question for sam the skunkman on the original haze

[jessethestoner]

looks like a pic from the vintage marijuana pictures thread

 

[MadMac]

ThaiStick(Gypsy) x OHz ... a purple wonder ... not much space left...
thx uncle @Sam_Skunkman ... for the hint to cross with a landrace to get old glory back...
and than bx to the Queen makes it perfect hazy and even stronger...
same result with Colombian Black... makes it even more hazy...
and bx than to my reversed queen was a key point in my breeding pleasure..
no looser's...
and btw.... your Skunk#1 triploid is killer too... taste and high...
but i'll crossed the best with my reversed Queen... and bam..
10 weeks and a full hazy skunk pleasure..
see yourself...
SK#1(trip) x OHz S1

loving it... and so much more to discover.... but the haze ... still blown away ...
everything it touches becomes better... also inbreed genetics like Jack or Doors shine after touching the haze... the high becomes much more pleasant and longer lasting...
next year i'll do a selection of the last OHz you gave me...
i'm so curious...
many thx again... your lessons, seeds and breeding work made me mastering this adventure ...
and is a huge gift to our community!
i'm in sativa heaven now... and by all i've grown... OHz is the Queen of the sativa heaven.

get hazed... it's time now ;-)
M.

 

[harvestreaper]

good to see you getting your well earned rewards @MadMac

a promising prospect ,,todds haze3 x mango laos

 

[flower~power]

I spend my days in a Daze

 

[harvestreaper]

she maybe wispy but shell be cherished all the same ,,still goin,,

 

[harvestreaper]

todds pheno 7 <fruity metal >

todds pheno 3 <leather fruit>

thh 3 <sour metal>,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,all 3 bred to mm original haze male 7

 

[TINY RASCAL]

For many years now I have been a member of the various forums, and I have read much information on all of the more legendary varietys in the world. I have grown more famous Dutch lines than you shake a stick at and have seen some varietys hyped well beyond their means and some varietys that were very good, despite their lack of attention among the masses.


The Nevilles Haze is said to be originated from the earliest Haze stock available. The lines are said to trace back to genetics from 1969. There are indeed many documented grow reports on the Nevilles Haze which support its description as some of the best in the world.


The Flying Dutchmen Original Haze is not as old as the Nevilles Haze lines I have read, and definitely has a lack of grow reports to back up the legendary status this variety has. Also interesting to note the Dutchmen Original Haze is much faster then Pure Haze is generally given credit for. For many years now the Dutchmen Original Haze has been available, but very few grow reports have documented its life cycle.

You can have people tell you its LSD marijuana all you want, but if that was the truth and the Original Haze was that good it would be grown more frequently then the various Kush lines on the boards.


I remain unconvinced the Original Haze is as good as many say it is. Where are the grow reports? The numerous first hand accounts of the dutchmens genetics?


No disrespect to anybody, but you have to stop and think sometimes.

The Flying Dutchmen's "Original Haze" is a pure sativa cross. I'd smoke some in early year 2000 that a friend grew from "The Flying Dutchmen" unlike "Neville's Haze" which have some indica in it. You probably got yourself a fake Flying Dutchmen's "Original Haze" dude. Your personal failure is not the "WORLD'S FACT"!

It look exactly like this (saw it from start to finish). The best "HAZE" I'd smoked in Europe.

But definitely not like this! Some kinda shitty dark "Original Haze". The Original Haze is a light green from start to end! With a lil sour scent to it.
GOD, them f..kin' LIARS!!!

 

[willydread]

The Flying Dutchmen's "Original Haze" is a pure sativa cross. I'd smoke some in early year 2000 that a friend grew from "The Flying Dutchmen" unlike "Neville's Haze" which have some indica in it. You probably got yourself a fake Flying Dutchmen's "Original Haze" dude. Your personal failure is not the "WORLD'S FACT"!

I can only tell you that you should buy a pack now and grow it, things have changed a lot since the early 2000s…

 

[Taima-da]

I had thought one of the traits of true untainted haze is high degree of phenotype expression, so two plants from same parental line may differ significantly. That's why it is said that one in forty or so are truly great, mostly really good and one or two mehs from the same seed.(?)

 

[LostTribe]

I had thought one of the traits of true untainted haze is high degree of phenotype expression, so two plants from same parental line may differ significantly. That's why it is said that one in forty or so are truly great, mostly really good and one or two mehs from the same seed.(?)

True.

 

[TheDarkStorm]

I'm not sure but I would bet that photo belongs to positronics.
I remember reading here or in another post that someone asked Sam about haze from positronics.
He said that haze 19 was the one they liked and about the male he said he did not know what they used.
So, either they looked for a haze male from the original sam seeds that I don't know if they had OH seeds or they used another male that we don't know which one it is.
Tom Hill got the haze in 1995 and this positronics catalog is from 1996.
Flowering times don't match tom hill haze.
Either they lied about flowering times or they sold tom different haze seeds than the ones they would sell a year later...
If you look closely, they have haze19 x skunk#1 in the catalog just like the photo. That plant comes out planted. Will it be a photo of when they made the crossing?

The only person who could make ohz in Holland and you could by seeds off was sam or sam threw flying Dutchman....Sam gave afew people the option of his clones...but with conditions they couldn't make pure ohz or crosses with his viraties.......im not sure why other breeders cant work things out logically or cant see traits properly.....so sam from seeds from 1976 in Holland makes his ohz and everything called ohz in Holland comes from this work of sams...and you have one coming from possi using a clone from this work of sams....but what possi call haze has additional traits that none of sams haze have neither did the haze brothers ohz have....none of the guys who left posi to open other places have a pure ohz.....so work it out...its simple logic....if the additional traits only appear in the line in Holland and dont match traits from the past then those traits have been added in Holland....and are not found in sams haze seeds or haze bros haze.....no hating...people can still enjoy it...treasure it ect ect....but still its just logic and facts...and very simple to see and work out......mac has done some good work with it so those that want to can still enjoy it....

 

[acespicoli]

I had thought one of the traits of true untainted haze is high degree of phenotype expression, so two plants from same parental line may differ significantly. That's why it is said that one in forty or so are truly great, mostly really good and one or two mehs from the same seed.(?)

5% one in twenty iirc, guess its how discriminating you are I may have to see your selections

 

[MadMac]

The only person who could make ohz in Holland and you could by seeds off was sam or sam threw flying Dutchman....Sam gave afew people the option of his clones...but with conditions they couldn't make pure ohz or crosses with his viraties.......im not sure why other breeders cant work things out logically or cant see traits properly.....so sam from seeds from 1976 in Holland makes his ohz and everything called ohz in Holland comes from this work of sams...and you have one coming from possi using a clone from this work of sams....but what possi call haze has additional traits that none of sams haze have neither did the haze brothers ohz have....none of the guys who left posi to open other places have a pure ohz.....so work it out...its simple logic....if the additional traits only appear in the line in Holland and dont match traits from the past then those traits have been added in Holland....and are not found in sams haze seeds or haze bros haze.....no hating...people can still enjoy it...treasure it ect ect....but still its just logic and facts...and very simple to see and work out......mac has done some good work with it so those that want to can still enjoy it....

wow yes .... !
that's the short story and all true...
later there was
@Golli preserved the old line
@JohnnyChicago preserved and bred with the seedsman line
and also oldtimer1 OHz that Dubi bred later

and Tom of course but that's not the pure OHz line... maybe with thai or something other

a few quotes from Oldtimer1:

OT-Haze

Time 03:49, 26 Dec 1998
From oldtimer1
I don't have any pure haze mums any more I lost them 8 or 9 years ago to a Borg
attack. This is a point worth making all the sat vars that I have tried are very
susceptible to the two spot mite. So as far as growing sats are concerned a clean
house is needed. I did haveloads of h seeds but over the years have given
them away and Iím sorry to say no one made a go of it with them. In our climate it
needs dedication and to be a good gardener to boot. To grow with tropicals
indoors and under lighting, well totally different techniques are needed but to my
mind they are worth it. This year I have passed on most of what I had left of my h
seed stock to a friend and if he is successful the strain may carry on we will see. I
do have some mums from a series of crosses made between h and ss of which hd
is one, its my fav smoke and takes 9 to 10 w on 12 h. I have great respect for
Nevil and if the fastest is 14 weeks there isn't much nl in there. Small mottled
seeds sound like the right thing too, they sound like a good bet to me and well
worth trying. The main prob with haze is with so much inbreeding you only get 5 to
10% of really exceptional ones so loads need growing to get a really good one. I
suspect Nevil crossed h to a non dom nl then back crossed to h again the idea
being to remove the inbreeding depression without affecting the haze character.
This is only supposition but its the route I would take if I had the space and the
time.

Quote from one of the BC guys who got the ot1 seeds.

The 'Pure Haze' lines discussed in the thread on CW and at our site are from a differing line of 'Haze' from California in the '60s and not the same as the 'Haze Brothers' legendry 'Origional Haze' lines..


Originally Posted by Oldtimer1 at bcg forum

My haze was brought here [uk] from the states during its development it was still being developed field scale and may not represent the finished product. From what I have gleaned the nearest to the real thing on sale in Europe was sold by Wernard of Positronics. After he went bankrupt his stock and seed Co was taken over by Dutch passion / Home grown fantaseeds. Both these seed banks are run by relatives. The thing is that the spec for their haze has been changed from posies one in a big reduction on the finish time on 12/12. I suspect they have made a cross to a non dom indica.The thing is if you want to grow real haze it takes 12 to 16 weeks on 12/12 the very best being the late ones. The only other Haze that may have some of the original one in could be Nevils haze but greenhouse haven't published its spec yet but once again I suspect it will have indica added we will see. Most the other so called haze are lambs breath and Thai crosses. In fact in Holland haze has become a generic term for a sat with a strong up high.


oldtimer1
Apr 6 2004, 01:44 AM
nav I was and am, a do nothing no account as far as general society is concerned.

I have not found a modern var I would keep, I have to say I have not tried that many, most of my genetics come from before there were any seed banks.

Of modern I thought romberry and C99 were good efforts, but neither had the quality of high I look for. I would give them maybe 4 or 5 out of ten. I grew out over a 100 sensi seed bank Jack Herer when they first came out. Not one even made 1 out of 10 in my books.

M.

 

[acespicoli]

photo by ot


Just a quick update I'm often asked about the variety of types found in my Oldtimes, you don't get many of these but this was a great favourite of mine, it smelt of a rich fruit salad come fruit cake, it had a sweet lingering feel in the mouth and a souring way up high that just lasted and lasted. Only a small sidie but I my eyes beautiful. - ot

 

[bigherb]

Much love and Respect to All my Haze brothers, thank you all for your contributions It’s great to still see passion burning in this thread


Sams did not make an Original Haze line . Sams did open pollinations during certain time periods to preserve the Original Haze .

We can only assume timelines from our Evidences because he chooses not to share specifics



There is no Mexican Thai or S.Indian in Original Haze . It’s Amazing how many NEW YouTube videos and Haze histories are still written with this MISINFORMATION



76 catalog sacred seeds -OP

81 cultivators choice - OP

90’s private stock - Madmac might know because I believe he acquired seed from Sams latest OP



A lot of what has been said is still not clear and we can still only assume things .



Remember Sams was not there in Santa Cruz in 69 he didn’t return until 71 .



Sams shared the story from J and RL of multiple Colombians used to create OH.



G is the originator Of Original Haze



J was a helper of G according to Sams

RL was a partner of G , RL was not there in 69 but I believe a year or 2 later G partnered with RL because he had a green house



Interesting topic , I know a few can answer from personal experiences



Someone recently asked if Old timers Haze and Original Haze were related . My thoughts were clear many years ago .

I believe they are very very closely related

Original Haze - Santa Cruz

Punto Rojo - Cannabiogen

Old timers Haze - Ace seeds



All share many similarities from

Growth / flower time / colors/ structure/ taste / smell / effects



I don’t have personal experience but some IC fam does . But what we all have is evidence and proof on the Net. There are many threads on various forums of punto Rojo from cbg and other sources



It would be great to have more details and specifics especially on dates from all sources .



According to OT About 89-1990 he lost all his Haze moms . Im curious exactly when he acquired the stock , we can only assume unless we have more post of specifics . I know there is / was a lot of post from OT at Cw if I recall



Its said his Haze stock is from the 60’s .



Soo what we know is Haze was grown by G from 69-81 in Santa Cruz . We know that the plants were great producers and over the years inbreeding caused smaller yields and wispier flowers



In my opinion it causes further confusion or conflict that the old timers stock is from the first development.

From what I’ve seen OT Haze is a vigorous beast but does not produce big flowers of the early haze .

We can go deeper and it creates more questions but I think we have enough evidence after all this time



I believe a major factor ,How big of a part does / did growing these Hazes indoor to traditionally growing Haze outdoor/ greenhouse . In regards to full potential, flower size and weight. I believe if we all grew these Hazes today in there preferred climate you would see more healthy bountiful harvest



Kinda like Nevils Nl5Hz description saying the Haze collected in the USA was from the last haze crops . Well it was from Sams seed stock and Nevil said to be of a 69 seed stock batch



Not trying to deter from the plant but we can see from the past to now how different sources , timelines and facts and marketing don’t always align

1luvbigherb

 

[Big Nasty]

I think there are good yielders in ot1 that under big lights or outdoor can really do great,it is for sure a line worth exploring.
This was mostly pine,metallic and cedarwood with a hint of lemon,20 weeks under a small 250 w,nice energetic high.
The other one was not good at all.

 

[@hempy]

The only person who could make ohz in Holland and you could by seeds off was sam or sam threw flying Dutchman....Sam gave afew people the option of his clones...but with conditions they couldn't make pure ohz or crosses with his viraties.....

Why would any one get clones from Sam if they couldn't use them to breed with Dark ?

Nevil had the ability to make and then sell pure Haze but didn't because the seed made with the pure Haze didn't produce the quality of the parents Nevils wards.

OT1 line is not Haze and it is not related to the line Sam brought to Holland even OT1 posted that.

The person responsible for preserving that sat line was called WolfMan he got the un known sat line from OT1 germinated the seed made fresh seed and then past it to 10 growers in the mr nice forum at cannabis world ACE seed being one.

Fet / Shanti / ACE and 7 others got given seed for free.

 

[acespicoli]

Fet / Shanti / ACE and 7 others got given seed for free... and out of all those how many shared it?
Its unbelievable the only one I see is @dubi he really is keeping the sativas alive and well !

Oldtimer's Haze ACE Seeds - site pics
Interesting the green phenos resemble the lumbo gold
The purple pheno seems to lean towards the thai

 

[@hempy]

Good question i know shanti grew them out and then culled them.

I do remember some were reproduced and past around by a few in the back ground.

OT1 was growing Portronics Haze at the time.

 

[flylowgethigh]

Johnny Chicago has been spreading some Haze love.