DB, I guess I need to work on my people skills.

I am not a person that picks a side. I just go with what I believe. I mentioned earlier that DB and zymos should stop with the name calling so I have to speak up about it regardless if i agree with them or not.

We all have something in common on this message board and I think that we should all respect each other regardless of our views.

Thanks man. I am glad my vibes are positive

 

[itisme]

Sorry if I was too harsh on DB, I guess I need to work on my people skills.

He was begging for it. I just wouldn't chat with him/her. We have been trying really hard not to name call though.

3 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
Wow.. in 4 minutes.

I wish you guys that haven't researched UN Agenda 21 would look into it further.
It is all about our land and property rights, they have created a 21 century theft program...see the Wildlife Project with it too. Please.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Are there different interpeations of progressive theory? Rhetorical question.....

Sure there are different interpretations. I'm just not used to the one person association. I'm happy that Ron Paul isn't considered a flip flopper but degrees of philosophy make me wonder which one will decide policy.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Who is this they that you speak of?

Reference the part you edited.

It sounds just like somebody describing the Illiminati to me. I actaully agree with nearly100% of this seaction. Some say the 1%, Some say the Elite, others that fight it say they are the Tea Party.....They try to divide us however they can. The they you speak of may not be who you think they are.....I admit I could be wrong.

Could be.

 

[itisme]

Itisme

Who is this they that you speak of? It sounds just like somebody describing the Illiminati to me. I actaully agree with nearly100% of this seaction. Some say the 1%, Some say the Elite, others that fight it say they are the Tea Party.....They try to divide us however they can. The they you speak of may not be who you think they are.....I admit I could be wrong.

Reference the part you edited.

Could be.

I admited I could be wrong, your ego prohibits you the same capability.

I will be happy to be wrong on the FEMA Camps more than anything.

I think the war on drugs is legit. Medical Marijuana is a bunch if crap made up by pot head, stoners, and kids.
The terrorist only hate that we are free and we should maintain all current wars plus help out in Syria and Libya.
We should fight Iran. Iraq was pure brilliance.
They FED/IMF which are the banker my detractors on here hate too. They love us, for being sheep.
DHS and DEA are my buds, I trust them all with my life. They really really care.
FEMA throws the best parties, they went nation wide, next the World.
EPA and FDA are some of the Federal Gov'ts finest work. Can your say outdoor RAVE No weed tough, to DANGEROUS.
FDA is doing a jam up job with prescription drugs. The fact that they are overdosing has nothing to do with the adictiveness and they suppress all of the uses for POT and prescribe opiates.

Are you aware that a CPA can't own a single share of COKE stock and audit COKE. Not even my wife or kids.
However a Dr. can prescribe you/all drugs daily and never even have to disclose which BIG PHARMA he is invested in.
They can own any PHARMA stocks. It just seems there could be conflict of interest that should at least be disclosed.

I am just saying that I prefer to choose for myself and if I have be dictated to by some insane laws let them remain Local. NO need to for one mistake on a Nation or World.

 

[ShroomDr]

8. Our systems of taxation, already stretched to the limit to provide services will be threatened with collapse in the attempt to imprison all the people who will be convicted and require incarceration.

Taxes are lower now than they were in the 90's, 80's 70's 60's, 50's 40's should i continue?

You are falling trap to the 'chicken little' 'the sky is falling' 'if we rattle the markets enough, we can force austerity' noise that the rich bankers have been selling YOU (Its your NWO).

Once again, you dont understand politics, and youre so far behind you think youre in first place.



So when were taxes low?

The Gilded Age!

Which was only gilded if your name was Carnegine, Roosevelt, Hearst, Rothschild, etc.

 

[ShroomDr]

I think the war on drugs is legit. Medical Marijuana is a bunch if crap made up by pot head, stoners, and kids.

Says a guy who probably never had chemotherapy.


Youre clown shoes.

 

[Rukind]

Taxes are lower now than they were in the 90's, 80's 70's 60's, 50's 40's should i continue?

You are falling trap to the 'chicken little' 'the sky is falling' 'if we rattle the markets enough, we can force austerity' noise that the rich bankers have been selling YOU (Its your NWO).

Once again, you dont understand politics, and youre so far behind you think youre in first place.



So when were taxes low?

The Gilded Age!

Which was only gilded if your name was Carnegine, Roosevelt, Hearst, Rothschild, etc.

There are many things that I do not understand, like this post.. I really dont get half of it. Chicken little? Falling skies? I am so far behind? of what? I did not know we were competing.

That entire post was about drug prohibition. The tax thing was very minor. Only that it cost a lot of money to put people in prison for non violent crimes such as getting busted with pot. I feel our taxes are stretched to the limit, but that is entirely not the point of that comment.

I think thats what your talking about, I have no idea..

 

[SacredBreh]

Took me over 3 hours to catch up. I try to read and watch everything everyone posts because to disagree or agree I have to know where they are coming from and how it relates to the views I hold for the moment. The reason I say for the moment is because the only thing I am certain of is that I am certain of nothing. All new information has to be thought about, researched, and assimilated before I know what I think about it or what position I take.

One thing I can say is that the last 5 pages of the thread were a lot better than the baiting, arguing and such that were prior.

I wish I had more time in the day to spend but I do my best and post when I think it is important.

Peace

 

[zymos]

I dont care if they are greedy as long as they have the same regulations as I do. I want them to be taxed the same way I am.

Well guess what? They aren't.

Tell me how Ron Paul plans to fix that situation. Does he plan to raise corporate tax rates?
Rhetorical question- he believes corporations are already paying too much taxes and wants to cut their rate to less than half of what it is now.

 

[zymos]

Taxes are lower now than they were in the 90's, 80's 70's 60's, 50's 40's should i continue?

You are falling trap to the 'chicken little' 'the sky is falling' 'if we rattle the markets enough, we can force austerity' noise that the rich bankers have been selling YOU (Its your NWO).

Once again, you dont understand politics, and youre so far behind you think youre in first place.



So when were taxes low?

The Gilded Age!

Which was only gilded if your name was Carnegine, Roosevelt, Hearst, Rothschild, etc.

Can't rep anymore today, so must quote and say "hear, hear"

 

[zymos]

Educational, detox and rehabilitation facilities must be well funded, staffed and available to anyone who needs them. A drug-user's equivalent of "driving licenses" could be required for the Cat. B (and perhaps also for Cat. A users). This license would take the form of a required course in the effects, dosage, hazards and health risks, followed by a test and the issuance of an ID card similar to that issued to road vehicle operators. The user is then informed of all the pertinent facts. Both categories would require that the user be an adult.

How are all these things going to be funded?
Taxes?

Sounds like a lot of extra bureaucracy. Which government entity will be in charge of this? A new one that Ron Paul will create? That seems highly unlikely, as he wants to ELIMINATE so many departments.

 

[itisme]

So when were taxes low?

Taxes are lower now than they were in the 90's, 80's 70's 60's, 50's 40's should i continue?

All the way to 1913..That's were we need to be. No income tax. It prevents the redistruibution of your own earnings. Think about it, income taxes ruin a free market.

In 1913, the 16th Amendment to the Constitution made the income tax a permanent fixture in the U.S. tax system. The amendment gave Congress legal authority to tax income and resulted in a revenue law that taxed incomes of both individuals and corporations. In fiscal year 1918, annual internal revenue collections for the first time passed the billion-dollar mark, rising to $5.4 billion by 1920. With the advent of World War II, employment increased, as did tax collections—to $7.3 billion. The withholding tax on wages was introduced in 1943 and was instrumental in increasing the number of taxpayers to 60 million and tax collections to $43 billion by 1945.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005921.html

Originally Posted by itisme
I think the war on drugs is legit. Medical Marijuana is a bunch if crap made up by pot head, stoners, and kids

Anybody with a clue knows that was sarcasm but seeing how you detached it from the list it was in, I am sure you know that and only want to start another baseless arguement.

Quote Disco
Says a guy who probably never had chemotherapy.

Says a guy that would point out that CHEMO is a FDA approved treatement/drug. Look into holistic medicine, that is what the Rothchilds kept using as they destroyed holistic medical information, books, and even killed or suppressed the Drs. In other words, the Rothchilds will not use their own medicine but sell it to us while using holistic medicine on themselves.

And that comes from a guy that was blind in one and had cornea transplant that I am very grateful for. I was scared I could lose my eye if I smoke pot so I did some reseach. Some studies showed that is could help my eye heal. I WAS SO HAPPY!

 

[itisme]

Did anybody see any info from the Main Stream Media about the march on the White House?


So Why Are We Sick?
I’ll be brutally honest here so there are no misunderstandings: We get sick because our lack of health is economically profitable for a lot of big companies and shareholders. This includes:

• The food industry with all the ‘designer’ junk foods and beverages that hold no nutritional value and actually make us fat and sick
  

  
• All the polluting industries that fill our lives and bodies with harmful chemicals and toxins
  

  
• The ‘sick care’ industry that figured out long ago that there’s a lot more money to be made in treating symptoms with drugs and surgeries in expensive hospitals than in patient education, prevention and natural medicine.​

There’s a lot of money to be made in making and keeping us sick. As professor Paul Zane Pilzer explains in his best-selling book, The Wellness Revolution: “Incredibly powerful economic forces are preventing people from taking control of their health and actually encouraging them to gain weight – forces so powerful that nothing short of a revolution will be able to stop them.”

Since birth we’ve been bombarded with millions of ads that turn us into happily paying consumers of the very things that make us sick. Now the only way for us to become and stay healthy for life is to train ourselves to see through all the commercial deception and brainwashing, and learn how to be healthy. This is what we teach in the nutritional consultant program at the Global College.
We cannot expect a solution from those who don’t have our best interest at heart. We have to take matters into our own hands. And when we learn how to take care of ourselves and our loved ones with holistic nutrition certification, we learn something equally important at the same time: How to help the other half of the population that is constantly and chronically ill.

 

[greenmatter]

How are all these things going to be funded?
Taxes?

Sounds like a lot of extra bureaucracy. Which government entity will be in charge of this? A new one that Ron Paul will create? That seems highly unlikely, as he wants to ELIMINATE so many departments.

very logical question!

but one that has not been answered in years.

americans are all about no taxes with a shitload of free services that we all "deserve" ........... i don't think i am the only one who sees some math problems with this situation, but nobody EVER seems to have the answer to the situation.

 

[itisme]

The Environmental Protection Agency would see a 30 percent cut; the Food and Drug Administration would see a 40 percent cut; and foreign aid would be zeroed out immediately. He’d also take an ax to Pentagon funding for wars

Appearing on CNN ahead of the speech, Paul was pressed by Wolf Blitzer on how eliminating about 221,000 government jobs across five cabinet departments would boost the economy. He responded: “They’re not productive jobs,” he said.

“You cut government spending, that money goes back to you. You get to spend the money,” Paul said during his speech. “I am absolutely convinced it is the only road to prosperity.”

The federal workforce would be reduced by 10 percent, and the president’s pay would be cut from $400,000 to $39,336 — a level that the Paul document notes is “approximately equal to the median personal income of the American worker.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/66114.html#ixzz1n2CWF9o0

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/66114.htmlsP

This is some of how, it's a good article.

He would also release about 2,000,000 prisoners, most non violent drug offenders. That would save about $50,000.00 X 2,000,000 PER YEAR. Then ending the FEDERAL DRUG was would save at the least BILLIONS every sigle year. I would restructure lots of the power the Gubbynati has gained by taking our rights and puting control meachanims in place like the DEA, FBI, ATF, Local drug police, etc etc...I am just saying. Get on board the Ron Paul Express.