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Pure Thai Sativas
- Thread starter Samson4
- Start date
This is a great point. Not just about temp humidity etc. Fungi!bacterial soil pest control heavy metal content in soil herbivores ozone dli they all make a landrace bt reacting withe lignin/phenolpropanoid pathway. I think popping beans under plasma can put them on track but also treatment with methyl jasminate abscic acid chitin all induce reactionary metabolites. Plants inside don't have these reactions gor most part
romanoweed
Well-known member
i would not describe myselve as confused. The point is, once these guys included "Tradition" into Terroir-Factors, i cleard up that its possible the Climatic Factors alone that show correlation with Expressions of a Plant. lol
If you watch the Videos i linked, they didnt list a single Traditional Correlation.. So imho, its an interesting thing to exclude Tradition from Terroir, IN ORDER to find more truth. And aswell study Traditional techniques to try find Correlations in that, but principially look at it independently instead of all together at one Time, lol, or whatever
If you watch the Videos i linked, they didnt list a single Traditional Correlation.. So imho, its an interesting thing to exclude Tradition from Terroir, IN ORDER to find more truth. And aswell study Traditional techniques to try find Correlations in that, but principially look at it independently instead of all together at one Time, lol, or whatever
romanoweed
Well-known member
If my Theory is right, then African Tropical Soil is so different than Thai Tropical soil, that the very consistent reports of "Caffeinelike, energizing" Effects of African Weed are made by those Terroir-differences to the "spiritual, dreamy" Effects of Thai Weed. wich is extreemly small, considering we dont even have sunlike lights
I would still not pass on this Idea of replicating Terroir at all, but i myselve have no Idea how to even approach it.. Soil dates back to Millenia long Processes of decomposing Rock.. It all started with Rock, out Rock became Soil over millions of years, with unique Composting,weathering Mechanisms at each Place.. with different Rocks.. I have no idea how to even approach it, but you have my two thumbs up with Plasma-lights and its most natural Colorbalance.
They found also Correlations with UV mesurements, but pointed out smallest quantities too much UV , and the UV becomes totally contraproductive.. puh, its enormously difficult. They also found Correlations of minimally reached Temperatures (lowest Temps reached) . They all had effects on Plants.
. puuh.. one would almost better move to thailad then? can anyone tell me how to approach imitating Thailand, ???
I would still not pass on this Idea of replicating Terroir at all, but i myselve have no Idea how to even approach it.. Soil dates back to Millenia long Processes of decomposing Rock.. It all started with Rock, out Rock became Soil over millions of years, with unique Composting,weathering Mechanisms at each Place.. with different Rocks.. I have no idea how to even approach it, but you have my two thumbs up with Plasma-lights and its most natural Colorbalance.
They found also Correlations with UV mesurements, but pointed out smallest quantities too much UV , and the UV becomes totally contraproductive.. puh, its enormously difficult. They also found Correlations of minimally reached Temperatures (lowest Temps reached) . They all had effects on Plants.
. puuh.. one would almost better move to thailad then? can anyone tell me how to approach imitating Thailand, ???
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goingrey
Well-known member
If my Theory is right, then African Tropical Soil is so different than Thai Tropical soil, that the very consistent reports of "Caffeinelike, energizing" Effects of African Weed are made by those Terroir-differences to the "spiritual, dreamy" Effects of Thai Weed. wich is extreemly small, considering we dont even have sunlike lights
I would still not pass on this Idea of replicating Terroir at all, but i myselve have no Idea how to even approach it.. Soil dates back to Millenia long Processes of decomposing Rock.. It all started with Rock, out Rock became Soil over millions of years, with unique Composting,weathering Mechanisms at each Place.. with different Rocks.. I have no idea how to even approach it, but you have my two thumbs up with Plasma-lights and its most natural Colorbalance.
They found also Correlations with UV mesurements, but pointed out smallest quantities too much UV , and the UV becomes totally contraproductive.. puh, its enormously difficult. They also found Correlations of minimally reached Temperatures (lowest Temps reached) . They all had effects on Plants.
. puuh.. one would almost better move to thailad then? can anyone tell me how to approach imitating Thailand, ???
Probably some soil tests of the native soil would give a good starting point on what kind of mix to create. Same for the water whether that be rain or well water. The plasma light is an interesting option but also could use a high end adjustable-spectrum LED or a purpose built one that mimics the spectrum (though I suppose it will change during the year even in Thailand). Weather reports for temperatures, humidity, and wind...
Taima-da
Well-known member
We could look at terroir as encompassing all process involved but this might be misleading.
Do we include the dutching (alkalizing) of West African chocolate in Belgium as part of the Ghanaian terroir-?
Is the Italian roasting/extracting espresso included in the terroir of Ethiopian coffees?
The liquorice papers used to roll a joint of Netherweed in England included in the terroir of Amsterdam?
Clearly ludicrous.
At some point process becomes distinguished from the strict outline of terroir.
My cobs are quite different from my jar cured in spite of sharing all other environmental/genetic factors. So a useful distinction is to consider the process as well as the other aspects of terroir.
Yoghurt was apparently invented by carrying dairy products on a warm animal's back from place of production to place of consumption. Cobs possibly likewise. Does the terroir of the place of production influence the outcome? Surely.
Is it the whole story?
I dunno, but it's a semantic argument and a stretch at that.
Do we include the dutching (alkalizing) of West African chocolate in Belgium as part of the Ghanaian terroir-?
Is the Italian roasting/extracting espresso included in the terroir of Ethiopian coffees?
The liquorice papers used to roll a joint of Netherweed in England included in the terroir of Amsterdam?
Clearly ludicrous.
At some point process becomes distinguished from the strict outline of terroir.
My cobs are quite different from my jar cured in spite of sharing all other environmental/genetic factors. So a useful distinction is to consider the process as well as the other aspects of terroir.
Yoghurt was apparently invented by carrying dairy products on a warm animal's back from place of production to place of consumption. Cobs possibly likewise. Does the terroir of the place of production influence the outcome? Surely.
Is it the whole story?
I dunno, but it's a semantic argument and a stretch at that.
its not just the soil though , as is described above ,If my Theory is right, then African Tropical Soil is so different than Thai Tropical soil, that the very consistent reports of "Caffeinelike, energizing" Effects of African Weed are made by those Terroir-differences to the "spiritual, dreamy" Effects of Thai Weed. wich is extreemly small, considering we dont even have sunlike lights
I would still not pass on this Idea of replicating Terroir at all, but i myselve have no Idea how to even approach it.. Soil dates back to Millenia long Processes of decomposing Rock.. It all started with Rock, out Rock became Soil over millions of years, with unique Composting,weathering Mechanisms at each Place.. with different Rocks.. I have no idea how to even approach it, but you have my two thumbs up with Plasma-lights and its most natural Colorbalance.
They found also Correlations with UV mesurements, but pointed out smallest quantities too much UV , and the UV becomes totally contraproductive.. puh, its enormously difficult. They also found Correlations of minimally reached Temperatures (lowest Temps reached) . They all had effects on Plants.
. puuh.. one would almost better move to thailad then? can anyone tell me how to approach imitating Thailand, ???
Terroir is a French term used to describe the environmental factors that affect a crop's phenotype, including unique environment contexts, farming practices and a crop's specific growth habitat. Collectively, these contextual characteristics are said to have a character; terroir also refers to this character.
with that in mind , yep you better pack up for thailand roman , hehe,
they have some pretty nice food man , its a great lifestyle and only getting better now there is cannabis freedom there ..
i have definitely had energising thai weed,
more than ive had dreamy,
sometimes the curing changes things ,
one can end up with more narcotic weed due to sweat curing and aging ,
there are many things to consider i guess ...
romanoweed
Well-known member
yeah, now youre going down the unzivilized road, calling it ludicrous, so i try to stay out, and just peace..
But very short, lol
I said, these Guys Theory, "includes" Various factors that each CAN be Terroir at play.
To determine wich are at play, had to be done separately, you usually dont proove multiple things at once.. So, definitly logical..
So, and therefore i said, i would SEPARATE Tradition correlatios from Climatic, Soil, just separate it..
I said that, cause otherwise the Tenor of the thread might go offroad, compleetly overseeing that EACH of the 4 Factors in the Worddefinition could be important, and being important of a CERTAIN Degree..
How strong those Degrees are i wanted to call into attention.. To Avoid, People overseeing the IMHO, MY OPPINION most suspected factors..
But more particullary said: to avoid people just ditching any Knowledge one may get from me telling you about Climate..
This DOESENT mean people having to ditch the Tradition, it only means, that i am not seeing myselve as Confused BY looking at each thing , basically Climate, Tradition independently.. It never stated that Tradition MIGHT not have had an influence aswell..
But however, a i told everything before, like in a loop now, even IF there was Tradition, ONE could probably imitate this without having to make specially deep efforts.. I am pretty shure, if you sit in a Growroom that feels, smells and breaths Thailand basically, together with MY presented aproximate Knowledge, or facts about 70s Thai-culture, even so little, you would mot probably NOT just run into errors, and find out by trial and error. And compared to CLIMATE (terroir) it would be uncomparable easy to imitate..
The reason i do that, cause i want truth, and its probably OK, to try to determine what are the biggest holes in our 1000 Last true Thailovers preservations, and its Climate in my oppinion..
Cannabis isnt coffe.. Coffe screams for a roast, cannabis is differnent.. Roasting is an option, and this option one can evaluate.. So we come to the last implication , that any tropical Landrace is somewht legendary and has high respect. right? So, even IF we did something INDIAN style with our Thai Plants, then most probably it will still stay a legendary cultivar, right? But if we change climate, well it still will stay probably a legendary landrace, but not a tropical one.. And yes i liked Aghani as my 2nd Favorite, and its legendary, but its not even close to what THai gave me. not even close.. So...
We end up with the realisation that my Word-splitting Post previously might have brought clearness..
Of corse you can come with your Coffebeans with better roasting, HOWEVER, me, who t drunk ethiopian Coffe, am well aware, that it might be climate that was the main reason for good coffe, and probably not italian roasting.. im pretty convinced, alltho i never tried Ethiopian Coffe with another Roasting to have any Reason to beleive what i say, but i have a certain Topic, that i believe might be true. PLUS i drank ethiopian coffe, and it was by miles THE BEST Drink i ever drank in my live..
But very short, lol
I said, these Guys Theory, "includes" Various factors that each CAN be Terroir at play.
To determine wich are at play, had to be done separately, you usually dont proove multiple things at once.. So, definitly logical..
So, and therefore i said, i would SEPARATE Tradition correlatios from Climatic, Soil, just separate it..
I said that, cause otherwise the Tenor of the thread might go offroad, compleetly overseeing that EACH of the 4 Factors in the Worddefinition could be important, and being important of a CERTAIN Degree..
How strong those Degrees are i wanted to call into attention.. To Avoid, People overseeing the IMHO, MY OPPINION most suspected factors..
But more particullary said: to avoid people just ditching any Knowledge one may get from me telling you about Climate..
This DOESENT mean people having to ditch the Tradition, it only means, that i am not seeing myselve as Confused BY looking at each thing , basically Climate, Tradition independently.. It never stated that Tradition MIGHT not have had an influence aswell..
But however, a i told everything before, like in a loop now, even IF there was Tradition, ONE could probably imitate this without having to make specially deep efforts.. I am pretty shure, if you sit in a Growroom that feels, smells and breaths Thailand basically, together with MY presented aproximate Knowledge, or facts about 70s Thai-culture, even so little, you would mot probably NOT just run into errors, and find out by trial and error. And compared to CLIMATE (terroir) it would be uncomparable easy to imitate..
The reason i do that, cause i want truth, and its probably OK, to try to determine what are the biggest holes in our 1000 Last true Thailovers preservations, and its Climate in my oppinion..
Cannabis isnt coffe.. Coffe screams for a roast, cannabis is differnent.. Roasting is an option, and this option one can evaluate.. So we come to the last implication , that any tropical Landrace is somewht legendary and has high respect. right? So, even IF we did something INDIAN style with our Thai Plants, then most probably it will still stay a legendary cultivar, right? But if we change climate, well it still will stay probably a legendary landrace, but not a tropical one.. And yes i liked Aghani as my 2nd Favorite, and its legendary, but its not even close to what THai gave me. not even close.. So...
We end up with the realisation that my Word-splitting Post previously might have brought clearness..
Of corse you can come with your Coffebeans with better roasting, HOWEVER, me, who t drunk ethiopian Coffe, am well aware, that it might be climate that was the main reason for good coffe, and probably not italian roasting.. im pretty convinced, alltho i never tried Ethiopian Coffe with another Roasting to have any Reason to beleive what i say, but i have a certain Topic, that i believe might be true. PLUS i drank ethiopian coffe, and it was by miles THE BEST Drink i ever drank in my live..
romanoweed
Well-known member
Oky doky Donald, it was me that brought the Term Terroir into the Forums, atleast i never heard someone ever explaining it to me propperly, probably someon took it in his mouth.... haha now we got the Terroir.. haha, i dunno ey wats going on here.
Yeah, donald, but in the end you ONLY find energizing, ready for fight, high adrenaline , speed-weed in Africa..
When it comes typiclal reaperance of those terms "Caffeinlike, energizing" and the abundance of the words "dreamy", then i basically bet from where it is.. Africa? Shure you probably can find caffeinelike Thai. I describe it rather as most fitting "spiritual dreamy"..
So, you can ONLY find weed that creates a highest degree "spiritual experience, with directivitys of beauty ,dreamyness , kitschy" in SE Asia..
Of corse you may find similar things in Mexico. BUT when i say only, i mean, its just a tad more of certain Traits in certain Regions, of corse you find roundabout uplifting weed here and there, what else.
Yeah, donald, but in the end you ONLY find energizing, ready for fight, high adrenaline , speed-weed in Africa..
When it comes typiclal reaperance of those terms "Caffeinlike, energizing" and the abundance of the words "dreamy", then i basically bet from where it is.. Africa? Shure you probably can find caffeinelike Thai. I describe it rather as most fitting "spiritual dreamy"..
So, you can ONLY find weed that creates a highest degree "spiritual experience, with directivitys of beauty ,dreamyness , kitschy" in SE Asia..
Of corse you may find similar things in Mexico. BUT when i say only, i mean, its just a tad more of certain Traits in certain Regions, of corse you find roundabout uplifting weed here and there, what else.
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goingrey
Well-known member
An interesting read from Sam's thread
Why the concept of terroir matters for drug cannabis production Pierre-Arnaud Chouvy GeoJournal (2022) DOI: 10.1007/s10708-022-10591-x
http://www.geopium.org/wp-content/up...g_cannabis.pdf
This article questions how the concepts of terroir and landrace are relevant for the drug cannabis industry at a time when cannabis legalisation and its associated ‘‘green rush’’ pose a growing threat to both the genetic and cultural diversity that is associated with historical small cannabis farming. The article draws on a multidisciplinary approach based on both extensive secondary sources and primary research. A large and detailed definition work first informs what terroir and landrace are and most especially what they have in common, from the typicity of their end products, to how they owe their existence to geographic remoteness and isolation, and to how tradition and change (or modernity) affect their development and conservation. Defining and connecting terroirs and landraces in historical, anthropological, environmental, and of course chemical terms, makes it possible to determine how cannabis terroirs compare with and differ from other terroirs and plants, based on the rare dual qualities of the plant (being both a food and a drug) but also, given the illegality of its cultivation, on the specific territorial characteristics of its production areas, notably their geographic remoteness and isolation, their politico-territorial control deficits, etc. The article concludes that acknowledging and protecting cannabis terroirs and landraces matters because it favours the conservation and the promotion of a biological, cultural, and sensorial diversity that has endured illegality and repression but is now threatened by legalisation.
Why the concept of terroir matters for drug cannabis production Pierre-Arnaud Chouvy GeoJournal (2022) DOI: 10.1007/s10708-022-10591-x
http://www.geopium.org/wp-content/up...g_cannabis.pdf
This article questions how the concepts of terroir and landrace are relevant for the drug cannabis industry at a time when cannabis legalisation and its associated ‘‘green rush’’ pose a growing threat to both the genetic and cultural diversity that is associated with historical small cannabis farming. The article draws on a multidisciplinary approach based on both extensive secondary sources and primary research. A large and detailed definition work first informs what terroir and landrace are and most especially what they have in common, from the typicity of their end products, to how they owe their existence to geographic remoteness and isolation, and to how tradition and change (or modernity) affect their development and conservation. Defining and connecting terroirs and landraces in historical, anthropological, environmental, and of course chemical terms, makes it possible to determine how cannabis terroirs compare with and differ from other terroirs and plants, based on the rare dual qualities of the plant (being both a food and a drug) but also, given the illegality of its cultivation, on the specific territorial characteristics of its production areas, notably their geographic remoteness and isolation, their politico-territorial control deficits, etc. The article concludes that acknowledging and protecting cannabis terroirs and landraces matters because it favours the conservation and the promotion of a biological, cultural, and sensorial diversity that has endured illegality and repression but is now threatened by legalisation.
romanoweed
Well-known member
I agree with where hempy is going with this. I think genetics plays a crucial role, if not the main one. Selection of these has taken probably hundreds of years. I'm sure I could take a Thai landrace and grow it in another country and produce pretty much the same, not identical but very close. I guess over generations this might change but not that quickly. We all still grow haze hybrids all over the world that were developed in the early 70s with similar results.
Also, I think @hempys indoor Thai is a good example of this being done pretty successfully.
Also, I think @hempys indoor Thai is a good example of this being done pretty successfully.
xet
Active member
sure , they are a crucial part,
but its a package , a bit like anything that has acclimatized to a specific area over time ,
you move it to a similar climate , you will get something similar ,
but right out of its zone , and things get hard to replicate,
the subject, plant , animal , what ever , is not as comfortable ,
and may not produce the same as it would where it is more comfortable ,
perhaps it will adapt to the new climate ,
but by the time it does , it s no longer a landrace from where it hailed from..
i remember when i was about 6 , living in Papua New Guinea,
my dads english friends were having a baby, i went to visit after the birth,
apparently i was pretty excited to see the baby , but got very upset when i did, because i was expecting a kid with dark skin ,
but instead it was white skinned like the parents .... so yea of course genetics matter , i learnt it way back then ,
i reckon the parents would have been a bit surprised if the baby was born as i expected ,, particularly the father ,, lol ...
romanoweed
Well-known member
@Donald you might be right that they delegated the job of Seedmaking to a local "seedtrader" . I dont mean far trading, just local for the surronding Villages.
Thats cause the only notion i ever found, is from a Grandfather of somenone on a Forum, Grandfather said that in vietnam the used a lonely hill to make a Seedrun sometimes.
So this fits spot on to what you are saying.
Alltho, i cant hundret percent assure the "grandfather" spoke about the good old 70s, or modern Times with Massproduction. But its good possible he spoke of the Good old times, why should he mention the lower Quality weed of today if he lived trough the 70s , IMHO! so.. this might be the case... I mean if they were so advanced to be aware of Sensimillia, and they even carefully bound each Thaistick, i find it hard to imagine they would used the probably rare occurance of a hermie to make their next crop! I mean that would also be a risky tactic, if there was no hermie one Year, they would have no seed for next year, and would have to go out of town to find fresh Seed.
3rd possibility, they would just let stand two three Male Branches, cut the most pollensacks, and let it pollinate some few seeds. However, this is hard to control, and if the wind is right, and a few dry Days at the wrong moment, and your whole regions Bud is full of seeds, ive seen that myselve in the good old Swiss days as an accident, a tiny male in a field, the whole field full of Seeds. / and on some other ocasions i had 2 Meter Males, and next door my neigbors Budproduction, lol, but not a single seed was found.. its very uncontrolled.
So, i think the lone hills / Seedtrader method
Thats cause the only notion i ever found, is from a Grandfather of somenone on a Forum, Grandfather said that in vietnam the used a lonely hill to make a Seedrun sometimes.
So this fits spot on to what you are saying.
Alltho, i cant hundret percent assure the "grandfather" spoke about the good old 70s, or modern Times with Massproduction. But its good possible he spoke of the Good old times, why should he mention the lower Quality weed of today if he lived trough the 70s , IMHO! so.. this might be the case... I mean if they were so advanced to be aware of Sensimillia, and they even carefully bound each Thaistick, i find it hard to imagine they would used the probably rare occurance of a hermie to make their next crop! I mean that would also be a risky tactic, if there was no hermie one Year, they would have no seed for next year, and would have to go out of town to find fresh Seed.
3rd possibility, they would just let stand two three Male Branches, cut the most pollensacks, and let it pollinate some few seeds. However, this is hard to control, and if the wind is right, and a few dry Days at the wrong moment, and your whole regions Bud is full of seeds, ive seen that myselve in the good old Swiss days as an accident, a tiny male in a field, the whole field full of Seeds. / and on some other ocasions i had 2 Meter Males, and next door my neigbors Budproduction, lol, but not a single seed was found.. its very uncontrolled.
So, i think the lone hills / Seedtrader method
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xet
Active member
Really fascinating; thank you. Now I am understanding Angus of TRSC a bit better about "the thai/laos" ganja connection and why Laos genetics today are probably these so-call extinct Thai stick genes.
Taima-da
Well-known member
A monthly figure, but still an awesome quantity.
