Ron Paul 2012!!! Your thoughts on who we should pick for our "Cause"?

[itisme]

Dismissing facts = no coutner arguement.

Miost kills in the USA = FDA Approved prescription drugs.

They deny all medicinal qualities of Marijuana and classify it as a class 1 drug.
Cocaine is class 2 since it has medicinal qualities, so weed is worse that cocaine.
ACCORDING TO THE FDA that you trust so much...
Weed is more dangerous than METH or COCAINE and your own this site and still trust them?

Schedule 1: High Abuse, No Recognized Medical Use, Lack of Safety- MARY JANE, REALLY? Lack of saftey, not medicinal qualities? Can you hear me now?

http://www.umsl.edu/~keelr/180/classify.html

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Legal Classification: Controlled Substances Act 1990 [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](original 1970)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](http://www.fda.gov/RegulatoryInformation/Legislation/ucm148726.htm)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](DEA listing, See the DEA's Drugs of Abuse, 2011)[/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](The following is only a partial listing. Decisions as to scheduling may also include amount of a particular substance in a preparation, etc.)[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Schedule 1: High Abuse, No Recognized Medical Use, Lack of Safety[/FONT]

• [SIZE=+1]
  [*][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Heroin [/FONT]
  [*][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]LSD [/FONT]
  [*][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]MDMA [/FONT]
  [*][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Marijuana [/FONT]
  [*][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Methaqualone [/FONT][/SIZE]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Schedule 2: High Abuse, Medical Utility, High Dependency Risk[/FONT]

• [SIZE=+1]
  [*][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Opium [/FONT]
  [*][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Morphine [/FONT]
  [*][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Coca [/FONT]
  [*][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Cocaine [/FONT]
  [*][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Methadone[/FONT] [/SIZE]
• [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Methamphetamine[/FONT]

 

[zymos]

Dismissing facts = no coutner arguement.

Bullshit.
I ACCEPT the facts, and argued they do nothing to support your point.



You did break your promise not to engage though...

 

[Rukind]

From your article

"Nearly nine out of ten of those poisonings were caused by prescription drug overdoses, with the chief culprit being opiate-based pain relievers such as Vicodin (hydrocodone), OxyContin and Percocet (oxycodone), codeine, morphine—and let’s not forget Actiq (fentanyl), the infamous berry-flavored lollipop that is 100 times stronger than morphine and—like most opiate analgesics—so overprescribed that only about 10% of its sales come from its original indication to treat cancer pain."

OVERDOSES. Pain medicines are being more widely used, more people are dying.

Which has what to do with the FDA? Nothing whatsoever.

And this is prescription drugs, that, in America, are relatively difficult to get. Sure, plenty of people get their hands on them, but you can't just walk in and buy them over the counter. Because they are REGULATED.

So those stats you posted paint a good case that if overdosing on relatively hard to obtain prescription drugs is NOW the leading cause of accidental death, then LESS regulation is going to lead to even MORE deaths.

So, yeah, good point...

if people die from an over dose.. then good.. 1 less moron on this planet. I have had a few friends die from OD and yes they were morons.

I feel that, if all drugs were legal and regulated by state laws, more people would rather smoke pot than take the opiates. More people would be able to safely take lsd and other psychedelic drugs in a controlled environment. We could also do a lot more scientific research.

It will also save more lives than it would destroy just by hurting the cartel.

ending the war on drugs and regulating all drugs would be a great thing. What you do to your own body is your business. you own it, no one else does. well thats how it should be anyways.

The only crime punishable by prison should be a violent crime. If you steal you should go to jail unless you held someone at gun pont, then prison is a good answer.

here is the real reason for drug prohibition: Owsley stanley said it best. He has plenty of experience with prohibition. His grandpa fought against prohibition in the 20's.

The authorities don't have any valid arguments against pot, their purpose in opposing legalization is to prevent any chinks in the armour, or cracks in the wall of prohibition. All propaganda against drug usage is false and/or misleading.
The authorities likewise don't give a stuff about what any particular drug does. The stance that pot is a dangerous drug of abuse is only a surface excuse, propaganda for the masses. Marijuana was made illegal in the 1937 to remove a threat to the synthetic fibers made by DuPont, just as the same company has connived a ban on Freon, now that their patent on it has run out, under the pretense that it is "harming the ozone"-- a claim completely without any proof whatsoever. DuPont has never had any interest in the welfare of people. The law against LSD was put into place in 1966 primarily by Sen. Thos. Dodd, who set up and put through the law in 1966. The only real function of the drug prohibition is to create a black market trade, otherwise known as "money for nothing".

The addition of any particular drug to the prohibition is a matter of the same policies which will maintain the illegality of all drugs to the bitter end. The drug trade is now the single biggest money operation in the US economy, and the money it produces is used to see to it that the laws will not change. I was told recently that the current value of the drug trade is estimated at $500 billion, a figure which agrees with the statements I heard about the amount of money leaving the US for cocaine in 1980, which was said to be $1 billion/day passing through Miami, at that time the main portal for the trade. Watch them invalidate the plebiscites in Arizona and California for the medical use of pot. I can almost gaurantee that these laws will never be implemented, for the authorities cannot tolerate any "erosion" in the wall of prohibition.

Pot isn't even important to those in the big-money drug trade, except for maintaining a solid wall of prohibition, the same reason I noted above for the uselessness of proving scientific merit for the use of any prohibited drug. Money does indeed drive these things, which is why you have no chance to change anything No one gives a minute's notice to thoughts of "hypocrisy". It isn't a question of what's "good for you" or "what's bad for you". Alcohol is not as good a way to create money-for-nothing as heroin and cocaine (too easy to make at home), plus it was put outside the rules by the repeal of Prohibition. Wm. Bennett, like the current fool, Barry McCaffrey, in charge of the "war on drugs", is only a lackey of the money which runs the US government, ie "Big Business", and the biggest business in the US is drug-running, so give it up...barring a revolution or a new constitution, the US congress will never change the way election financing is structured, and that is one of the most important principles these interests will protect at all costs. This is a serious threat to the social stability and future of the country, so everyone must try to understand the real reasons behind it.

The example provided by the unwillingness of the US Congress to impeach Nixon, and now the statement by members of the House of Representatives that Newt Gingrich's use of political campaign funds to establish a school to teach people how to subvert the system by playing dirty politics is "no worse than jaywalking", shows how far from reality these powerful figures in the government are, and gives us little hope for reform.

 

[itisme]

FDA say Schedule 1: High Abuse, No Recognized Medical Use, Lack of Safety-

MARY JANE, REALLY? Lack of saftey, not medicinal qualities? Can you hear me now?

Miost kills in the USA = FDA Approved prescription drugs.

I consider this support for my point Those that chose to dismiss all the data can only be in on the scam, ignorant, or a comlete ........? They dismiss FEMA, DRONES, & FDA lies.....all for what? So they can call me a conspiracy theorist for posting a bunch of facts they don't want to admit.

 

[SpasticGramps]

I know this is slightly OT, but with the glib attack of Ron Paul as an economic "fear monger" this may lend credence to what he is getting at. Lest we forget. This is a global bread and circuses political problem. Politicians are now everywhere using "meltdown" as their platform for reelection.

The assertion that Ron Paul is "doom sayer" is hilarious, IMO, when you look at what the PM of France has to say in order to get reelected. His platform is based on....if you don't give me another chance the world will meltdown.

Nicolas Sarkozy: I saved France from economic catastrophe

At a rally in Marseille on Sunday, Nicolas Sarkozy launches his campaign for a second term of the presidency Link to this video

Nicolas Sarkozy told his first major rally in his re-election campaign on Sunday that he had saved France from "catastrophe" during the financial crisis and the only way to save the country from economic meltdown was to give him a second term.

Cue Paul Henry Paulson and "tanks in the street".

IMVHO, when you've reached a point in history where most ideological bases platform is based on a "catastrophe" it's a lose, lose situation in the medium term for the majority.

I guess you could call it the Mutually Assured Destruction platform.

We're all Greeks.

EDIT: Read this after my post.

You say our current system will blow up. IMO, I'm not ready to go implosion on a prediction. Little to no middle class under Ron Paul's vision of the past... er, future.

Like I said...not all my prediction..... looks like a lose, lose though

 

[zymos]

if people die from an over dose.. then good.. 1 less moron on this planet.

That doesn't sound very kind RU.

I feel that, if all drugs were legal and regulated by state laws, more people would rather smoke pot than take the opiates.

I highly doubt that even if you gave away free legal weed from the street corners, people would stop using opiates.


I confess I really don't get the state vs. fed thing.
So the FDA is bad because they wont let you buy raw milk, but the Illinois Dept of Food Safety (I made that up- maybe there really is one) would automatically be fine with raw milk, and if they weren't, you all would be cool with that because it was a state making the law rather than the US Govt.?



I used to sell raw goat milk by the way. Wouldn't drink it myself, not cause it was raw, just cause I don't like drinking milk. Made some good raw cheese though. I also think people should be allowed to put whatever they want in their own bodies. It would be also nice to be able to purposefully avoid putting things in their bodies THAT THEY DIDN'T AGREE TO, which is where the regulations are useful.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Dismissing facts = no coutner arguement.

Miost kills in the USA = FDA Approved prescription drugs.

They deny all medicinal qualities of Marijuana and classify it as a class 1 drug.
Cocaine is class 2 since it has medicinal qualities, so weed is worse that cocaine.
ACCORDING TO THE FDA that you trust so much...

I trust that you word battle. Otherwise you would accept the original context. I made no defense of FDA in regard to weed. Your logic suggests that weed should be legal so all greedy profit-makers' drugs should go unregulated. Ain't that special.

Weed is more dangerous than METH or COCAINE and your own this site and still trust them?

I trust you wear blinders, stuff cotton in your ears and flip conspiracy theories as opposed to maintaining a relevant discussion. Yours is the opportunity to persuade those who might consider a genuine discourse. You're not participating.

Schedule 1: High Abuse, No Recognized Medical Use, Lack of Safety- MARY JANE, REALLY? Lack of saftey, not medicinal qualities? Can you hear me now?

http://www.umsl.edu/~keelr/180/classify.html

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Legal Classification: Controlled Substances Act 1990 [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](original 1970)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](http://www.fda.gov/RegulatoryInformation/Legislation/ucm148726.htm)[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](DEA listing, See the DEA's Drugs of Abuse, 2011)[/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](The following is only a partial listing. Decisions as to scheduling may also include amount of a particular substance in a preparation, etc.)[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Schedule 1: High Abuse, No Recognized Medical Use, Lack of Safety[/FONT]

• [SIZE=+1][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Heroin [/FONT][/SIZE]
• [SIZE=+1][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]LSD [/FONT][/SIZE]
• [SIZE=+1][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]MDMA [/FONT][/SIZE]
• [SIZE=+1][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Marijuana [/FONT][/SIZE]
• [SIZE=+1][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Methaqualone [/FONT][/SIZE]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Schedule 2: High Abuse, Medical Utility, High Dependency Risk[/FONT]

• [SIZE=+1][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Opium [/FONT][/SIZE]
• [SIZE=+1][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Morphine [/FONT][/SIZE]
• [SIZE=+1][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Coca [/FONT][/SIZE]
• [SIZE=+1][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Cocaine [/FONT][/SIZE]
• [SIZE=+1][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Methadone[/FONT] [/SIZE]
• [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Methamphetamine[/FONT]

Why do your rebukes drift from original context? None of what you posted is even relevant to the answer you requested. You're in campaign mode.

I say I don't like the weed system but we need something in place for hard drugs. In classic style, you react as if I make no distinction at all. Too easy.

 

[Rukind]

That doesn't sound very kind RU.




I highly doubt that even if you gave away free legal weed from the street corners, people would stop using opiates.


I confess I really don't get the state vs. fed thing.
So the FDA is bad because they wont let you buy raw milk, but the Illinois Dept of Food Safety (I made that up- maybe there really is one) would automatically be fine with raw milk, and if they weren't, you all would be cool with that because it was a state making the law rather than the US Govt.?



I used to sell raw goat milk by the way. Wouldn't drink it myself, not cause it was raw, just cause I don't like drinking milk. Made some good raw cheese though. I also think people should be allowed to put whatever they want in their own bodies. It would be also nice to be able to purposefully avoid putting things in their bodies THAT THEY DIDN'T AGREE TO, which is where the regulations are useful.

Well one of my friends that OD'd wasn't very kind either for leaving 2 children that were under 10 years old. You are a moron if you OD. Addicts are morons too. Thats just how I feel about it. Anyone who jumped out of a window on acid and killed themselves.. yep, moron. People die. its a part of life and sometimes they die over stupid shit.

My dad just died (about a year ago. I see it as a suicide) because of his drinking habbits. He had 6 months to get a liver if he just stopped drinking but he didn't. He also had a 2 year old son.. he is also a moron. He was a drug addict all his life and in the end it was the legal drug that killed him.

I never said people would just stop using opiates, especially if you are already addicted. Most children do harmful drugs because they are not allowed to do it. Also our culture has an influence, such as alcohol. I dont care what people do to their own bodies and why should you? If i wanted to end my life right now, I should be able to. It is my life and I own it. If I want, I will end it. No one is going to tell me otherwise. If I want to take heroin that is my business, no one elses.

It is like this: guns dont kill people, people kill people.. drugs dont kill people, the people kill themselves. dont blame the substance, blame the morons.

The idea of state law, is that the people have more control over it. We dont have that kind of control over the fda.

i also dont drink milk, my diet is strictly carnivore and without carbs. I eat no carbs and milk has sugar. I love cheese and butter, though.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I consider this support for my point Those that chose to dismiss all the data can only be in on the scam, ignorant, or a comlete ........? They dismiss FEMA, DRONES, & FDA lies.....all for what? So they can call me a conspiracy theorist for posting a bunch of facts they don't want to admit.

I never had to stoop to inventing your argument (so I would have one.)

 

[itisme]

Quote:
FDA say Schedule 1: High Abuse, No Recognized Medical Use, Lack of Safety-

MARY JANE, REALLY? Lack of saftey, not medicinal qualities? Can you hear me now?

Quote:
Miost kills in the USA = FDA Approved prescription drugs.

I consider this support for my point Those that chose to dismiss all the data can only be in on the scam, ignorant, or a comlete ........? They dismiss FEMA, DRONES, & FDA lies.....all for what? So they can call me a conspiracy theorist for posting a bunch of facts they don't want to admit.

The Health Freedom Protection Act will force the FDA to at last comply with the commands of Congress, the First Amendment, and the American people by codifying the First Amendment standards adopted by the federal courts. Specifically, the Health Freedom Protection Act stops the FDA from censoring truthful claims about the curative, mitigative, or preventative effects of dietary supplements, and adopts the federal court's suggested use of disclaimers as an alternative to censorship. The Health Freedom Protection Act also stops the FDA from prohibiting the distribution of scientific articles and publications regarding the role of nutrients in protecting against disease."



Some people try to bury the truth with constant lame dimissals. They think they can dismiss for us all, the fact that the FDA censors the TRUTH. They insist I am crazy and I should trust the FDA, EPA, FEMA........WAKE UP, PLEASE.

The WEED, RAW MILK issues are only the tip of the iceburg. Do some research. They suppress the truth all the time. If you look you will see. Same with the EPA and other control mechanisms!

 

[SpasticGramps]

I confess I really don't get the state vs. fed thing.

You are talking about the difference between local (state) and centralized (large land mass) authority dictating law.

There couldn't be a bigger divide.

"All politics is local"

 

[zymos]

I dont care what people do to their own bodies and why should you?

As I said, I don't.

I also think people deserve a choice about what they are putting in their bodies, and that they should be able to have some trust in the safety and integrity of their food and medicine.

I'm not in favor of letting corporations decide what is "safe enough". In my view, a flawed FDA has still done more to protect people's lives than the free market ever will.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I know this is slightly OT, but with the glib attack of Ron Paul as an economic "fear monger" this may lend credence to what he is getting at. Lest we forget. This is a global bread and circuses political problem. Politicians are now everywhere using "meltdown" as their platform for reelection.

The assertion that Ron Paul is "doom sayer" is hilarious, IMO, when you look at what the PM of France has to say in order to get reelected. His platform is based on....if you don't give me another chance the world will meltdown.

Nicolas Sarkozy: I saved France from economic catastrophe

Cue Paul Henry Paulson and "tanks in the street".

IMVHO, when you've reached a point in history where most ideological bases platform is based on a "catastrophe" it's a lose, lose situation in the medium term for the majority.

I guess you could call it the Mutually Assured Destruction platform.

We're all Greeks.

There's only one Ron Paul. IMO, comparing Ron to anybody else is a broad comparison.

Have you read any of his newsletters? I'm not talking about the incendiary stuff he can't manage anything more than raising neck hair. I'm talking about the everyday, "They're coming!... It's ending!... Illuminati!

Even if he didn't brainchild this stuff, we may never learn who did. How do we know these guy(s) wouldn't end up somewhere in Paul's administration?

 

[itisme]

So the FDA is bad because they wont let you buy raw milk, but the Illinois Dept of Food Safety (I made that up- maybe there really is one) would automatically be fine with raw milk, and if they weren't, you all would be cool with that because it was a state making the law rather than the US Govt.?

Since he seems to be seeking some truth here, I will reply.

YES. If the states make it illegal then that is fine, it may suck and we may have to fight that too. It depends on the issue. The main thing is we have 49 other states that are test labs. We just don't need Washington telling us all what to do.

If the Federal Gov't would get out of it, 13 (maybe 17) states would have legalized medicine in the form of MARIJUANA.
Since the FDA says it has NO MEDICINAL value we are all screwed, that is why cetralized power sucks.

If I make a mistake I suffer. If the Federal Gov't makes a mistake, WE ALL SUFFER!

Hence all the SUFFERING and Ron Paul saying we are slipping into a FASCIST STATE.

 

[Rukind]

As I said, I don't.

I also think people deserve a choice about what they are putting in their bodies, and that they should be able to have some trust in the safety and integrity of their food and medicine.

I'm not in favor of letting corporations decide what is "safe enough". In my view, a flawed FDA has still done more to protect people's lives than the free market ever will.

I believe in the free market. Without the free market, we have a black market. I am completely against a black market, but im forced to work with it.

 

[itisme]

a flawed FDA has still done more to protect people's lives than the free market ever will

I could accept a flawed FDA but not a corrupt FDA....which is what we have. I am not happy that this is the case, it just is and I have to deal with it. So I say, VOTE RON PAUL!

 

[zymos]

I believe in the free market. Without the free market, we have a black market. I am completely against a black market, but im forced to work with it.

I don't think the unfettered capitalism thing is working to well- you really want more of it?

Like if we stopped getting in the way of the 1% getting even richer there would be that much more to trickle down on our poor 99% heads?!

 

[itisme]

I don't think the unfettered capitalism thing is working to well- you really want more of it?

We haven't had that for decades if not centuries bro. 1913 and income taxes alone ruin a free market.

Others need not take my rejection seriously, your antagonistic rhetoric and spinning a web of lies are just old hat.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Since he seems to be seeking some truth here, I will reply.

YES. If the states make it illegal then that is fine. We have 49 other states that are test labs.

You had the same thing in the early 20th century where mass production produced mass illness, even death. You act like we've never been there but we have. We have. We said, "We're tired of people getting sick and croaking over greedy profiteers. If you want to sell it here, you have to maintain a safe process and product."

If the Federal Gov't would get out of it, 13 (I tihink, maybe 17) states would have legalized medicine in the form of MARIJUANA.
Since the FDA says it has NO MEDICINAL value we are all screwed, that is why cetralized power sucks.

Unless you're already in a med state, you won't know what your state decides until it's decided. Even if you're in a med state, nothing keeping them from changing their mind. States took away once legal alcohol and the last state didn't return it until the 1960s. Beyond that, hundreds of jurisdictions across the country are still dry.

If I make a mistake I suffer. If the Federal Gov't makes a mistake, WE ALL SUFFER!

Hence all the SUFFERING and Ron Paul saying we are slipping into a FASCIST STATE.

There's another famous Paul ditty. Oh my gawd, we're fascists!.

 

[Rukind]

I don't think the unfettered capitalism thing is working to well- you really want more of it?

Like if we stopped getting in the way of the 1% getting even richer there would be that much more to trickle down on our poor 99% heads?!

I dont care if rich people are rich.. Why should I take the money they made? They got to spend the money or its worthless.

I do care about banks and corporations not being able to fail. That is why the rich people keep getting richer and we get fucked over. It seems like the big corporations no longer have any risk and it makes it impossible for the little guys to move up.


There will always be a black market if there is no free market. Which one do you prefer? I prefer the free market that is regulated by the state where I actually have a chance to make a difference.