REALSTYLES DIY CXB3590 TUTORIAL

[Steve2324]

I've been googling for ages however struggle to find out what is the actual best cob at the moment.

What makes you say the vero is better?

Why do you say to not go for cxa?
When googling I see some people using 6000k 7000k cobs but when I check spec sheets it doesn't have anything about 3500k or 6000 or 7000.

 

[Steve2324]

So after even more reading I understand the cxb3590 is the new version of cxa so cxb are better are veros better than cxb?

 

[Ichabod Crane]

I am no expert but here is how I understand the cree cobs.

CXA was replaced by CXB. The CXB is more efficient at turning watts into light than CXA.

CRI refers to how close the cob will get to its kelvin value. So a higher cri will be more uniform in color at its given spectrum.

My take on that is that to high of a cri mean you are not filling the full spectrum. For example a high cri will have less variance than a lower cri. The lower cri will spread out more than the higher one threw out the spectrum. Good if you want to be very specific and use different spectrums to get it exactly how you want it.

In the individual cobs you will have another letter designation such as CD or DD. These will indicate even more the efficiency of the cobs in that group.

DD is more efficient than CD. You will have to find a chart to tell how high the spectrum goes in this rating. The last I knew CD was as high as a CXB 3590 3500k chip would go. But in the 5000k CXB 3590 a DD is more efficient. This has to do with the coating on the chip that is used to create the colors. Some coatings block more than others.

I am not a expert in this but this is how I understand it right now.

As for what is the best chip that will depend on the grower. Some want low energy use and less heat, some want maximum light out put for penetration or lower cost, and still others want specific color for growth patterns.

So this is why you will not find everyone saying one chip will do it all.

 

[Steve2324]

I am no expert but here is how I understand the cree cobs.

CXA was replaced by CXB. The CXB is more efficient at turning watts into light than CXA.

CRI refers to how close the cob will get to its kelvin value. So a higher cri will be more uniform in color at its given spectrum.

My take on that is that to high of a cri mean you are not filling the full spectrum. For example a high cri will have less variance than a lower cri. The lower cri will spread out more than the higher one threw out the spectrum. Good if you want to be very specific and use different spectrums to get it exactly how you want it.

In the individual cobs you will have another letter designation such as CD or DD. These will indicate even more the efficiency of the cobs in that group.

DD is more efficient than CD. You will have to find a chart to tell how high the spectrum goes in this rating. The last I knew CD was as high as a CXB 3590 3500k chip would go. But in the 5000k CXB 3590 a DD is more efficient. This has to do with the coating on the chip that is used to create the colors. Some coatings block more than others.

I am not a expert in this but this is how I understand it right now.

As for what is the best chip that will depend on the grower. Some want low energy use and less heat, some want maximum light out put for penetration or lower cost, and still others want specific color for growth patterns.

So this is why you will not find everyone saying one chip will do it all.

Really helpful thanks for that.

So your saying the cxb3590 DD 80 cri is most efficient as it stands at the moment?

I don't believe I need much penetrating power as my plants will be only 2 ft tall. ( buds all the way down)

If I run cxb3590 dd 80 cri could anyone help me with calculations to work out optimal ppfd from 6 inch from light to 30 inches from light?

That's the optimal range that my plants will be in from the bulbs at all times.

I am not too bothered about power draw other than I can't really do more than 50w per light due to circuit breaker limitations at the moment.

So now that I know what bulbs to buy.. I need help working out what amp I should run them at to get optimal ppfd in these distance ranges

Cheers

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Really helpful thanks for that.

So your saying the cxb3590 DD 80 cri is most efficient as it stands at the moment?

I don't believe I need much penetrating power as my plants will be only 2 ft tall. ( buds all the way down)

If I run cxb3590 dd 80 cri could anyone help me with calculations to work out optimal ppfd from 6 inch from light to 30 inches from light?

That's the optimal range that my plants will be in from the bulbs at all times.

I am not too bothered about power draw other than I can't really do more than 50w per light due to circuit breaker limitations at the moment.

So now that I know what bulbs to buy.. I need help working out what amp I should run them at to get optimal ppfd in these distance ranges

Cheers

That is in the 5000k cob. The 3500k I believe is still CD. You need to goggle it to tell it has been a while since I looked.

PPFD is not determined by the amps you run them at. Amps will set your efficiency. Density of cobs will set your PPFD.

So decide what spectrum you want, then efficiency, then PPFD.

I run 3500k at 1.4 amps (about 56% efficiency) in the CD bin.

For this set up with 16 of these chips I get 936 PPFD in a 4x5 area. In a 5x5 area it is 750 PPFD.

 

[Steve2324]

That is in the 5000k cob. The 3500k I believe is still CD. You need to goggle it to tell it has been a while since I looked.

PPFD is not determined by the amps you run them at. Amps will set your efficiency. Density of cobs will set your PPFD.

So decide what spectrum you want, then efficiency, then PPFD.

I run 3500k at 1.4 amps (about 56% efficiency) in the CD bin.

For this set up with 16 of these chips I get 936 PPFD in a 4x5 area. In a 5x5 area it is 750 PPFD.

Ok so I want the 3500k for flower not too bothered about efficiency as long as max 50w per chip.

So if I have 1 chip over every sqft at 1400a
Would the tops be safe from bleaching at 12 inches in my flower room?

Cheers

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Ok so I want the 3500k for flower not too bothered about efficiency as long as max 50w per chip.

So if I have 1 chip over every sqft at 1400a
Would the tops be safe from bleaching at 12 inches in my flower room?

Cheers

I dont know for sure whether that will bleach them. I have not flowered with my lights. I have been using them in veg.

At 1 per square foot you would get a PPFD of about 1168.

 

[Steve2324]

When you work out that ppfd how's it worked out? Surely ppfd depends at how far from lights? Is that measured at 6 inch? 12 inch? Etc?

 

[Ichabod Crane]

It is done with reflective walls.

Start out by determining your watts. In my case 49 watts. Then use the efficiency at which the chip runs at. At 1.4 amps mine run at 56.3%.

49x0.563= 27.587

This is your par watts. Multiple this by 85% for losses on your walls.

47.587x0.85=23.45

So with wall losses we now have 23.45 par watts. Next devide this by your square footage. In your case 1 square foot.

23.45÷1=23.45

Next you multiple it by 4.65 and 10.7. This will change it over to PPFD. I dont remember how these were calculated but Supra did it. But it changes it over to a timed function from a constant usage function. I believe it also factors in plant usable light and gets rid of the unusable spectrums. But not totally sure.

23.45x4.65x10.7=1167 PPFD.

Anyways just change the square footage and efficiency to get to the PPFD you want.

None of this was my figuring it was all others work to figure this stuff out. I have only put it here for you.

 

[Steve2324]

It is done with reflective walls.

Start out by determining your watts. In my case 49 watts. Then use the efficiency at which the chip runs at. At 1.4 amps mine run at 56.3%.

49x0.563= 27.587

This is your par watts. Multiple this by 85% for losses on your walls.

47.587x0.85=23.45

So with wall losses we now have 23.45 par watts. Next devide this by your square footage. In your case 1 square foot.

23.45÷1=23.45

Next you multiple it by 4.65 and 10.7. This will change it over to PPFD. I dont remember how these were calculated but Supra did it. But it changes it over to a timed function from a constant usage function. I believe it also factors in plant usable light and gets rid of the unusable spectrums. But not totally sure.

23.45x4.65x10.7=1167 PPFD.

Anyways just change the square footage and efficiency to get to the PPFD you want.

None of this was my figuring it was all others work to figure this stuff out. I have only put it here for you.

That's great thanks.

I've read atleast 12 different forum posts and read through some hundreds of pages on each trying to figure some of these things out. I think it's got to the stage that I'm reading so much I'm missing some stuff or just not taking it in

I thought if I was doing 1 per sqft I would have a ton of light, but 1167 ppfd isn't the optimum 1500 that I read somewhere...

Would the 6500k be a better choice for veg to produce tight nodes?

 

[Ichabod Crane]

That's great thanks.

I've read atleast 12 different forum posts and read through some hundreds of pages on each trying to figure some of these things out. I think it's got to the stage that I'm reading so much I'm missing some stuff or just not taking it in

I thought if I was doing 1 per sqft I would have a ton of light, but 1167 ppfd isn't the optimum 1500 that I read somewhere...

Would the 6500k be a better choice for veg to produce tight nodes?

Shit that is a ton of light. My 2 lights which have 16 cobs at 49 watt in a 5x7 area is way to much for my plants with out adding CO2.

I get real tight nodes like a half inch on Blue Dream at about 3 feet above the tops. And this penetrates down about 2 feet.

The PPFD for this 5x7 is 535 PPFD. I have been running only 12 cobs in this room for veg.

I think you would be happy running 12 cobs at 49 watts in a 4x4 area.(867 PPFD) Or 16 cobs in a 5x5 area.(748 PPFD)

 

[Ichabod Crane]

And there are kits out there that make this easy to build. They come with all you need.

You can get 4 cob kits, 5 cob kits or even 6 cob kits. They come with the cobs drivers heatsinks ect. You just need to build a frame.

 

[jikko77]

1167 ppfd isn't the optimum 1500 that I read somewhere...

1000ppfd is a ton of light. that's quite enough.

getting 1500ppfd, without improving stuff like co2 and so on is a waste imho. and with such light you would notice albinism (bleaching) issue on the growing.

 

[Steve2324]

Shit that is a ton of light. My 2 lights which have 16 cobs at 49 watt in a 5x7 area is way to much for my plants with out adding CO2.

I get real tight nodes like a half inch on Blue Dream at about 3 feet above the tops. And this penetrates down about 2 feet.

The PPFD for this 5x7 is 535 PPFD. I have been running only 12 cobs in this room for veg.

I think you would be happy running 12 cobs at 49 watts in a 4x4 area.(867 PPFD) Or 16 cobs in a 5x5 area.(748 PPFD)

I'd like to keep atleast 1 cob per sq ft due to coverage issues.

At the moment using a t5ho led for veg I notice the uneven spread by the plants on the edge of the light growing uneven with 1 side growing faster than the other.

I do plan on adding co2 later on after I get everything settled in though.

What would you guys recommend for this setup if co2 was used? I'll set up some sort of pot for the drivers anyway - I'm currently trying to figure out if I can wire multiple drivers into a single pot.

Cheers

 

[jikko77]

yes you can, mostly depends on the pot, but on a cheap one up to 8 driver, but id suggest not more than 3 for each pot. not all driver have the exaclty same output.

another imho: don't use co2 if your light isn't above the 900ppfd (better if over 1000), high light concentration would push more photosynthesis, then uses more co2, but only if there is an high ammount of light. if the light saty below certain value the additional co2 is wasted.

 

[Steve2324]

Thanks so if I run 3 drivers off one pot do I just wire the drivers all together into the pot or is there a specific way to do it?

 

[Ichabod Crane]

If you reduce the number of cobs you still will get good coverage. If you are worried about it use a diffusser like this:

https://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut2937

 

[Steve2324]

I don't have a problem with the number of cobs. I want to maximise the light as high as possible even with co2 but just need to make sure bleaching doesn't happen.

Would running 1400a 50w with 1 cob per square foot provide enough light for co2 enhanced gardens or would more light be recommended?

Also what's your opinion on lenses? If I only have so much height would it be best to not use lenses?

 

[Ichabod Crane]

I dont run CO2 so cant answer that. And you are running higher than I would so cant answer that either. But at much more than 750-800 PPFD you are fighting diminishing returns. You would be better off setting up two lights with a larger foot print and getting better yields.

I like the diffussers. It is like being in a green house as the light scatters evenly.

 

[Steve2324]

I suppose I will use 1400a and make sure I use the dimmer depending on how they are doing. So if I add co2 later on I can get enough power to the cobs.

What is the efficiency rating for cxb3590s at 700a/1050a/1400a/1750a I can't seem to find them with Google.

Cheers