RECENT interesting findings

[Sam_Skunkman]

I do agree that environmental influences can change the ratios, I have seen the same clone do this all dependent on the environment. But to see a major terpene appear or disappear is something I have not seen like this example. I am suspect to say the least. I have seen some of the major testing labs get results that was not correct, I know because the identical clone sample was sent to half a dozen labs and they were not all the same results, some identified peaks as the wrong terpene, as well some are using HPLC to test for terpenes when all the major terpene labs use GC-FID or some GC-MS. As well some labs test time for runs is much faster then we used, we wanted clear separation between peaks we wanted the best results we could get, they are driven by maximizing the amount of samples that can be run in a day. You decide what you would want.
-SamS

That appears to be greengenes' test result. No controls, no consistency in growing, no repeat results, could be a lot of other things. On the other hand, I would not be surprised at all if environmental influences can change the ratios to a point where one is not detected. Unless you can reproduce the results it's rather meaningless.

There is plenty of research that shows certain light recipes and intensity as well as nutrient availability heavily influence secondary metabolites production.

 

[Nirrity]

Sam_S, Sativied, thank you for setting this straight.

Yep this test picture is from greengenes.

So Sam_S, if there is any particular way to increase overall terpene content? The way i interpret your previous post is that the terpene content is genetically determined, is that correct?

Let me use this example. These are the tests of the same hybrid coming from the same dispensary. I don't know if they run the same clone. It is my assumption that they may do, because the terpene ratios look almost identical. But terpene content is drastically different on all 3 samples. That draw me to the question if some environmental factor played a role here? Is there a way to boost terpenes' content from 2% to 5%?

icmag compresses pictures so you don't see readings here's external pictures

 

[Medfinder]

I own some 3000k, 3500k and 4000k, I like to mix em all, I also have a few old blurples in the mix. It is said that the red increase yield while the blue to some extent increase resin production.

Since I am trying to grow resin I never even tried growing with the 3000k alone. I get great results from the 3500k by themselves or mixing the 3000k and the 4000k. I have also seen great results mixing 4000k and 5000k in flowering but more testing is required.

most leds I use are cxb3590, vero 29 and also I have some other older and newer tech. I mix em all, 100% LEDs in flower, since 2011

interesting that man has made such an impact on all cannabis due to the GREED of products that could be replaced by hemp and sativa l


when america goes fully legal then we will see the bio agro companies really impact cultivars and landrace cannabis.

as far as light impact studies determining profile in genetic and genotype regulation of chemical production there are studies but with money possibly tainting outcomes we need verified testing through unbiased sources.

 

[angelgoob]

Sam_S, Sativied, thank you for setting this straight.

Yep this test picture is from greengenes.

So Sam_S, if there is any particular way to increase overall terpene content? The way i interpret your previous post is that the terpene content is genetically determined, is that correct?

Let me use this example. These are the tests of the same hybrid coming from the same dispensary. I don't know if they run the same clone. It is my assumption that they may do, because the terpene ratios look almost identical. But terpene content is drastically different on all 3 samples. That draw me to the question if some environmental factor played a role here? Is there a way to boost terpenes' content from 2% to 5%?

icmag compresses pictures so you don't see readings here's external pictures

[URL=https://thumb.ibb.co/m4diY5/slh_3.jpg]View Image[/url] [URL=https://thumb.ibb.co/dirRmQ/slh_1.jpg]View Image[/url] [URL=https://thumb.ibb.co/b3KCRQ/slh_2.jpg]View Image[/url]

using more light and using bug dunks (plants think bugs are attacking it) maybe.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I have met very few without a bias, it is almost the nature of man.
But maybe I am biased to think this way?
-SamS

interesting that man has made such an impact on all cannabis due to the GREED of products that could be replaced by hemp and sativa l


when america goes fully legal then we will see the bio agro companies really impact cultivars and landrace cannabis.

as far as light impact studies determining profile in genetic and genotype regulation of chemical production there are studies but with money possibly tainting outcomes we need verified testing through unbiased sources.

 

[Londinium]

lol /\

 

[Gr33nSanta]

Sam, you call CBD the anti-weed (or something similar) , like CBD is your biggest enemy. But what do you think of using CBD in lieu of tolerance break? I find if I smoke high CBD cultivars for a couple of days in a row, and then smoke a high THC cultivar, I get so so high from it.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

That makes sense to me, but what I smoke is so strong I do not have problem with tolerance I assure you I can easily get medicated as a kite everyday with no problem. If you find it handy then use it. I have no need to adjust my tolerance, as long as I have great resin. I think you may know I do not smoke herbal Cannabis.
-SamS

Sam, you call CBD the anti-weed (or something similar) , like CBD is your biggest enemy. But what do you think of using CBD in lieu of tolerance break? I find if I smoke high CBD cultivars for a couple of days in a row, and then smoke a high THC cultivar, I get so so high from it.

 

[Gr33nSanta]

can you name a few cultivars that produce your great resin? I am sure you have access to the best of the best but which ones do you rarely go a week without smoking? any of your old varieties still in rotation in your own garden?

 

[bsgospel]

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0173911

Terpene synthases from Cannabis sativa
Judith K. Booth, Jonathan E. Page, Jörg Bohlmann
Published: March 29, 2017http://dx.doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.017391



I liked this paper because I bred FINOLA, will be interesting when they do the same with more Cannabis varieties that yield closer to 10% terpenes, instead of the normal 1-2% terpenes found in most. They also show work with Skunk #1 and Purple Kush, I did not breed Purple Kush, I think I did all the others. Breeding for terpene profiles and %'s will be the future, work like this a very small step in that direction.
-SamS

That is cool- and further I'm glad that we're getting more information on so many more secondary pathways and isoprenylation in cannabis specifically. Identifying each pathway and their corresponding terpene expression is huge.

"The present study highlights the large number of CsTPS genes and the diverse products of the encoded TPS enzyme activities, which contribute to the complex terpene profiles of cannabis. The knowledge of multigene nature of the CsTPS family and the often multiple products of the encoded enzymes will be critical when selecting or breeding, or improving plants by genome editing, for particular terpene profiles for standardized cannabis varieties. While cannabinoid-free individuals have occasionally been reported [48], we are not aware of any reports in the literature of terpene-free cannabis. In this study, we observed a single monoterpene-free individual, which however still contained cannabinoids and sesquiterpenes. This observation implies that biosynthesis of the different classes of terpenoid metabolites are independently regulated."

 

[Nirrity]

SamS may i repeat the question if there is any way to boost terpenes?

 

[Chunkypigs]

SamS may i repeat the question if there is any way to boost terpenes?

I take everything Kevin says in this Cannamed video says with a big grain of salt considering what he's selling....but he mentions terpene production being increased in other herbs by fumigating the plants with antibiotics during their growth and speculates the process will be used on canna in the future.

[YOUTUBEIF]-Qu40GiVvu4[/YOUTUBEIF]

the easiest way I have found is to switch from HPS to MH lamps during flower.
less yield, more flavor.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

The way I did it was to encourage very massive and very fine roots that allow the plant to flourish, kind of like how do you get the tomatoes that taste and smell best? Grow them in bio-dynamic Organic soil, and use heirloom varieties that were selected for taste not because they ship well, can sit on grocery shelves a long time and be a pretty red even though they are almost tasteless. 2 of my favorite heirloom tomato varieties are Cherokee Purple and Brandywine they are what tomatoes should be like, but as they can split their skins easily they are not favored for shipping and most stores do not often carry them, farmers markets have them, once you try them if you love tomatoes you really just want Bio-dynamic Organic Heirloom tomatoes. I think the same is true with Cannabis and terpenes.
-SamS

SamS may i repeat the question if there is any way to boost terpenes?

 

[Nirrity]

SamS, thank you for the example.

If you'll have time to elaborate please check these tests and share your thoughts. Question is if it is the same clone can it be counted as a proof that terpenes can be increased from 2% to 5%?

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Is it the same clone? That is question number one.

Are the lower terpene levels because that crop was grown to hot or damaged in some way? While the higher %'s were grown better?

Is the high Terpene levels high or normal and it is the other examples that have been lowered because of bad management?

5% terpenes is quite high, but you can find higher. This requires the right variety that when grown correctly will express high terpene %'s. So it is a combination of the right varieties and proper cultivation and harvesting and processing and storage techniques.

-SamS

SamS, thank you for the example.

If you'll have time to elaborate please check these tests and share your thoughts. Question is if it is the same clone can it be counted as a proof that terpenes can be increased from 2% to 5%?

[URL=https://thumb.ibb.co/m4diY5/slh_3.jpg]View Image[/url] [URL=https://thumb.ibb.co/dirRmQ/slh_1.jpg]View Image[/url] [URL=https://thumb.ibb.co/b3KCRQ/slh_2.jpg]View Image[/url]

 

[Gr33nSanta]

on YouTube on Bubbleman's channel, the Ethan Russo talk video uploaded yesterday,

@ 20 minutes, Ethan talks about GW having a plant that 92% of it's cannabinoids are THCV, and then goes on to say that he is against genetic modification and all for selective breeding.

Where can I find more info on how they went about creating a plant that has 92% THCV?

You often talk about creating a plant that has only one cannabinoid, do you mean through selective breeding?

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Yes, this is an example of Cannabis with one Cannabinoid or almost.
Yes this is an example of Classical selective breeding.
-SamS
Read the paper:
The inheritance of chemical phenotype in Cannabis sativa L. (V): regulation of the propyl-/pentyl cannabinoid ratio, completion of a genetic model.
E. P. M. de Meijer . K. M. Hammond
Euphytica
DOI 10.1007/s10681-016-1721-3

on YouTube on Bubbleman's channel, the Ethan Russo talk video uploaded yesterday,

@ 20 minutes, Ethan talks about GW having a plant that 92% of it's cannabinoids are THCV, and then goes on to say that he is against genetic modification and all for selective breeding.

Where can I find more info on how they went about creating a plant that has 92% THCV?

You often talk about creating a plant that has only one cannabinoid, do you mean through selective breeding?

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Removal of floral microbiota reduces floral terpene emissions
Josep Penuelas, Gerard Farre-Armengol, Joan Llusia, Albert Gargallo-Garriga, Laura Rico, Jordi Sardans, Jaume Terradas & Iolanda Filella.
DOI: 10.1038/srep06727
Scientific Reports 2014

Maybe Kevin needs to read this paper?
-SamS

I take everything Kevin says in this Cannamed video says with a big grain of salt considering what he's selling....but he mentions terpene production being increased in other herbs by fumigating the plants with antibiotics during their growth and speculates the process will be used on canna in the future.

[YOUTUBEIF]-Qu40GiVvu4[/YOUTUBEIF]

the easiest way I have found is to switch from HPS to MH lamps during flower.
less yield, more flavor.

 

[Stan G.]

The way I did it was to encourage very massive and very fine roots that allow the plant to flourish, kind of like how do you get the tomatoes that taste and smell best? Grow them in bio-dynamic Organic soil, and use heirloom varieties that were selected for taste not because they ship well, can sit on grocery shelves a long time and be a pretty red even though they are almost tasteless. 2 of my favorite heirloom tomato varieties are Cherokee Purple and Brandywine they are what tomatoes should be like, but as they can split their skins easily they are not favored for shipping and most stores do not often carry them, farmers markets have them, once you try them if you love tomatoes you really just want Bio-dynamic Organic Heirloom tomatoes. I think the same is true with Cannabis and terpenes.
-SamS

I totally agree. I love growing heirloom tomatoes, they taste way better. Organic heirloom Cannabis beats the crap out of commercial production varietals for that same reason.

 

[RightOnTarget]

The way I did it was to encourage very massive and very fine roots that allow the plant to flourish, kind of like how do you get the tomatoes that taste and smell best? Grow them in bio-dynamic Organic soil, and use heirloom varieties that were selected for taste not because they ship well, can sit on grocery shelves a long time and be a pretty red even though they are almost tasteless. 2 of my favorite heirloom tomato varieties are Cherokee Purple and Brandywine they are what tomatoes should be like, but as they can split their skins easily they are not favored for shipping and most stores do not often carry them, farmers markets have them, once you try them if you love tomatoes you really just want Bio-dynamic Organic Heirloom tomatoes. I think the same is true with Cannabis and terpenes.
-SamS

Also the ones that go to shops are picked unripe, never reaching the true taste potential of the varieties in question. That is also related to shelf life, as you very probably know. Once you get to taste what the really delicious and ripe varieties taste, there is no going back.
Most store-bought tomatoes taste only like sour water, yuck.