Refusing Knock & Talk's?

[Verite]

Imo you would not be using any common sense by opening the door when the cops on the other side have pretty much made up their minds as to what probable cause angle their going to use. Demanding a warrant after they have legally used probable cause to enter and search is only going to make them laugh.

I also dont care what country you come from, ask any lawyer from any country and they are going to tell you the same thing, DONT ANSWER THE DOOR. Prisons a great place to learn the phrase, " Gee I shoulda listened to my lawyer. "

 

[British_Bulldog]

Verite, it's one thing listening to a lawyer, and it's another to make decisions for yourself.

I was brought up to think for myself, and as a result, I survived a knock and talk, and nipped a very dangerous flower in the bud.

As I said, if they had busted me back then, they would have hit the proverbial Jackpot, and I would have certainly been in serious trouble.

However, by thinking on my feet and handling things, then I convinced them I wasn't worth pursuing and they dropped the investigation.

Of course, I kept my guard up, even after I cleared house, as I thought the investigation was continuing, but it turned out it wasn't.

I firmly believe that if I hadn't answered the door, then eventually they would have gathered enough evidence to smash my door in and I would have been caught red handed with considerable amounts of weed, hash and plants, as well as thousands of dollars worth of equipment.

My ex-girlfriend also would have been busted with me, so I was acting responsibly by answering the door and making them go away.

If I had the same situation again, I would do exactly the same thing.

Call that stupid, but I like to take matters into my own hands, come what may.

There is a but, and there always is - I didn't have a criminal record, and I believe that if I had, then they would have persecuted me for it, and I would have been busted one way or another. > They radioed my details to the station while they were on the doorstep, and nothing came up, so they had nothing to go on. However, if there had been even one drug related offence come back from the HQ, I am sure they would have pursued me.

The other thing that saved me from their continual badgering to come in was the fact that I said I was just about to make love with my partner.

I saw from their body language that they wanted to go upstairs, and even tried distracting me and pushing the door open to gain access, but I had my foot behind it and they weren't able to.

Ok, this wasn't the States, and maybe in the States or Canada from what I've heard, I wouldn't have answered the door, but in any case, it's important to know it was the police, because then you can tear down after they've gone, so some form of hidden surveillance camera is necessary in that situation.

Otherwise, you're living in ignorance and you're not on top of the game, leaving yourself open to a bust.


Peace

 

[whodi]

They just radio'd in your details to see if you had any outstanding warrants, most likely. They couldn't do shit legally whether you had a past drug offense or not.

 

[British_Bulldog]

Whodi, they radioed my details in to the station for both reasons - in case you forgot, once you've got a record the pigs never leave you alone...

 

[Macster2]

All I can say is it's pretty fuckin sad when the cops can get away with that shit

 

[Jerry Maine]

I'm with the Bulldog on this one, making blanket statements like you should never answer the door simply doesn't allow for the variables, of which there are many. Everyone's situation is different, not answering your door or telling the cops to go get a warrant isn't going to help you in many countries other than the US.

I live in the Japan countryside, so if I get a visit it isn't going to be Sargent Pepper banging down the door with one hand on his holster and the other on his cock. If a cop knocked on my door here it'd probably be to sell me a fucking $2 raffle ticket, and not answering the door or telling him to fuck off would just raise a flag. Evidence from illegal searches is routinely admitted here so I'd rather have him poking his nose around with me here than with the landlord while I'm at work.

Americans essentially live in a police state so they invariably have antagonistic relations with the cops, and their own peculiar set of laws to contend with. I can go a month or two here without even seeing a cop. And It's probably standard here, if visited by a cop, to invite them inside for some green tea and some mochi, lol. Chalk and cheese. So telling them to fuck off and get a warrant won't be the right card to play 99% of the time in my situation. Back in Australia, or even in Tokyo or Osaka, I'd say things lie somewhere between those two extremes, the police presence would be considerably higher and a little more antagonistic, but not at US levels. Different situations demand different strategies.

Anyhow, wherever you live it also helps to keep your options open, so you can read the situation and make the right play. If you have stealthed your grow and stashed your bong you can open the door, step outside for a chat, and even have them come in. If they push through, trick your partner into letting them in before you can stop them, or whatever, you're still odds on going to keep both your grow and your freedom, while actually dispelling the cops suspicions. If your only line of defence is not answering the front door then IMO you're risking raising flags, they are going to snoop on you, check your past, maybe even feign a burglary or a domestic dispute and bust their way in tofind out what you're hiding. Most cops can smell guilt and fear before they smell your garden. Not opening your door is going to spell guilt to them, it then comes down to whether or not they are going to dig deeper, and if so how fast you can tear up your own grow.

I have the option of not opening my door too, as I would if I'd just had a bong or whatever. But otherwise I'll open the door, talk to them, and if I feel it's the right card to play I'll even invite a cop into my house, I doubt they'd see, smell, or hear a thing, and I'd be blindsiding their suspicions. Because of regular visits, neighbours, family, etc. I have to totally stealth my grow and smoking anyhow. You can not answer the door, have cops investigating your ass, and pull your grow ASAP, I'll buy the $2 raffle ticket.



J

 

[doja420]

Why are people so confused regarding this???

What part of knocking and talking dont you people get???

They arent busting down the door. They knocked .. you answered .. anything illegal observed is grounds for probable cause .. end of story.

I can provide a few dozen links that shows the legality of it .. if you can provide the links/laws that shows that smelling marijuana ISNT probable cause then please provide them.

Heres some
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2194/is_8_75/ai_n18791225/pg_1
http://www.orlandoweekly.com/features/story.asp?id=2940
http://www.laborlawtalk.com/showthread.php?t=115663
http://www.onlinepot.org/legal/potbusts.htm
http://www.alternet.org/rights/14927?page=4
http://www.nevergetbusted.com/v2/ngb_march08_newsletter
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/FEB2000VOL_8704_7.pdf
http://www.erowid.org/freedom/police/police_cannabis_defense1.shtml

GREAT info. And this one is in my own backyard.

 

[cherokee]

well, I have a question about this scenario:

what if my roommate happens to let the cop in, either because the cop fakes some disturbance or because my roommate says, "yes sir, come in." Well, if my room is locked w/ a key, (which I do have installed), then would the cop bust my door down just to look inside? I mean I'm the only one with the key... and if my roommate said its my room and no one is in there it doesn't seem like the cop would have any reason or excuse to break the lock...

 

[Jerry Maine]

I'm not 100% sure but I believe in shared housing arrangements you have to give permission for the cop to search your room. Your friend can't give permission, so any search is illegal.

Jerry

 

[Verite]

Verite, it's one thing listening to a lawyer, and it's another to make decisions for yourself.

Im thinking its called making a decision based on the advice of counsel. Something people do all over the world regardless of the notions you have about the police in your country or others. You can speculate all you want on the 'what ifs' and it still wont give you the same power as the person that doesnt answer the door in the first place.

 

[SomeGuy]

Im thinking its called making a decision based on the advice of counsel. Something people do all over the world regardless of the notions you have about the police in your country or others. You can speculate all you want on the 'what ifs' and it still wont give you the same power as the person that doesnt answer the door in the first place.

Jails are FULL of people that thought they were smarter than the kops, heh?

 

[Macster2]

Home of the free??

 

[clowntown]

I would be more than interested to read a case where it was thrown out after a cop used smelling weed as probable cause to enter a house without a warrant and found marijuana.

I can't find it but there was a case recently (within the last 6-ish months), in I believe San Jose, CA, where a cop went into a guy's apartment after seeing & smelling him and his buddies smoking marijuana. The cops found plants, and a decent amount of buds. The case was eventually thrown out due to illegal search, where it was ultimately ruled that the fact that the cop could see & smell marijuana being smoked couldn't automatically judge that a crime was being committed. I really wish I could find it...

 

[B.C.]

Clowntown

Clowntown

Maybe in Cali, but that would -never- fly in the midwest. BC

 

[Purkle]

I had a case pitched for illegal search (Fruit of the tree)when a cop said someone called 911 and hung up. He saw me through the door so I had to anwser, otherwise I would never anwser willing.

 

[Guest]

Where I'm from, refusing to let an officer in during a knock and talk will lead to an eviction--if you are a renter. Pretty sure the same goes for not answering at all. Still--eviction is a small price to pay if standing up for your rights means you don't get possession/cultivation charges.

 

[clowntown]

Do you live in government subsidized housing?

 

[Guest]

Do you live in government subsidized housing?

If you are talking to me, no. It's an Oregon statute...and may even be limited down to certain cities/areas by now. The police contact your landlord and the landlord has...I believe 60 days to evict you...

 

[clowntown]

Isn't that against The Constitution?

 

[Guest]

Many things around where I am go against the constitution, essentially.

For example...

If you are downtown (on public streets), you cannot 'stand' on the sidewalk, only on the decorative tile near the curb. You must be walking on the sidewalk. Its a city ordinance put in place to 'protect' downtown businesses from hackysackers. I have spoken to police about it, but they assured me that they aren't supposed to protect the constitution, only uphold city ordinances.