Pure Thai Sativas

[romanoweed]

do it, i want it black on white

but do we have analysis from 50s Thai?

 

[achille]

Hello everyone, just jumping in the conversation here. Im super new to this site so still learning the norms. I see people mentioning zomia collective and i had to post. Last year I ordered some squirrel tail #4 from zomia collective. When the second set of leaves came out with 5 blades, I knew I had found a good sativa.

I cloned and sent the mother to my buddy so we could flower and I could focus on cloning.

First picture is directly from seed, second pic is one of my newly rooted clone.

Welcome ! Nice plant !
I ordered the Phu Phan "Squirel Tail/Hang Krarok" #1 and received some Phon Sawan "Squirel Tail/Hang Krarok" #4 as freebies, I can't wait to try these.

 

[Donald Mallard]

I am no betting man but I feel I could want to start by throwing down $20 that genetic analysis proves this Thai is an identical genotype from the 1950s.

g. https://www.icmag.com/threads/rscs-bokeo.17902198/page-3

haha ,
im sure its pretty similar , looks very thai ...

 

[Legalcdn]

As this a thai thread, has anyone grown the new Thai from ace? It's apparently from Chiang Mai.

Thai

SOUTHEAST ASIAN LANDRACE SATIVA PAR EXCELLENCE https://www.aceseeds.org/en/thairegularseeds.html If we had to choose a single sativa among the genetic jewels offered by Southeast Asia, it would undoubtedly be a fine Thai like this, due to its high quality and worldwide relevance. A...

www.icmag.com

There was also an old thread referencing the genetics.

Thai from Chiang Mai

A small test of a new Thai from Chiang Mai area, in north Thailand. It was grown almost without attentions, trying to tame her like a bonsai or a small clone. It was started from seed in late spring, grew in a small 1 liter pot for the whole summer and only in late summer after sexing was...

www.icmag.com

 

[Taima-da]

Though identical to Southern, Northern, Central, East or West?
Recognising that each location will have a slightly different environmental epigenetic response and therefore expression.
Thailand is a kingdom after all and some variation is to be expected, even then.
People moving from East to west, in and out of the county, down from China etc.
The old Indian legends talk of trading and travel to far off places in the east that are clearly in Indonesia and Buddhist tradition made it as far as the island of Bali and the southern Philippines. Thailand is en route.
so evidently there was no single "pure" Thai, but a genetic mosaic.
some expressions may indeed be lost but as new valuable expressions arise it takes somebody to recognise, value and reproduce them.
I would argue that if vigour was a valued trait then f1s would be integrated into the local genotype quite regularly when they occurred. the progeny become part of the localised unique identity after some generations.
this is why northern Lao differs from Southern, the ingress of genes from the north, bought by hill tribes and integrated into the local tropical genotype.
this is also how those rare South African alleles make it into "pure" Nigerian and Colombian stock.
Don't forget most of the lines on the map that we imagine define an area of purity are the result of colonial powers creating arbitrary divisions- fairly recently in terms of the time scales we are talking.
you never needed a passport to cross imaginary barriers, you just went and took your stash with you.

not trying to stir the pot but just stating what seems fairly straightforward

 

[GrandpaMillenial]

Welcome ! Nice plant !
I ordered the Phu Phan "Squirel Tail/Hang Krarok" #1 and received some Phon Sawan "Squirel Tail/Hang Krarok" #4 as freebies, I can't wait to try these.

Thank you achille,

I received some freebies of the Laotian, Muang Xai.

I am growing this Hang Krarok along side Ace's Panama and a DJ Short Flo.

My buddy had a spare tent so we threw the plants started from seed into flower to determine the sex of these plants. We started with a 36 hour dark period and a light schedule of 10/14.

It took almost 3 weeks for flowers to appear on the Thai and she has already tripled in size with sparse flower sites. Now ending week 4 the Thai girl keeps stretching, the Panama has formed some nice clusters and Flo is building trichomes.

We ended up with a Flo male so we decided to pollinate the entire grow as we are just learning about these plants. We are on the 42nd parallel so we need something that begins flowering a little earlier for future outdoor grows.

Hopefully I can get over there tomorrow and get some more pics of the more mature girl.

 

[romanoweed]

Though identical to Southern, Northern, Central, East or West?
Recognising that each location will have a slightly different environmental epigenetic response and therefore expression.

LISTEN . i said the tropical Belt shows one of the most oustanding Ganja. right?
YES, absolutely consistent the Tropical Belt shows multiple places with the best cannabis, PLUS some places not.. Some places may not have selected for , well, in a very clear Direction..
Or another point.. I said , or ment a certain tropical Climate created the best.. IF you can, try to holt it imaginary upright, some the best cannabis came from tropics, true? false? how often true? how often false?
Further determining Etensions, romano says its a certain climate>tropics, so, could he mean it more detailled>but didnt wanna write 10 million words,> has he> oh ,ment a certain climate, probably montains, certain soil, tropical heat.. > now makes more sense..
Oh and like Wine wich only grows on lime stone, so he speaks about terroir? > yes, i feel thats what he ment.


So, mostly the best needed mountains..dont ask me what exactly..

Point is, no HYbrid, literally none has zero Tropical Cannabis in it,

And what Romano says is that basically the climate was important.. But i . Taima-da hold against it, tell him its not always,
And i Taima-de think its hybredized, do i find proove? i claim everything is hybrid, so what this mens is, i Taimada declare ALL those spots that Romano couldnt eplain the "holes" of not soooo special cannabis Hybrids, but i Taima-da see it as hybrids, those holes, so.. that menas i describe a less sought after Cannabis like a Mid Thailand Strain as Culturally explained.. Its the mindset, or call it the Intention (hemp, medicine, recreational/recreational for relaxation/ speaking with gods).

So that means that i Tama-da have an explonation that Romano doesent.. wohoo
Do i?

So, here comes i. I didnt mean to tell you Taimada that its so unprecisely formulated "Tropics" i meant of corse other factors such as Mountains, soil , and so on aswell..

Also, the same explonation as you probably think, that its cultural i can give too..

Yes, i can explain it , by "peoples didnt always select for the right purpose", so of corse some became hempyer, often mixed purposes.

OH OH, Taima-da jumping up, romano admitted the selection has impact.
There i say, no.. the selection process behaves more like a condition, that cant be left out, but i say, its not as Individual as you imagine it.
Per example afhani, a very sought after Cultivar, was selected in whole batches, for hash effects. prett big differences, still, when i smoked afghani, it had something that felt very similar, Namely, a certain LAndracyness.. Thats for you to decide what that means, dont expect me to explain this, but i almost am reminded of people that speak of,, how is this called in Wine per example? it has body? cant remeber, but a certain Thing, that i dont want to try to put into words..

So, slightly different Afghani processes lead to somthing that i felt is very dimilar to other Landraces.. Also similar to other Species like Coffe, and a Beans Landrace i once ate (dont know if it was Landrace actually, but it was old Cultivar for shure).

So, again, in my Theory, a good selection is more of a rewuirement, but a very open requirement, that means, as long as somebody selects soley for the more recreational/medicinal traits, then God says, all good, here you have our tripweed..

Do i understand your critique point, yes, do i find it very well discussed? well, all i can say that if i follow my thinking, with the Terroir as first priority, and the humans that roundabout select for these recreational/medical traits, then its all fine.

And in fact, i know in vietnam lowland per example they selected rather for cattlefeed! so, yes, if you select for noteffects, you do get noteffects..
And in fact, there, were are more trades, acording my theory, there is not hundert percent the best cannabis..
I think that pattern became pretty, almost astoundingly clear (probably i should have explained that in northern Africa there is desert, and therefore there is just rather nocannabisland.. so.)

So, that is the third factor why not everywhere in the explicit Climate (tropical temperature, certain soil , certain Terroir just)..

---------------
Or the other way around, you Taima-da, just imply, it was often hybredized to some extent, wich defined the quality, there were also Mindsets , Culture wich defined quality, but you TAima-da dont bring a proove. Proove means to fnd an explonation, and find it in reality, fin d your theory embodyed in Things..
I have zero of that from you.. Of corse you could be absolutely right, but thats about it.. Could be. No problem.

I on the other hand see my Theory as possibly showing in reality.. Do i see 100 percent proove? no! hell no. Do i see a certain tendency, that its majorly about Climatical /Terroir aspects, and on a lower level, but also importantly Mindset, ?

Slightly.

 

[Taima-da]

It's all cool man.
I agree totally that environment adapts the plant.
No question.
It's just that, as earlier noted by someone else, in places with feral crops such as many Indian locations, the wild grown is generally not even considered to be in the same league as treasured heirloom cultivars.

 

[Taima-da]

In fact you have cemented in my mind the primary importance of environment to the genetic expression, over mere selection.
You're right.

 

[romanoweed]

so evidently there was no single "pure" Thai, but a genetic mosaic.

So, yes, there is even DNA evidence that there was some hybridisation (probably form India) that reaches till THE SOUTHERN PART of Thailand..
Thaistick came from further north , Vietnamese, the strongest weed i know, was rather untouched too. Look up the map again.

So, first: If this hybridisation happend long ago, then the new adaption to thailand anyway is a strong factor against HYbridisation, after the years a plant adapts and becomes sorta like a "pure" cultivar. Means wherever it came from, be it Afghani, Europena hemp, Columbian, whatever, it becomes like a "pure " cultivar..

next.

Oh, then you say there is buddhist culture.. yeh, the same eplonations..
First of all the DNA samples grandiously show that the most sought after regions like Thaistickregion and Dalat werent touched. If i recall right.. Again, look the Map i showed, ive seen a more detailled dna map, but am just to sick to uload it for you,

Next.

Thenn you say its kinda a hybrid vigor that they always whatned, and therefore Landraces were outcrossed sometimes to refresh.(hypothetical)
Nope..
You take your knowledge from todays growchambers, where we see that the absense of big populations is what causes depression.
We see it in so far that when we take ONE single plant for next generations that inbreeding depro happens faster, than if we take TWO, or THREE, and so forth. This points simply thowards population size.. I learnd this in School as child...

NExt:

The idea that these Regions were of Collonial Influences you must proove me more. I cant shine with such knowledge. Show me correlation.. and then show me more correlation than i did.. Cause i mean these regions brought up the many beautiful fruits, haha, of corse there was colonialisation at tropical paradise,, so much at first..

-------

Your responses were intelligent, i liked it to a degree. i just dont like to write so much. cause im filling thw whole thread, thats my only problem.
But anyway.

 

[Taima-da]

But people will select for use, as you said, whether seed, fibre, flowering tops or resin production.

 

[Taima-da]

I find it interesting that we currently relate diurnal temperature variation with strength, which would seem to support your quality strain from altitude idea, yet the "best" Thailand originated from the riverine flats with much lower day/night temperature differential.
Still so much we are yet to understand about this plant we all love so dearly.
Incidentally, my experience is also that altitude brings something special.
But that might just be the limit of my experience

 

[Taima-da]

RSC Bokeo, winter run.
As described by Angus part of the Thai and broader S.E. Asian tropical expression, even though from Laos.
The river potentially not so much a barrier as a transport route

 

[romanoweed]

Here is a Worldmap with Attude View..
Tell me does some of the most magic weed come from higher Altitude tropical Climate?

I was exact, had to look up where Colubmbia is.. Also for the Mexican i have resons to believe the pointer is on the right position, around acapulco, guerro..

Thaistick is an exeption and in rather lowlands. The most others all match with high altitudes.
good Columbian came also from higher altitudes i recall..?

So, yeah, weed likes high altitudes. and tropics..

Also the more Subtropical Landraces like Afghani, Nepalese, Marrocan high altitude..

(also Malawi, Swazi, Nigerian, didnt know if i should include them into the most legendary.. slightly less legendary, high altitude all together, go figure)

 

[harvestreaper]

are you sating that the best genetics come from those areas or that that best expression of any genetic can be brought out in those high altitude enviorments ?

 

[romanoweed]

i know what you mean, but i say,
Any good Thai grown in OUR growroom will show you that it is a Thai. Even you brought it in a worse Enviroment. right?


So, nope, its not that at those Tropical Hills they just grew the same Weed as everywhere wich epressed just the best..

It is instead, that at those tropical Hills the Enviroment applied a certain selective Stimulus. (eg, they plants expressed in a certain Way, wich then lead to a certain Selection by Humans. over centuries) . (Would you bring a Plant into a colder Climate per example, then they would express different. EG. a more coldresistant pheno is what you certainly would select for.. )

. I feel like repeating, so look the Acoustics video i posted previosly, wich states that the acoustics of a played audio WILL AFFECT your decisions, it will affect how you adjust the Audiofile.
Same with Plants probably?

 

[Roms]

are you sating that the best genetics come from those areas or that that best expression of any genetic can be brought out in those high altitude enviorments ?

Absolutely yes not about the "best" but about its stronger it is. Altitude transforms genetics.

 

[romanoweed]

really, did i even need to explain this. If you grow a Thai Anywhere it will express for this first Generation in a very thai way..

Its not that i did not smoke 70s Thai, grown here in Europe..
Instead it IS a Fact that i smoked 70s Thai here in Europe.

And therefore i Know how thai feels like. I know that weed is a hallucinogenic.

Said that, its abnormal you question me if the Thai just were "normal Plants expressing different".
Cause have you never caught up with the realisation that also us Europeans are blown away by Columbian , Thai,. Or are we blown away with random Plants? no.. It gets inherited, cause the stimulus of the Enviroment, thats a plausible explonation

aaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[Roms]

Btw i think that chocolate/cigar/dark red pepper kinds of Thai are from highest elevation acclimatiz, Black/Red kinds compared to Gold/Green fruity spicy minty from valleys or sea level.. I think that also purple ends is a sign of altitude adaptation.

 

[achille]

Excerpt from "Thai Stick-Surfers, Scammers and the untold story of the marijuana trade" by Peter Maguire (very recommended read):

« …Isan is a plateau the size of New England that floods during monsoon season and is arid and dusty in the dry season. Although rice fields are hard to irrigate and do not yield much, marijuana thrives thanks to the Mekong River, whose tributaries replenish the region with rich, silty soil. « This area (Nakhon Phanom) everyone have water, but the climate and the soil somehow make this area very good. The sun very good, very nice, and the night time very cold » said one Thai who began growing there in 1966. « If you grow same plant, same seed another place, have different taste. » »