QWET oil extraction

[Oakhills]

Anyone know the ratio of coconut oil to the QWET oil in order to make the liquid usable in an oral syringe? Or at least something to start off with. It is difficult to tell how much to add when everything is heated.

Thanks!

 

[Gray Wolf]

Anyone know the ratio of coconut oil to the QWET oil in order to make the liquid usable in an oral syringe? Or at least something to start off with. It is difficult to tell how much to add when everything is heated.

Thanks!

Virgin coconut oil and cannabis essential oils are both solids at room temperature, so you need something else to loosen it up or heat it first.

We add cinnamon oil, which loosens it up some:

http://skunkpharmresearch.com/holy-anointing-oil-and-holy-shit/

Both virgin and refined coconut oil will mix with cannabis essential oils at any ratio. One 1/2 or 1 oz dropper is about 33 mg, so 3 drops per 100 mg total dose.

How many drops do you want per dose?

 

[NumbSkulled]

Been there, done that............

Gave the thus infused Canola oil to an arthritic Rott/Pit Bull named Hoss, whom was suddenly again able to jump in the pickup for "bye bye" again and clearly enjoyed more of the rest of his life.

Hey Grey Wolf.
Long before I knew of the medicinal qualities of the Herb; I had a large Rotti who was over 13yo & showing the signs of age. He was a house dog & very well behaved unless I forgot to empty the garbage before I left him alone. He couldn't resist oil or butter.
Came home one day to find him lying prostrate at the door. Thinking he was dead, I threw myself on the floor, blubbering like a child with tears streaming, wrapping my arms around him (something I'd never do if he was asleep) But wait ...he's warm! Closer inspection showed slow deep breathing.
He opened his eyes, lifted his head in welcome, then back to sleep. The bugger had got into the garbage & ate a dozen stale hash cookies, enough for 12 people. He was so off his face that he slept for nearly 24 hours. His back legs never troubled him again - your post reminded me that I hadn't realised that the cookies made his legs better, haha.

My beautiful boy passed peacefully one month shy of 14yo, not bad for a 50+kg dog. I attribute his long healthy life to his diet of raw meaty bones (& love) The vet said he rarely saw dogs of that age with no teeth or gum problems (the cause of much pain)
Anyone with carnivore pets, really needs to read (sorry, don't know how to link) Dr Tom Lonsdales "Raw meaty bones" diet, if you want a healthy animal live a longer than average life.
That's all my dog ate, raw soft meaty bones like chicken necks & carcasses, lamb brisket, whole rabbits & eggs & butter for 'treats'. His turds turned white in three days & stopped stinking (when a kid, all dog turds turned white, not anymore) signs of a healthy gut.
It's not only healthier than commercial crap, it's heaps cheaper.
Canned & tinned pet food is the cause of much animal disease.

Sorry to go off topic but I can see you're an animal lover (just love your avatar btw, at so many levels, haha) & I'm sure many other readers are also & I'm really medicated on HBO

 

[Gray Wolf]

Hey Grey Wolf.
Long before I knew of the medicinal qualities of the Herb; I had a large Rotti who was over 13yo & showing the signs of age. He was a house dog & very well behaved unless I forgot to empty the garbage before I left him alone. He couldn't resist oil or butter.
Came home one day to find him lying prostrate at the door. Thinking he was dead, I threw myself on the floor, blubbering like a child with tears streaming, wrapping my arms around him (something I'd never do if he was asleep) But wait ...he's warm! Closer inspection showed slow deep breathing.
He opened his eyes, lifted his head in welcome, then back to sleep. The bugger had got into the garbage & ate a dozen stale hash cookies, enough for 12 people. He was so off his face that he slept for nearly 24 hours. His back legs never troubled him again - your post reminded me that I hadn't realised that the cookies made his legs better, haha.

My beautiful boy passed peacefully one month shy of 14yo, not bad for a 50+kg dog. I attribute his long healthy life to his diet of raw meaty bones (& love) The vet said he rarely saw dogs of that age with no teeth or gum problems (the cause of much pain)
Anyone with carnivore pets, really needs to read (sorry, don't know how to link) Dr Tom Lonsdales "Raw meaty bones" diet, if you want a healthy animal live a longer than average life.
That's all my dog ate, raw soft meaty bones like chicken necks & carcasses, lamb brisket, whole rabbits & eggs & butter for 'treats'. His turds turned white in three days & stopped stinking (when a kid, all dog turds turned white, not anymore) signs of a healthy gut.
It's not only healthier than commercial crap, it's heaps cheaper.
Canned & tinned pet food is the cause of much animal disease.

Sorry to go off topic but I can see you're an animal lover (just love your avatar btw, at so many levels, haha) & I'm sure many other readers are also & I'm really medicated on HBO

The problem with dogs, is they don't live very long. Their only fault really. Anon

Sorry for your loss brother, Rotts are cool pups. I've been "tight" with several in the family or at friends over my life and they've all been sweetheart. It's their greatness, that makes it such a loss once their gone.............

Good point on diet! We pick up bones and ox tails for our pups as well.

Interestingly all of our female German Shepherds all had/have their front fangs broken from carrying around sticks, some the size of fence posts, but their molars stay/stayed in good shape.

They recommend that you don't play fetch with show dogs, but we've mostly stuck with lines bred for herding as just pets, where a snaggle tooth smile is not a game ender and the dog can just have fun.

Thanks for the good thoughts on the avatar! I like the many messages present as well and seriously wish I knew who took the picture and posted it on public domain. They are my hero/heroine and the ones deserving of the kudos and accolades for the excellent photography and composure!

We've treated several dogs, ranging from arthritis, to cancer, and including Alzhiemers. They've responded just like people do, and have all show their appreciation.

With arthritis you can see them getting around easier and cancer either goes away or it doesn't, but Alzhiemers was perhaps the most profound, in that it turned a breeder friends grand dam from withdrawing and even getting lost in a corner, to her rightful place as head bitch and pack leader, again promoting walks and tending to business.

 

[NumbSkulled]

Thanks for the kind words Grey Wolf. Strange thing is, when he passed peacefully lying next to me in the sun, I didn't shed a single tear. I was blessed to have had such a "sweetheart" (It's one thing I love about the Rottis, so fierce yet so gentle & friendly) that the decision was taken out of my hands (the vet had given me the 'he's had a good life & he's real old' talk not long before - I was so choked-up that I couldn't speak) & that he died without pain. If there's such a thing, it was a good death.
I think of him with a smile everyday. He'll be waiting for me 'on the other side' when it's my turn : )

One of the advantages of a meaty bone diet, is that their jaw gets so much exercise, that most dogs no longer chew on other things like sticks.
I've seen sticks go down dogs throats a few times. They run carrying one end in their mouth & the other end jams into the ground, shoving it down their throats.
My dogs always have rubber balls & toys to chase. IF they dropped a stick at my feet I'd look at them like they're an idiot & tell them to fetch their ball, hahaha.

 

[NumbSkulled]

I've been looking for 100% iso for nearly twelve months. It was available in 125ml bottles for $10.50, way too expensive.
Eventually I asked my hardware store to phone the manufacturers & ask if it could be bought in a larger size. Yep! 20 litres was the only other size, for $180. At $9 a liter, that's not too bad. (Anyone in Australia who needs 100% iso, it's 'Diggers' brand ordered through Mitre10)

Last night I did a trial run. It's been quite warm here but the 250ml wash still hasn't evaporated.
If I use a heat mat to quicken evaporation, are the fumes a safety issue?

 

[diabolico]

 

[diabolico]

 

[diabolico]

 

[0zymurgy]

here is an attempt to share and inspire with those interested in
Honeycomb Wax made with ethanol - the attached image in this post i made a while back
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=6628260&postcount=1449

The highly-procedural process produces unusually aromatic and ash-free vaping wax with a tacky play-dough consistency that snaps loud and white. Very different in experience than the usual honeycombed shatter or whipped up bho budder.

What has taken me years to admit now is that the terpenes that 'self-nucleate' to create this wax are only available for a short time, maybe 12 weeks if not vacuum sealed or frozen !?.

 

[NaturesMed420]

Hey Grey Wolf and other QWET pro's:

I am new to alcohol extractions but not new to concentrates. I am working on processing a large amount of high CBD industrial hemp. It is female only resinous flowers that I have seen 12.8% yield at 42.7% CBD from a quality BHO extraction. Starting material is around 6-7% CBD. I am having yield problems with my QWET attempts, only getting around 8% yield at 40%CBD.

My longest wash was 4 min soak followed by 1 min drain, then an immediate second soak for 4 minutes and a 3 minute drain. All of this was done inside the deep freeze at -15f. The ethanol came out with a slight green tint that turned to amber as I purged. Purging was done using a basic vacuum distillation glassware setup and a dry vac pump that pulls to -28.3 and a dry ice trap. Under this level of vacuum the solution maintained about 68-70f and boiled at different rates depending on the amount of heat applied. I did play with cranking up the heat since the solution won't actually exceed it's "vacuum level boiling point" of 70 before the ethanol is mostly gone. So it was cold boiling very rapidly. This seems to have decarbed it because it comes out very oily even after finishing at atmosphere and 115f. Terps seem to be mostly gone as well, which is a concern. But the most immediate concern is the low yield!

Temp? Is -15f too low for ethanol to get a full extraction in an 8 minute total wash time? Should I let it soak outside the deep freeze to bring it up a bit?

Intense cold boil? I have read GW saying he makes a QWET shatter by first cold boiling at -29.5 and then finishing in the vac oven. But it sure seems like my cold boil is decarbing it and always ends up oily.

Hemp material? I keep wondering if it is just a characteristic of the plant material, but the BHO yields show otherwise.... HELP! I feel like I am missing something obvious here.

Press material? From everything I have read it is not helpful for quality to press the soaked material to remove remaining ethanol. But if anyone with great results feels otherwise please speak up.


Thanks in advance!

 

[Gray Wolf]

Hey Grey Wolf and other QWET pro's:

I am new to alcohol extractions but not new to concentrates. I am working on processing a large amount of high CBD industrial hemp. It is female only resinous flowers that I have seen 12.8% yield at 42.7% CBD from a quality BHO extraction. Starting material is around 6-7% CBD. I am having yield problems with my QWET attempts, only getting around 8% yield at 40%CBD.

My longest wash was 4 min soak followed by 1 min drain, then an immediate second soak for 4 minutes and a 3 minute drain. All of this was done inside the deep freeze at -15f. The ethanol came out with a slight green tint that turned to amber as I purged. Purging was done using a basic vacuum distillation glassware setup and a dry vac pump that pulls to -28.3 and a dry ice trap. Under this level of vacuum the solution maintained about 68-70f and boiled at different rates depending on the amount of heat applied. I did play with cranking up the heat since the solution won't actually exceed it's "vacuum level boiling point" of 70 before the ethanol is mostly gone. So it was cold boiling very rapidly. This seems to have decarbed it because it comes out very oily even after finishing at atmosphere and 115f. Terps seem to be mostly gone as well, which is a concern. But the most immediate concern is the low yield!

Temp? Is -15f too low for ethanol to get a full extraction in an 8 minute total wash time? Should I let it soak outside the deep freeze to bring it up a bit?

Intense cold boil? I have read GW saying he makes a QWET shatter by first cold boiling at -29.5 and then finishing in the vac oven. But it sure seems like my cold boil is decarbing it and always ends up oily.

Hemp material? I keep wondering if it is just a characteristic of the plant material, but the BHO yields show otherwise.... HELP! I feel like I am missing something obvious here.

Press material? From everything I have read it is not helpful for quality to press the soaked material to remove remaining ethanol. But if anyone with great results feels otherwise please speak up.


Thanks in advance!

Starting with material and history, high CBD concentrates are typically oilier than a high THCA extract, so I wouldn’t expect to end up with shatter.

Cold boiling at 70F shouldn’t appreciably decarboxylate your material. It is easy enough to check, by placing some on a hot nail and watching for the C02 fizz.

Material condition affects end product, but can also affect extraction rates. If you examine the trichomes under a 100X microscope, you will see that all plant scapes aren’t created equal.

Some have big trichomes heads, some larger numbers of smaller heads, and some will have the heads more or less melted and smeared all over its surroundings. Extracting that range of different conditions, calls for more than one technique.

Both the large heads and smaller heads are relatively easy to work with, but the smeared heads not so much, if your goal is pristine museum quality bragging rights concentrates. It is easier with a non-polar solvent that isn’t in love with chlorophyll.

The high CBD strains that we run, have smaller heads, and a lower total yield than the high THC strains. Our lowest yield of record was 5.7% from a high CBD strain.

-15F isn’t too low to extract, but extraction rates do slow down. If you have already found the limits before greening, pushing the first two soaks will ostensibly prove counterproductive, so you might consider a third soak, kept separate from the first two.

You can degrade some chlorophyll with UV light, turning light electric green to amber, but it isn’t a panacea for gross chlorophyll extraction.

 

[NaturesMed420]

Grey Wolf, first of all I must thank you for your response, and for the multitude of knowledge, open source experimentation, and of course patience that you have made available to all of us over the years. Skunk Pharm is a light I continually trust and turn to. I bow and prostrate in gratitude Guruji!

Smeared Trichome heads - I'm not really sure what you mean by "melted and smeared" trichome heads. I took a look at magnification and I'm not sure I would describe them in that way. However I am aware that most of the CBD genetics around are of similar origin, so maybe I do have what you describe as smeared trichome heads. Is it your experience then that this type of resin is better extracted using butane because the alcohol soaks take too long and end up grabbing chlorophyll?

Terp Loss: I am wondering about terp boiling points under vacuum. When doing a cold boil do you find that you lose all terps that would have been lost at ethanol's normal boiling point(174f)? Or more directly, are the boiling points of terps reduced under vacuum to the same degree as ethanol?

Consistency and Decarb: I hear what you're saying about CBD extracts being oily, that is my experience with them from butane as well. My aim currently is for use in edible and topical products so decarboxylation will be necessary and shatter consistency is not of concern. However I do look forward to experimenting with some personal THC QWET shatter! It seems you are correct though that it has not significantly decarbed during the cold boil. I think I jumped the gun making those assumptions as I hadn't yet "finished" an extraction by decarbing it because I kept getting hung up on my low yield!

Extraction Goal: All that being said my goal is not "museum quality CBD concentrates", I am looking for a PALATABLE and EFFICIENT method of alcohol extraction. Legality and volume preclude butane, expense and volume precludes Co2, so I am now attempting to wrap myself around alcohol techniques. Are there any methods to improve QWET edible flavor aside from shorter soaks?

YIELD: I am working on my next QWET test, I cannot say that I have definitely reached the greening limits yet with ethanol. In QWISO experimentation it is very easy to "over green", even at -15f. All the light green tint I have gotten with ethanol has turned to amber with ease, but I assume there is a threshold where it will begin to look like a neglected batch of QWISO! This QWET run was two 10 minute soaks inside the deep freeze(-15). Surprisingly to my eye it was not much greener than the 4 minute soaks. It is evap-ing now, so we shall see.....

An afterthought on yield and amount of solvent: After reviewing Grey Wolf’s Pharm instructions and posts he suggests filling the wash vessel to from an inch to a couple inches over the level of plant material. For my trails I have been forcing 5 ounces of flower through 1/8” hardware cloth and loading into a liter mason jar for wash. It does not require packing but it fills the thing pretty solidly. Consequently, the level of ethanol has only come up to probably ¼” over the material. Maybe this is contributing to my yield issue….?

 

[Gray Wolf]

Grey Wolf, first of all I must thank you for your response, and for the multitude of knowledge, open source experimentation, and of course patience that you have made available to all of us over the years. Skunk Pharm is a light I continually trust and turn to. I bow and prostrate in gratitude Guruji!

Smeared Trichome heads - I'm not really sure what you mean by "melted and smeared" trichome heads. I took a look at magnification and I'm not sure I would describe them in that way.

The trichomes we seek have round balls on the top of sticks. A melted and smeared trichome has an irregular shaped head and the landscape around it it is smeared with resin.

However I am aware that most of the CBD genetics around are of similar origin, so maybe I do have what you describe as smeared trichome heads. Is it your experience then that this type of resin is better extracted using butane because the alcohol soaks take too long and end up grabbing chlorophyll?

Yes.

Terp Loss: I am wondering about terp boiling points under vacuum. When doing a cold boil do you find that you lose all terps that would have been lost at ethanol's normal boiling point(174f)? Or more directly, are the boiling points of terps reduced under vacuum to the same degree as ethanol?

The monoterpenes form azeotropes with the alcohol and leave below their boiling points. If you recover the alcohol, it will be a terpene rich gin.

Consistency and Decarb: I hear what you're saying about CBD extracts being oily, that is my experience with them from butane as well. My aim currently is for use in edible and topical products so decarboxylation will be necessary and shatter consistency is not of concern. However I do look forward to experimenting with some personal THC QWET shatter! It seems you are correct though that it has not significantly decarbed during the cold boil. I think I jumped the gun making those assumptions as I hadn't yet "finished" an extraction by decarbing it because I kept getting hung up on my low yield!

Extraction Goal: All that being said my goal is not "museum quality CBD concentrates", I am looking for a PALATABLE and EFFICIENT method of alcohol extraction. Legality and volume preclude butane, expense and volume precludes Co2, so I am now attempting to wrap myself around alcohol techniques. Are there any methods to improve QWET edible flavor aside from shorter soaks?

Edible flavor is actually improved by reducing/removing many of the monoterpenes. Some don't taste all that good in concentration.

YIELD: I am working on my next QWET test, I cannot say that I have definitely reached the greening limits yet with ethanol. In QWISO experimentation it is very easy to "over green", even at -15f. All the light green tint I have gotten with ethanol has turned to amber with ease, but I assume there is a threshold where it will begin to look like a neglected batch of QWISO! This QWET run was two 10 minute soaks inside the deep freeze(-15). Surprisingly to my eye it was not much greener than the 4 minute soaks. It is evap-ing now, so we shall see.....

An afterthought on yield and amount of solvent: After reviewing Grey Wolf’s Pharm instructions and posts he suggests filling the wash vessel to from an inch to a couple inches over the level of plant material. For my trails I have been forcing 5 ounces of flower through 1/8” hardware cloth and loading into a liter mason jar for wash. It does not require packing but it fills the thing pretty solidly. Consequently, the level of ethanol has only come up to probably ¼” over the material. Maybe this is contributing to my yield issue….?

If you are only 1/4" over 1/8" particle size, I would suggest reducing the material and increasing the alcohol.

I usually don't reduce my material much when extracting with EtOH, to minimize the number of broken cell boundaries exposed to the polar solvent. You might try breaking it up into ~ 1/2" chunks and soaking longer.

 

[Sforza]

Thanks GW for the information in this thread. Noticed your distillation setup to recover the ethanol and I built my own. Now I find out that the alcohol that I am recovering is a terpene rich gin. I am using 190 proof Everclear. There are some losses of alcohol inevitably, but at least I am able to reuse most of the alcohol.

Following your procedures prettly closely, except that after I do the quick filter through the mesh, I do another filter using a coffee basket. After putting it back in the freezer for a few hours, I then filter it through a paper coffee filter. It takes a while to do the filter through the paper filter, probably because the waxes and oils are plugging the pores of the paper, so I put the filtered material back in the freezer overnight and do one more filter though the paper filter, which goes faster the second time around. At that point, I just boil off the alcohol until the material is almost reduced to an oil. Then I let the final amount of ethanol evaporate in the open air under gentle heat. The product is oily and strong. I like it and those who I have shared it with like it too.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Thanks GW for the information in this thread. Noticed your distillation setup to recover the ethanol and I built my own. Now I find out that the alcohol that I am recovering is a terpene rich gin. I am using 190 proof Everclear. There are some losses of alcohol inevitably, but at least I am able to reuse most of the alcohol.

Following your procedures prettly closely, except that after I do the quick filter through the mesh, I do another filter using a coffee basket. After putting it back in the freezer for a few hours, I then filter it through a paper coffee filter. It takes a while to do the filter through the paper filter, probably because the waxes and oils are plugging the pores of the paper, so I put the filtered material back in the freezer overnight and do one more filter though the paper filter, which goes faster the second time around. At that point, I just boil off the alcohol until the material is almost reduced to an oil. Then I let the final amount of ethanol evaporate in the open air under gentle heat. The product is oily and strong. I like it and those who I have shared it with like it too.

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Thanks for the good thoughts brother!

Yup, it is a gin, but still works good for the purpose, don't it?

How much additional wax are you recovering between the first and second filtration?

Oily and strong is about how our's typically turns out with no vacuum finish, also with a slight sweet background taste from residual ethanol. Faster to reach FDA residual solvent standards with vacuum, in addition to moderate heat.

 

[Sforza]

Thanks for the good thoughts brother!

Yup, it is a gin, but still works good for the purpose, don't it?

How much additional wax are you recovering between the first and second filtration?

Oily and strong is about how our's typically turns out with no vacuum finish, also with a slight sweet background taste from residual ethanol. Faster to reach FDA residual solvent standards with vacuum, in addition to moderate heat.

Yes, it does the job. At 190 proof, it is a bit too strong to drink neat.

I am not really seeing any wax in either of the first or second filter using the paper filters. It is just that the it takes a long time the first time through the paper filter, which gives the liquid time to warm up. I am guessing that it is wax that is causing the pores of the paper to become block, slowing down the filtering process. The paper filter seems sort of shiny and oily after the first filtering, so I presume that the wax is being caught by the paper, but it is not as if there is some filtrate that I can observe on the paper. The second filtering goes much faster and the liquid stays cold the entire time. The filter paper does have a bit of an oily sheen when the filtering is finished. But the oil/ethanol solution is more clear after the second filtering, so I think I am removing a bit of wax.

I am sure that a vacuum would help boil off the ethanol at a lower temperature and eliminate the residual ethanol in the oil. But on a very small scale, it is fun to recover some goodness from the trim that would otherwise go to waste.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Yes, it does the job. At 190 proof, it is a bit too strong to drink neat.

I am not really seeing any wax in either of the first or second filter using the paper filters. It is just that the it takes a long time the first time through the paper filter, which gives the liquid time to warm up. I am guessing that it is wax that is causing the pores of the paper to become block, slowing down the filtering process. The paper filter seems sort of shiny and oily after the first filtering, so I presume that the wax is being caught by the paper, but it is not as if there is some filtrate that I can observe on the paper. The second filtering goes much faster and the liquid stays cold the entire time. The filter paper does have a bit of an oily sheen when the filtering is finished. But the oil/ethanol solution is more clear after the second filtering, so I think I am removing a bit of wax.

I am sure that a vacuum would help boil off the ethanol at a lower temperature and eliminate the residual ethanol in the oil. But on a very small scale, it is fun to recover some goodness from the trim that would otherwise go to waste.

The waxes are have a low dielectric constant, so polar solvents like Ethanol are not as prone to extract them as non polar solvents like Butane.

 

[Sforza]

Thanks Grey Wolf. You are a fountain of knowledge on all things concentrated.

I skipped the step of after reducing the oil down the first time, to redissolve the oil into ethanol, chill and filter again, then do a final reduction. Since we are smoking the oil I am producing and not eating it, is it OK to not do that step. I mean I know it is OK, since the oil is good, but would the oil be any stronger or better if we followed that step or is that primarily done for oil that is going to be consumed as an edible for medical reasons?

 

[Gray Wolf]

Thanks Grey Wolf. You are a fountain of knowledge on all things concentrated.

I skipped the step of after reducing the oil down the first time, to redissolve the oil into ethanol, chill and filter again, then do a final reduction. Since we are smoking the oil I am producing and not eating it, is it OK to not do that step. I mean I know it is OK, since the oil is good, but would the oil be any stronger or better if we followed that step or is that primarily done for oil that is going to be consumed as an edible for medical reasons?

I typically vacuum filter through a #1 Whatman lab filter once and call it good.

Pharmer Joe and I did filter the samples we did for the High Times article down to 0.2 for bragging rights samples. There is no question that removing the suspended particles, including colloidial suspensions, improves clarity.