Ron Paul 2012!!! Your thoughts on who we should pick for our "Cause"?

[Cojito]

that must be it but the fact that you dont have some witty remarks or bloated comebacks speaks volumes

can't speak for Disco, but i think comparing the cost of milk in 2012 with the desperation of the Weimar Republic circa 1924 is genius. i don't think The Onion could have done it better.

 

[whodare]

can't speak for Disco, but i think comparing the cost of milk in 2012 with the desperation of the Weimar Republic circa 1924 is genius. i don't think The Onion could have done it better.

i dont know if that is a sarcastic comment but it wasnt a comparison it was an example... if you followed the link you see why the germans experienced hyperinflation...

heres a clue

they suspended the convertibility of its currency into gold and borrowed the money to pay back the reparations from ww1

In order to pay the large costs of World War I, Germany suspended the convertibility of its currency into gold when that war broke out. Unlike France, which imposed its first income tax to pay for the war, the German Kaiser and Parliament decided without opposition to fund the war entirely by borrowing,[9] a decision criticised by financial experts like Hjalmar Schacht even before hyperinflation broke out.

kinda like we are borrowing the money for our continuing wars across the globe and in our own country...

funny nixon did the same thing a while ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_Shock

they have been able to keep america busy enough with the latest gadgets and gizmos and jersey shore whores, that they were able to use the US and its army in subverting the sovereignty of most of the countries across the globe...

we are going to have to pay for it eventually




edit: and the bold comment about milk was a joke

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

... heres a clue

they, ended the gold standard and borrowed the money to pay back the reparations from ww1

Where's the clue on how a gold standard would work today? Ron Paul said we might have to consider some type of fractional gold standard and another supporter mentioned "voluntary".

Being that Ron Paul's remedies are rather distinct, "fractional" and or "voluntary" don't seem to gel with "gold standard". But that's just me.

So whodare, how do we implement a gold standard and how is your net worth gonna square on a gold standard? Inquiring minds want to know.

Or - do we know a lot less than we're being told regarding the things Ron Paul really wants to accomplish versus rallying cries?

Remember those newsletters? Two former associates acknowledge that part of those letters actually turned off libertarians. But the real money was coming from the fringe who eat that shit for breakfast.

So what's all the really radical stuff, real policy or just breakfast for the fringe?



Hey, whoody - I managed that who post without taking you on personally Gandhi would be proud.

 

[whodare]

Where's the clue on how a gold standard would work today? Ron Paul said we might have to consider some type of fractional gold standard and another supporter mentioned "voluntary".

Being that Ron Paul's remedies are rather distinct, "fractional" and or "voluntary" don't seem to gel with "gold standard". But that's just me.

So whodare, how do we implement a gold standard and how is your net worth gonna square on a gold standard? Inquiring minds want to know.

well if you had bother to read anything that i had posted you'd realize your grossly misinformed...

he wants to get rid of the law banning a competing currency...
GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT

Thanks to the sole urging of the Downsize DC Army, Rep. Ron Paul has introduced a bill that would bring the above benefits. This bill, called the "Free Competition in Currency Act" (HR 1098), has three parts . . .

The Honest Money portion would repeal the legal tender law, which gives the Federal Reserve a monopoly over the money supply.
The Competitive Currency section would repeal the words of Title 18 Section 489 of the U.S. Code, which gives the United States government a monopoly over the creation of coins for use as currency.
The Tax-Free Gold component of the bill would prohibit federal and state taxes, such as capital gains, on precious metal coins and bullion.

AND YOU ASK WHAT THAT WOULD DO

The Benefits to You: Success for this campaign would help end inflation, and the economic booms and busts that inflation causes. Inflation is a hidden tax that the politicians use to transfer wealth from you to favored interests. Ending inflation would cause your money to gain increased purchasing power as the economy grows.

happy now i did all the hard work for you now all you have to do is dig a little deeper and read

 

[whodare]

https://secure.downsizedc.org/etp/honest-money/

The Legal Tender Law Creates a Monopoly

Every paper dollar you own carries the words "Federal Reserve Note" (FRN). This means they were authorized for issue by the Federal Reserve System (the Fed), a national bank created by Congress. The legal tender law gives the Fed a monopoly over what you use for money.

When a currency is legal tender you are legally compelled to accept it in payment for debts, even if you've made a contract to be paid in some other currency or commodity, such as gold. The Free Competition in Currency Act would free you to use other currencies, gold, silver, or all of them at the same time, including FRNs and would make gold contracts legally enforceable in court.

If this seems like a strange new world to you, please realize that you already live in this world to a certain extent.

When you check-out at a store you can already pay using cash, check, debit card, or credit card. You probably also have different accounts you use for various purposes. Repealing the legal tender monopoly would simply extend this process, giving you more choices.

How the FRN Monopoly Works

Choice is good because it allows competition. Monopoly is bad because it leads to price-fixing. Monopoly control over what you can use as money provides the greatest price-fixing power of all. It impacts ALL of your economic transactions. The Fed can manipulate the price of everything by increasing the number of circulating dollars (inflation), or by decreasing that number (deflation).

How the Fed is like a counterfeiting ring

Counterfeiters also inflate the money supply. They use their fake money to get something for nothing, taking wealth from others without creating wealth of their own. It's stealing. But the long-term consequences of counterfeiting are even worse than the initial theft.

If the counterfeit dollars stay in circulation they will trick businesses into making a disastrous mistake.

Assume you're a widget maker. The extra circulating counterfeit dollars will cause demand for your widgets to rise. This increase in demand is actually an inflationary bubble, and that means trouble . . .

Your widgets will start to fly off the shelves faster than you can make them. This will cause you to increase prices to maintain inventories, and to invest in new production and staff to meet the heightened demand. But this increased demand is an illusion, because . . .

Everyone else will increase their prices too, for the same reasons you did. These rising prices will remove the perception of greater wealth and soak up the extra spending power created by the counterfeit dollars. The demand for your widgets will shrink back to its old level, but with a wicked twist . . .

The investment you made in expanded inventories and greater production will be exposed as unneeded. Your widgets will start to gather dust on the shelf and you'll have trouble paying your bills. The result?

You will lay-off recently hired employees and close your new production facilities.

First came the inflationary boom/bubble, and then the bust/recession.

Extra FRNs created by the Fed work exactly the same as extra FRNs created by counterfeiters. They allow those who get the dollars first to get something for nothing. The rest of us get a boom, and then a bust.

The Fed has numerous ways to create new FRNs out of thin air. Economists cloud these methods in complicated jargon, and the talking heads on TV make it all sound perfectly normal and even necessary, but the result is exactly the same as with illegal counterfeiting.

Given the above explanation it should come as no surprise that the greatest boom-and-bust cycle in American history happened immediately after the Fed's birth in 1913. Federal Reserve counterfeiting and credit expansion put the inflationary "roar" in the "Roaring Twenties," followed by the biggest bust ever, the Great Depression.

Other booms doomed to bust have been caused by essentially the same process, including the recent stock market and housing bubbles.

How You Can End This Con-game

Imagine what would happen if FRNs had to compete with gold, a form of money that can't be significantly inflated or deflated because of its scarcity and durability. . .

People would begin to have gold accounts that they would use to buy and sell. The ownership of the gold would be transferred back and forth using checks, debit cards, paper certificates (currency), and a few coins, just like with FRNs.
When you went shopping you might start to see two prices, one in FRNs and one in a certain weight of gold. If the Fed inflated the number of FRNs you would see the FRN prices rise while the gold price would stay roughly the same.
You would begin to prefer to pay the gold price, so you would want to be paid in gold too.
How could the Fed stop the flight to gold? Only one way. Stop inflating the number of FRNs.

Congressman Paul has hit upon the easiest way to end monetary inflation, and the booms and busts that follow in its wake. Simply repeal the legal tender monopoly enjoyed by FRNs, and the coinage monopoly held by the United States government. Stop taxing exchanges in commodity metals. Allow monetary competition. This would help end inflation. But that's not all . . .

Forcing FRNs to compete with gold will also confer one other benefit. Over time the prices you pay will tend to fall as increases in economic efficiency (for example, technological improvements) lower the cost of production and increase the supply of goods and services. A stable money supply tends to become more valuable over time, unlike an inflationary currency that constantly loses value.

Creating a free market money system would also have one other benefit. It could help to End the Fed, by making what the Fed does increasingly irrelevant.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

well if you had bother to read anything that i had posted you'd realize your grossly misinformed

he wants to get rid of the law banning a competing currency...
GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT





AND YOU ASK WHAT THAT WOULD DO





happy now i did all the hard work for you now all you have to do is dig a little deeper and read

Yeah, all I'd have to do is recognize that none of what you posted explains how a gold standard would be implemented nor what it would mean for your net worth.

 

[whodare]

Yeah, all I'd have to do is recognize that none of what you posted explains how a gold standard would be implemented nor what it would mean for your net worth.

couldn't help ya there im no politician nor phd economist...


my net worth is irrelevant i have little to no net worth and live off what i can produce(ie grow)...

i have as little invested in the current system as possible but should i decide to expand my worth "on paper" it would be in metals, land(particularly land with access to a large water supply) and other assets with high liqudity...


and again Paul isnt for a strictly gold standard so your question is moot

 

[SpasticGramps]

So what's all the really radical stuff, real policy or just breakfast for the fringe?

Ya'll are missing RP's point. He talks a lot about the gold standard, but he's smart enough to know we aren't going their voluntarily. His point is the market will reprice gold as the reserve currency of the world as the USD gets printed into oblivion.

Would a gold standard (ie. repricing gold as the reserve currency) be incredibly destructive? Fuck yeah it would. That's a no brainer. What he's saying is that the market is going to do it whether ya'll like it or not. In fact look at all the unilateral agreements taking place between countries abandoning the USD as the reserve currency. Look at the increase in central bank holdings of gold. They are hoarding it. For a reason. The American politicians are monetizing structural deficits. We are defaulting via the printing press.

Maybe it's because I went to school with a bunch of Europeans, but monetizing is considered insane over there. Just look at what the Bundesbank and the ECB say about monetizing debt. They think it's insane. The hilarious thing is even despite their public condemnation of it they are doing it anyway (LTRO, PIIGS bonds) because the market will collapse if they don't.

Unfortunately, that's not taught in the USA at all. We think printing to propersity is not only possible, but a good thing. LOL. That's breakfast for the fringe IMO.

EDIT:

 

[SpasticGramps]

Yeah, all I'd have to do is recognize that none of what you posted explains how a gold standard would be implemented nor what it would mean for your net worth.

It get's implemented through wealth destruction and mass poverty.

Except for those holding gold and lots of it (like central bank lots). Everyone else looses, but that what happens when you try to print to prosperity.

 

[Avenger]

how a gold standard would be implemented nor what it would mean for your net worth

The gold standard would be implemented by the market after the the Federal reserve Bank's monopoly on money is ended. As it would outcompete other goods and be chosen as the favored medium of exchange.

It would mean your net worth would once again be secured from being devalued by inflationary currency policy.

 

[Cojito]

i dont know if that is a sarcastic comment but it wasnt a comparison it was an example...

an example of Weimar-like inflation? as i said - genius.

... you see why the germans experienced hyperinflation... heres a clue: they suspended the convertibility of its currency into gold and borrowed the money to pay back the reparations from ww1

you don't, but probably should mention, (that is, if we're going to be intellectually honest), that the Germans refused to raise taxes to pay for their war. they printed money instead. i'm on record as saying that we need to raise taxes to pay our bills and invest in our future. paying our bills (and reining our obscene military spending) will eliminate your Weimar problem.

also from Wiki: "It is sometimes argued that Germany had to inflate its currency to pay the war reparations required under the Treaty of Versailles, but this is misleading, because the Reparations Commission required payment to be in gold marks or in foreign currency, not in the rapidly depreciating paper mark."

BTW Germany 2012 is doing just fine. still no gold standard. and you still don't need a wheel barrow (or even a purse) to buy milk.

 

[monkey5]

I am for cutting spending..

I am for cutting spending..

I am for cutting spending..LONG BEFORE RAISING ANY TAXES! Cut those Government pay checks! All Government pay checks! Before taxing another nickel from anyone!! Is a must! There is soooo much waste they could cut too! Before any more taxes are raised! Sorry, just how I see it! And many others see it that way too! Do away with any Government job not absolutly a needed position! monkey5

 

[monkey5]

All their benifits, sick days, paid vacations..golden retirement programs! Get rid of them all! THen..and only then should we be even talking about more NEW TAXES!! monkey5

 

[RetroGrow]

It appears that Ron Paul is in second place now, and other candidates are fading.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/07/us-usa-campaign-poll-idUSTRE81514720120207

 

[Plant Early]

Ron Paul is the champion of monentary reform, but Bill Still is a visionary of a debt free future, and he has a workable plan.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haZZos12nN0

 

[SpasticGramps]

BTW Germany 2012 is doing just fine. still no gold standard. and you still don't need a wheel barrow (or even a purse) to buy milk.

Yeah but the post-Wiemar hell hole set the economic conditions for the rise of the Third Reich. No one here is saying the end of the world is coming or that America won't exist after a potential hyper inflationary collapse. That line of reasoning is elementary. Hyperinflation doesn't equal end of the world. That's ridiculous.

It does however mean extreme pain for the lower classes and provides the environment for the rise of dictators. Something not to be taken lightly.

 

[Cojito]

Yeah but the post-Wiemar hell hole set the economic conditions for the rise of the Third Reich.

indeed. that's why i was grateful to read Ron Paul's "when things go badly, individuals look for scapegoats" line. and why i think its important to properly vet any candidate.

No one here is saying the end of the world is coming or that America won't exist after a potential hyper inflationary collapse.

certainly i'm not saying that. but i keep reading things like this: "This country is so fucked. The totalitarian apparatus is fully in place. We are on the road to hell. Sheep preparing to be slaughtered. History will not look at us kindly." i think some dude called Spastic Gramps said that. it sounded kinda grim when i read it. but i'm cheered you don't think hell is on the horizon.

Hyperinflation doesn't equal end of the world. That's ridiculous.

i never suggested that it did. i'm not the fear and loathing guy in this room.

 

[Avenger]

Bill Still is a fiat shill. He says we should trust government to create money at will.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annota...&feature=iv&v=IDEMxD5kUaI&src_vid=XSJVV-Hvk2g

http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2011/12/denninger-attacks-wenzel.html

 

[SpasticGramps]

it sounded kinda grim when i read it. but i'm cheered you don't think hell is on the horizon.

What, you've never been to hell and back? It's not so bad.

In the word's of my favorite person in the whole world.....

"This is just transitory"- Ben Bernanke.

He's right. Just like Wiemar was transitory for the Germans.

BTW, this country is fucked (for a generation or two). Sorry to be the debbie downer, but IMO that data doesn't lie.

 

[ShroomDr]

Fox Business (Judge Napalitano) is about to do a legalized weed 'piece'.

They just went to commerical.