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Pure Thai Sativas
- Thread starter Samson4
- Start date
Taima-da
Well-known member
Plus human selection over generations one would imagine.I am placing all of my chips on: Terroir
Modern selection criteria are quite different in all probability, not too mention gene pool size, which is open at origin, but very closed if you remove a few seeds and try to reproduce that "pure" ad infinitum.
They sure weren't selecting for any preconceived notion of purity but from the (ever slightly changing) gene pool present over time.
Taima-da
Well-known member
I suspect that if they selected the inferior out they likewise selected for their indicators of personal preference, ie- keeping best traits in the pool.Especially when it is embedded into the entire culture, unlike our new cannabis "culture" of just a few years and mostly underground.
I really suspect they know their ganja even better than we think we do.
Fwiw I've been told that selection not so far away in Aceh has traditionally been for eating qualities, so CBD and combinations that reduce the length of effect, or prematurely tire the user, would be almost certainly be bred out.
Always struck me that ganja (as opposed to resin) varietals are almost certainly high THC to low CBD ratios.
A generalisation perhaps but an accident? No way
xet
Active member
The reasons for selection are not always apparent.
A heavy rain could cause clay to pool water into a patch of the field's plants and drown them.
A large animal could run thru the field and injure many plants causing bugs to eat at their wounds and stunt their growth.
Terroir encompasses all factors including june when 92% of the month is cloudy in Thailand.
An important point here is that unlike commercial crops today the farmers were in their field using hand tools and paying attention to the details kept them from being replaced by a hungrier soul.
Uniformity then would not have been a static thing but a dynamic thing which increased it's improvements over time and the soil increasing it's efficacy over time too.
I suspect at some point there was a phase shift where the hard work suddenly went exponential and whatever was going on then, a rip in time-space or what-have, it worked and the results are still speaking for their self today.
Recently I learned the pure thai stick lives. More on that soon.
xet
Active member
I do not feel it was all so esoteric.
I really suspect they know their ganja even better than we think we do.
A good farmer is worth more than all of the world's bankers and police and politicians.
I was really good at growing plants before ever falling in love with Cannabis.
And I have my mother, grandmother, and great grandmother to thank for that.
When I fell in love with Cannabis a fire was ignited and I pushed myself to learn more and now I am a better farmer than I ever thought possible.
I suspect in the 1970's farmers were masters of the fundamentals of farming and the men and women who helped in the fields followed careful instruction from a lively figure who had crucial knowledge passed onto them from their fathers and mothers.
Thai stick will be revived but as many of you have learned not everyone wants to be high and as @Thule previously stated not everyone is even aware of that special high that a thai stick or acapulco gold or some amazing soaring psychedelic clear and clairvoyant sativa provides. It is truly life-changing. Shakespeare invariably smoked good grass because read what he wrote and the herb resin and pipe was found in his garden.
The markets want herb that flowers fast and gets people stoned.
Invariably the people who control the markets do not want the global market to become aware of certain factors which control the financial systems and the war machine.
Thai stick for me is not only a novelty but a key to liberation for global humanity.
Consider your self a warrior of the herb for having something inside of you telling you to protect this amazing sativa because I suspect there may be only thousands of us on the planet who are aware of what we are pursuing or maybe even fewer.
Taima-da
Well-known member
Just trying to credit the people as well as the soil.
All natural products are a confluence of genetic, environment and Process.
Being able to select from a field of 10 000 or possibly many more would certainly increase the pool from which to grow the progeny of mothers with desirable traits. = greater phenotypic selection per generation.
As you rightly pointed out, potentially compounding over generations. Ganja farmers always and everywhere have a special connection to their crop.
It stands to reason that shortly after criminalisation the great traditional strains started to decline in availability.
The stewardship of the genetic combinations leading to best effect becomes fraught and the genes, while still present, bleed out uncontrolled into the broader population.
In terms of "knowing ganja", nothing esoteric here. Naturally, intimate knowledge comes from centuries of growing, using, careful observation and passing down of learnings.
Many traditional ganja cultures sweat cure. After cobbing for some time I'm 100% sure this is a great improvement to longevity of product in tropical conditions, as well as qualities of effect.
Current dogma dictates one must decarb to enjoy the maximum high from your product, eating a small piece of cob regularly (for non-smokers) will disprove this, traditional consumption methods developed that are longer lasting, more enjoyable and less detrimental to the health. If only eating a small lump or two each day it's easy to appreciate the longer lasting, most joyous and energising selections.
So clearly they knew some things about seed selection, curing, and consumption that we culturally speaking, are yet to fully grasp.
I'm sure there are many examples of within traditional cultures that we will never know about. Lost to the war on "drugs".
The genes they selected all those years ago still resonate with many, and it stands to reason that shortly after criminalisation the great traditional strains started to decline in availability.
The stewardship of the genetic combinations leading to best effect becomes fraught and the genes, while still present, bleed out uncontrolled into the broader population.
I'd really question the statement possibly only a few thousand appreciate the miraculous qualities of good sativas.
-though I agree it would be a small proportion of users in our culture.
It's self evident that those traits are what made traditional ganja strains so valued across much of Asia, Africa and Latin America. In Aceh, where I have been informed that up to 70% of men use cannabis, you still find energising long lasting ganja.
I'm sure the same may be true in pockets of traditional producing regions.
All natural products are a confluence of genetic, environment and Process.
Being able to select from a field of 10 000 or possibly many more would certainly increase the pool from which to grow the progeny of mothers with desirable traits. = greater phenotypic selection per generation.
As you rightly pointed out, potentially compounding over generations. Ganja farmers always and everywhere have a special connection to their crop.
It stands to reason that shortly after criminalisation the great traditional strains started to decline in availability.
The stewardship of the genetic combinations leading to best effect becomes fraught and the genes, while still present, bleed out uncontrolled into the broader population.
In terms of "knowing ganja", nothing esoteric here. Naturally, intimate knowledge comes from centuries of growing, using, careful observation and passing down of learnings.
Many traditional ganja cultures sweat cure. After cobbing for some time I'm 100% sure this is a great improvement to longevity of product in tropical conditions, as well as qualities of effect.
Current dogma dictates one must decarb to enjoy the maximum high from your product, eating a small piece of cob regularly (for non-smokers) will disprove this, traditional consumption methods developed that are longer lasting, more enjoyable and less detrimental to the health. If only eating a small lump or two each day it's easy to appreciate the longer lasting, most joyous and energising selections.
So clearly they knew some things about seed selection, curing, and consumption that we culturally speaking, are yet to fully grasp.
I'm sure there are many examples of within traditional cultures that we will never know about. Lost to the war on "drugs".
The genes they selected all those years ago still resonate with many, and it stands to reason that shortly after criminalisation the great traditional strains started to decline in availability.
The stewardship of the genetic combinations leading to best effect becomes fraught and the genes, while still present, bleed out uncontrolled into the broader population.
I'd really question the statement possibly only a few thousand appreciate the miraculous qualities of good sativas.
-though I agree it would be a small proportion of users in our culture.
It's self evident that those traits are what made traditional ganja strains so valued across much of Asia, Africa and Latin America. In Aceh, where I have been informed that up to 70% of men use cannabis, you still find energising long lasting ganja.
I'm sure the same may be true in pockets of traditional producing regions.
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romanoweed
Well-known member
It may also be less mystical..
If i understood right you elaborated on the idea they selected the best endproducts plants.
Wich is right, no doubt.
But like some breeders today, only have to stemrub a plant, cause they know it for decades, is also possible method that lead to a good improvement.
Im NOT saying the selection wasnt needed, and cause "terroir" influences any decision it was in some way very precise selection BUT.
Again, people probably knew from previous years, wich sorta plants that smelled like _______ should lead to a great resusult if kept next year.
I know from switzerland, that we had also a heirloom/landrace. Called Strawberry. It wasent even consumed that regularly, and predominantly used as a "decorative sweet lookign Gardenplant".
And STILL, its a pretty accepted Strain for smokers. Even the main purpose was to look good and smell sweet.
Further. I can imagine that of corse that the Taste of a Culture mattered..
Ive spent lotta time searching the best on the net, and i found out that the famous Vietnamese came from a Tribe. tribes are often more into spiritual stuff, so they probably selected much more for, well, spiritual enlightment- Effects.. And the more farmer Peoples probably selected for more of a more sane Effect.. who knows.. But i see also that some outstanding congolese brain-trip weed came from Tribes..
Yes, and Terroir is key factor, there is correlation between Phenotypic expression and the Plant grows. , same like Wine, the best comes always form a certain Region, and not surprisingly anywhere where there are similar condition a similar legendary Wine Strain comes from..
For Ganja, that supossedly came from Somewhere in Tibet, if you look at tibetan weather, well, its actually relatively wet, its highland..
And well, tropics are a bit hotter, in general Ganja seems to feel happy in certain Climates.. So, this is just a very strong factor.. many magic strains came from tropics, and often from Highlands (im not hundret percent shure, but vaguely it matches) . Exeption: Thai, and Longflowering Congolese was rather lowland..
So, funnyerwise the Tribe who grew Thai (forgot name) , when i looked the Tribe up, on Wiki, the are suspected to deriver from the very north Laos..
Also, Realseedcompany often pointed out that Thaistick are was a cultural Center , and alot of exchange around this area..
Who knows, i really dont, but probably there was Northlaos HIGHLAND anchestry inside thai.
The purpose of this Foreign heritage theory is rather to determine how precise and strong enviromental Influence even is..
I think it may be very precise science and , again, determines by alot what you select for..
THIS IS ALL MY OPPINION no claim at all.. vague feelings.. Cannabis loves good amounts of Water (besides our modern unresistend fat buds), it loves also some clouds, well like tibetian weather , but when sun, then Strong Sun please.. You see that if you grow Cannabis in shade... it wont grow a millimeter (its really true for tropical strains). It will compleetly stagnate.
So, its interesting to replicate that Tropical highland Climate , to build the basis for a good Selection.. And tropical Soil is pretty different to ours.. some work ahead. After all that, then , one day we can talk about curing.. haha..
Of corse we are limited, but skipping the "terroir class" is not what i would. o would do this frst, atleast to a degree.
Thai was grown from around mid June till Nov. Dec. Look up the climatic diagramms , look up "how is tropical soil composed" . or something like that.. imitate it as good as can. IMHO.
If i understood right you elaborated on the idea they selected the best endproducts plants.
Wich is right, no doubt.
But like some breeders today, only have to stemrub a plant, cause they know it for decades, is also possible method that lead to a good improvement.
Im NOT saying the selection wasnt needed, and cause "terroir" influences any decision it was in some way very precise selection BUT.
Again, people probably knew from previous years, wich sorta plants that smelled like _______ should lead to a great resusult if kept next year.
I know from switzerland, that we had also a heirloom/landrace. Called Strawberry. It wasent even consumed that regularly, and predominantly used as a "decorative sweet lookign Gardenplant".
And STILL, its a pretty accepted Strain for smokers. Even the main purpose was to look good and smell sweet.
Further. I can imagine that of corse that the Taste of a Culture mattered..
Ive spent lotta time searching the best on the net, and i found out that the famous Vietnamese came from a Tribe. tribes are often more into spiritual stuff, so they probably selected much more for, well, spiritual enlightment- Effects.. And the more farmer Peoples probably selected for more of a more sane Effect.. who knows.. But i see also that some outstanding congolese brain-trip weed came from Tribes..
Yes, and Terroir is key factor, there is correlation between Phenotypic expression and the Plant grows. , same like Wine, the best comes always form a certain Region, and not surprisingly anywhere where there are similar condition a similar legendary Wine Strain comes from..
For Ganja, that supossedly came from Somewhere in Tibet, if you look at tibetan weather, well, its actually relatively wet, its highland..
And well, tropics are a bit hotter, in general Ganja seems to feel happy in certain Climates.. So, this is just a very strong factor.. many magic strains came from tropics, and often from Highlands (im not hundret percent shure, but vaguely it matches) . Exeption: Thai, and Longflowering Congolese was rather lowland..
So, funnyerwise the Tribe who grew Thai (forgot name) , when i looked the Tribe up, on Wiki, the are suspected to deriver from the very north Laos..
Also, Realseedcompany often pointed out that Thaistick are was a cultural Center , and alot of exchange around this area..
Who knows, i really dont, but probably there was Northlaos HIGHLAND anchestry inside thai.
The purpose of this Foreign heritage theory is rather to determine how precise and strong enviromental Influence even is..
I think it may be very precise science and , again, determines by alot what you select for..
THIS IS ALL MY OPPINION no claim at all.. vague feelings.. Cannabis loves good amounts of Water (besides our modern unresistend fat buds), it loves also some clouds, well like tibetian weather , but when sun, then Strong Sun please.. You see that if you grow Cannabis in shade... it wont grow a millimeter (its really true for tropical strains). It will compleetly stagnate.
So, its interesting to replicate that Tropical highland Climate , to build the basis for a good Selection.. And tropical Soil is pretty different to ours.. some work ahead. After all that, then , one day we can talk about curing.. haha..
Of corse we are limited, but skipping the "terroir class" is not what i would. o would do this frst, atleast to a degree.
Thai was grown from around mid June till Nov. Dec. Look up the climatic diagramms , look up "how is tropical soil composed" . or something like that.. imitate it as good as can. IMHO.
Taima-da
Well-known member
I agree. They certainly had indicators pegged. Whether by morphology, stem rub, general vigour, colour, effect, flowering time, etc etc.
I remember looking at some wonderful flowers in the mid eighties on which all the glandular heads were aligned in perfect tiny rows along and between pleats. Never seen that one since so clearly, though some of the ace strains have a similar look
I remember looking at some wonderful flowers in the mid eighties on which all the glandular heads were aligned in perfect tiny rows along and between pleats. Never seen that one since so clearly, though some of the ace strains have a similar look
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romanoweed
Well-known member
so, you hear me, certain "Legendary weeds" come all , or often from similar Climates .. Namely Tropical, highland. or just agree on Tropical, so not to make up further discussions..
ao, look up the following video, and you see how strong Terroir changes a Starin. And WITH IT it may change your selection?
So you see what i mean, before anything else, like "selecting from best cobcure" VS "selecting for best Edible" , there seems a strong Pattern, that a certain Climate is correlating with good Cannabis. You can look up all the Channels other Vides, also Temperatures seem to affect strongly, even such details like "temperature spikes" "minmal temperature" . It consistently changes the Product..
And again, cultures Taste and prefferance might also play a rule, but its actually pretty consistent that any Continent, in tropical hills they had good Ganja..
Therefore, i dont even believe Farmers had to be like masterminds.. There are 1000s of Foodlandraces, and they all just became better in many Traits when domesticated over centuries, millenia.. it just happend over millions of Plants slightly beeing steered thowards what humans likings..
Ever so slightly..
ao, look up the following video, and you see how strong Terroir changes a Starin. And WITH IT it may change your selection?
So you see what i mean, before anything else, like "selecting from best cobcure" VS "selecting for best Edible" , there seems a strong Pattern, that a certain Climate is correlating with good Cannabis. You can look up all the Channels other Vides, also Temperatures seem to affect strongly, even such details like "temperature spikes" "minmal temperature" . It consistently changes the Product..
And again, cultures Taste and prefferance might also play a rule, but its actually pretty consistent that any Continent, in tropical hills they had good Ganja..
Therefore, i dont even believe Farmers had to be like masterminds.. There are 1000s of Foodlandraces, and they all just became better in many Traits when domesticated over centuries, millenia.. it just happend over millions of Plants slightly beeing steered thowards what humans likings..
Ever so slightly..
romanoweed
Well-known member
You know, i work with Audio, there we have such a similar Thing. Namely: Musicproducers hear their Enviroment, watch this video... he tells you that any Music-producer needs to Improove the enviroment , BECAUSE you HEAR the Enviroment, but not just the actual MUSIC FILE..
so, you get it the enviroment Sounds.. it makes your Sound appear slightly different.. And thats why Studios always have these special looking Speakers.. Thes Speakers aswell need to be neutral sounding. So, you see, any semiprofessional Musicproducer uses this.. So, you still think enviroment doesent matter? well, does it matter in Breeding too is left open, but.. well.. it makes sense for me that it does.
Cause would a MusicProducer not threat the room, then some Frequencies get increased, and some attenuated by the Reflections. And AUTOMATICALLY the Musicproducers adjusts for it.. If there is too much Bass increase in the Room, he automatically will lower the bass in the Audiofile he creates..
Its therfore an influence on the final Audio file that he creates. And thats what we dont want, cause play this Audio File in another Room with different increase of Frequencies, then well.. it sounds bad..
Its very similar in "Terroir" in that the Enviroment influences our Decisions.. And no serious Musicproducer will ever produce a record without finetuning the Enviroment,,
so, you get it the enviroment Sounds.. it makes your Sound appear slightly different.. And thats why Studios always have these special looking Speakers.. Thes Speakers aswell need to be neutral sounding. So, you see, any semiprofessional Musicproducer uses this.. So, you still think enviroment doesent matter? well, does it matter in Breeding too is left open, but.. well.. it makes sense for me that it does.
Cause would a MusicProducer not threat the room, then some Frequencies get increased, and some attenuated by the Reflections. And AUTOMATICALLY the Musicproducers adjusts for it.. If there is too much Bass increase in the Room, he automatically will lower the bass in the Audiofile he creates..
Its therfore an influence on the final Audio file that he creates. And thats what we dont want, cause play this Audio File in another Room with different increase of Frequencies, then well.. it sounds bad..
Its very similar in "Terroir" in that the Enviroment influences our Decisions.. And no serious Musicproducer will ever produce a record without finetuning the Enviroment,,
romanoweed
Well-known member
its also easy to emphasize "influence of the peoples" aswell.
what im saying i say out of reason. reasoning one more time then: almost any tropical belts continent had a good landrace, columbia, mexico, congo, swazi, southindian, thai, cambod, new guinea
My intention is not to take careless something away, its to scientifically try to define truth..
and imho the "superiority" of the peoples is not as evident like the "terroir " is.
so thats why i said, my priority would be the "replication of enviroment".
ok, fine..
I mean , rarely i see someone talking about this terroir idea, so i just speak, cause i spent alot time trying to find the important things.. like said some exeptional tropical strains came from tribes.. and tribes want to get out there into the spheres, to see the gods, thats what they do, can i see strong correlation of tribes and exeptional landraces?? im uncertain, but am i certain about terroir? pretty much.
what im saying i say out of reason. reasoning one more time then: almost any tropical belts continent had a good landrace, columbia, mexico, congo, swazi, southindian, thai, cambod, new guinea
My intention is not to take careless something away, its to scientifically try to define truth..
and imho the "superiority" of the peoples is not as evident like the "terroir " is.
so thats why i said, my priority would be the "replication of enviroment".
ok, fine..
I mean , rarely i see someone talking about this terroir idea, so i just speak, cause i spent alot time trying to find the important things.. like said some exeptional tropical strains came from tribes.. and tribes want to get out there into the spheres, to see the gods, thats what they do, can i see strong correlation of tribes and exeptional landraces?? im uncertain, but am i certain about terroir? pretty much.
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Taima-da
Well-known member
We have nothing to fear then, of traditional genetic selection becoming lost by introduction of modern strains.
Clearly according to that theory, just let 'em grow in the right environment and you'll be great, given enough time.
Not 100% on that.
Still need people to separate out the less electric uplifting genotypes from the stock. People and place are intimately connected in traditional cultures.
And yes, you would absolutely benefit from having certain climatic conditions, soil types etc.
Goes without saying really.
Clearly according to that theory, just let 'em grow in the right environment and you'll be great, given enough time.
Not 100% on that.
Still need people to separate out the less electric uplifting genotypes from the stock. People and place are intimately connected in traditional cultures.
And yes, you would absolutely benefit from having certain climatic conditions, soil types etc.
Goes without saying really.
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romanoweed
Well-known member
.. listen, i DID SAY, there is no strong correlation between SUPERIORITY of people and exaeptional Landrace.
That means A: that i dont rule out superiority..
B: that even if i did rule out, you cant come with "abundance of any human selection" as a disproove.. WHY? Because i said i dont see any SUPERIORITY-Relation.. That means,. any Human could possibly do that.. I never ment that zero selection is needed. I said there is no superiority correlation..
So, after this negative ruling out i repeat it one more time. I dont see any correlation between Superiority of Peoples, and exeptoionaly Cannabis..
Probably some correlation, but i have to few data aswell to determine if in Southamerica , the most exeptional stuff came from Tribes..
I actually can imagine that the best comes from Tribes.. BUT would only go so far : that i see their Taste ( wich is to get outa Space to see gods) is just needed, but not like a superhuman force that we have problems to "hold the Waters" with..
As long as a Thaistick lover would love Thai like it is, then he would automaticially have the same Taste probably.. And combined with the notion that in Switzerland per ex. They didnt even select strongly for Effect, but just "being beautiful looking and smelling". they still ended up with a pretty good Smokers weed..
do you get my DETERMINATION hopefully..
So, again, i did not mean that I KNOW AND CLAIM there werent any special powers needed, nor did i say a very achiavable by everyone Taste, but Taste is not needed. I said only that i havent seen a strong relation. And ok, i have now clarified that per example in Southamerica such exact data, as from who came the best ever Weed is very hard to come by.
I am vietnamese lover as you probably Know.. From there I HAVE multiple accounts of Peoples all telling the same. they tell that the Tribe called "Mountagnards" had the best weeds. I dont have such clear data from any other place.. if someone has, tel me.. And i mean multiple people all pointing to the same region without exeption..
Since i slightly doubt, any other person has much more widespread clear data where the best came from, since that, i just told:
i dont see strong relation between "superiority of Peoples " and exeptional Landrace.
Its a slight correlation between TRIBES tho , and exeptional Weed.. very very slight.. And it could then be further questioned: were those Tribes living in more secluded Areas, with less foreigen crosspollination? So is it more the Abundance of Hybridisatio that was the recepie for exeptional weed?
All i would say, is that i dont necessarly see older Cultures as better in plantbreeding.. (and i mean breeding for Quality of corse) . So i would rather assume we could manage too . I mean if we love the Thai, then we likely would select for same properties as those Peoples.. no?
So, i would. again as a last statement, prioritize the replication of the enviroment BECAUSE there we have a hundret percent correlation kinda. And with logically thinking, or a certain worldunderstanding, i can imagine that we humans of today probably would have anyway no problems continuing the selection part.. we arent just umb Westeners.. lol just from worldview..
In short: your interpretation of my statement was not necessary the only interpretation possible. it was just a unnecessarly unlogic interpretation / OR to your defense, possibly not clearly enough stated from me. but any scientist would understood me i guess.
That means A: that i dont rule out superiority..
B: that even if i did rule out, you cant come with "abundance of any human selection" as a disproove.. WHY? Because i said i dont see any SUPERIORITY-Relation.. That means,. any Human could possibly do that.. I never ment that zero selection is needed. I said there is no superiority correlation..
So, after this negative ruling out i repeat it one more time. I dont see any correlation between Superiority of Peoples, and exeptoionaly Cannabis..
Probably some correlation, but i have to few data aswell to determine if in Southamerica , the most exeptional stuff came from Tribes..
I actually can imagine that the best comes from Tribes.. BUT would only go so far : that i see their Taste ( wich is to get outa Space to see gods) is just needed, but not like a superhuman force that we have problems to "hold the Waters" with..
As long as a Thaistick lover would love Thai like it is, then he would automaticially have the same Taste probably.. And combined with the notion that in Switzerland per ex. They didnt even select strongly for Effect, but just "being beautiful looking and smelling". they still ended up with a pretty good Smokers weed..
do you get my DETERMINATION hopefully..
So, again, i did not mean that I KNOW AND CLAIM there werent any special powers needed, nor did i say a very achiavable by everyone Taste, but Taste is not needed. I said only that i havent seen a strong relation. And ok, i have now clarified that per example in Southamerica such exact data, as from who came the best ever Weed is very hard to come by.
I am vietnamese lover as you probably Know.. From there I HAVE multiple accounts of Peoples all telling the same. they tell that the Tribe called "Mountagnards" had the best weeds. I dont have such clear data from any other place.. if someone has, tel me.. And i mean multiple people all pointing to the same region without exeption..
Since i slightly doubt, any other person has much more widespread clear data where the best came from, since that, i just told:
i dont see strong relation between "superiority of Peoples " and exeptional Landrace.
Its a slight correlation between TRIBES tho , and exeptional Weed.. very very slight.. And it could then be further questioned: were those Tribes living in more secluded Areas, with less foreigen crosspollination? So is it more the Abundance of Hybridisatio that was the recepie for exeptional weed?
All i would say, is that i dont necessarly see older Cultures as better in plantbreeding.. (and i mean breeding for Quality of corse) . So i would rather assume we could manage too . I mean if we love the Thai, then we likely would select for same properties as those Peoples.. no?
So, i would. again as a last statement, prioritize the replication of the enviroment BECAUSE there we have a hundret percent correlation kinda. And with logically thinking, or a certain worldunderstanding, i can imagine that we humans of today probably would have anyway no problems continuing the selection part.. we arent just umb Westeners.. lol just from worldview..
In short: your interpretation of my statement was not necessary the only interpretation possible. it was just a unnecessarly unlogic interpretation / OR to your defense, possibly not clearly enough stated from me. but any scientist would understood me i guess.
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romanoweed
Well-known member
Probably you need a dose of that following Video, it says that many of todays Food-Plants comes from Wild plants , where the wild ones are often more unfavorable (it is slightly different, cause most Supermarket, or regional Market Strains are then again slected thowards only yeald and Quantitative Traits, wich made them sometimes worsen in actual Quality than wild relatives ) , but you see that it was humans daily job to select a bit of Landraces, so over the Centuries it became improoved in some Qualities, be it beeing sweeter, or jut same tasty as before but bigger fruits .
Look, i just have my Conclusions and for Reasons, right, And this is one of it,, that any culture improved Crops in their sleep basically. haha
Look, i just have my Conclusions and for Reasons, right, And this is one of it,, that any culture improved Crops in their sleep basically. haha
romanoweed
Well-known member
Anyway, enough catfight from my side, haha
i asked once some of the Authors ot the Thaistick-book who were visiting the Source of their Thaisticks about the Terroir they grew their Thaistick in: Here is his Anwser:
Quote: "My Knowledge is limited. Here's what I remember:
Since you have experience in Thailand you will know there are three notable weather seasons - the wet season from around June to October/November, the cool dry season from October/November to around March, and then the hot dry season. There was only one crop a year. Like any outdoor grow in the Northern Hemisphere, it was important to get your crop in the ground before the summer solstice, or just after. From what I saw, the growers liked to have plants in the ground before the wet season began to take advantage of a full period of growth and the free watering. However if their crop was busted early or if the grower got a late start, he would try again maybe just after the solstice. The other reason they wanted to get plants in the ground before the rains came is because as you know, the rains can be so torrential as to flood the towns and fields at times. If that occurred they wanted the plant to be strong enough to have a chance for survival.
At first ganja was grown in very small home gardens along with other vegetables and spices - maybe only one or two plants. There was always a small trade for ganja within Thailand but when the Thais realized they could sell larger quantities to American G.I.s, they began to grow entire gardens of ganja in some places .However, as far as I saw, ganja was always grown in a garden like environment much as growers here in California do today, at first in the home or village, but later in hidden areas in the forest. Ganja was never grown Johnny Appleseed style by tossing seeds hither and non and then coming back later hoping they grew to maturity. The grows were usually tended by a husband wife team or a small group of young men. They were poor people hoping to make enough money to get a start in life. Larger grows would have required protection from the army or police or such. Those did exist too. Whatever the situation, the plants were tended meticulously in the way Thais tend everything they grow. And usually, matter of factly, by Nyaw people from the northeast. Originally in Thailand ganja was grown along the Mekong from about Nong Kai to Mukdahan. This is an area that frequently floods and the alluvial soil is also rich with silt from the Mekong and the many small tributaries that feed into it. The only fertilizer I ever heard used was chicken shit. They also added a few minerals, I can't say what exactly, but white looking stuff I assumed to be calcium. Some guys probably got more sophisticated as time went on.
One of my Thai suppliers told me that ganja could be grown anywhere in Thailand where you had soil and water. He later had grows hidden in the Phu Phan mountains and near Chiang Mai as well.
Besides everything I have written, and in addition to the special seed stock of Thai weed, what I think contributed to the superiority of the Thai product from the region I mentioned is the cool weather that comes just before the end of the growing - late September through October and maybe into November. The plants seemed to like those cool/cold nights and warm days and that's when I think they produced the most resin." Quote
i asked once some of the Authors ot the Thaistick-book who were visiting the Source of their Thaisticks about the Terroir they grew their Thaistick in: Here is his Anwser:
Quote: "My Knowledge is limited. Here's what I remember:
Since you have experience in Thailand you will know there are three notable weather seasons - the wet season from around June to October/November, the cool dry season from October/November to around March, and then the hot dry season. There was only one crop a year. Like any outdoor grow in the Northern Hemisphere, it was important to get your crop in the ground before the summer solstice, or just after. From what I saw, the growers liked to have plants in the ground before the wet season began to take advantage of a full period of growth and the free watering. However if their crop was busted early or if the grower got a late start, he would try again maybe just after the solstice. The other reason they wanted to get plants in the ground before the rains came is because as you know, the rains can be so torrential as to flood the towns and fields at times. If that occurred they wanted the plant to be strong enough to have a chance for survival.
At first ganja was grown in very small home gardens along with other vegetables and spices - maybe only one or two plants. There was always a small trade for ganja within Thailand but when the Thais realized they could sell larger quantities to American G.I.s, they began to grow entire gardens of ganja in some places .However, as far as I saw, ganja was always grown in a garden like environment much as growers here in California do today, at first in the home or village, but later in hidden areas in the forest. Ganja was never grown Johnny Appleseed style by tossing seeds hither and non and then coming back later hoping they grew to maturity. The grows were usually tended by a husband wife team or a small group of young men. They were poor people hoping to make enough money to get a start in life. Larger grows would have required protection from the army or police or such. Those did exist too. Whatever the situation, the plants were tended meticulously in the way Thais tend everything they grow. And usually, matter of factly, by Nyaw people from the northeast. Originally in Thailand ganja was grown along the Mekong from about Nong Kai to Mukdahan. This is an area that frequently floods and the alluvial soil is also rich with silt from the Mekong and the many small tributaries that feed into it. The only fertilizer I ever heard used was chicken shit. They also added a few minerals, I can't say what exactly, but white looking stuff I assumed to be calcium. Some guys probably got more sophisticated as time went on.
One of my Thai suppliers told me that ganja could be grown anywhere in Thailand where you had soil and water. He later had grows hidden in the Phu Phan mountains and near Chiang Mai as well.
Besides everything I have written, and in addition to the special seed stock of Thai weed, what I think contributed to the superiority of the Thai product from the region I mentioned is the cool weather that comes just before the end of the growing - late September through October and maybe into November. The plants seemed to like those cool/cold nights and warm days and that's when I think they produced the most resin." Quote
romanoweed
Well-known member
HOWEVER, i asked him lately where were the Seeds coming from? right..
he told me Thaistick were basically seedless. And he tries to find out , He said he can olnly speculate if an occasional seed occured in the Buds and was used . but he has no Knowledge of that.
he told me Thaistick were basically seedless. And he tries to find out , He said he can olnly speculate if an occasional seed occured in the Buds and was used . but he has no Knowledge of that.
Its the combination of the selection by man ,
and the terroir that has made landraces like thai special and unique ,
this is true of other things man has influenced ,
he selected what he liked , and in combination with the climates and soil types , he ended up with something that suited both himself and grew well where he lived ...
roman ,
as far as i have heard and it seems to ring true knowing how thais tend to delegate things to persons who are best suited to doing those tasks , ie specialize in ,
seeds were made by a breeder , who i guess either sold too , or got a % of the crops grown by said seeds ,
this is true of other cultures also ,
also , they planted after the wet season ,
things flood during the wet season , its just not a good time to have plants in the ground ,
the rain is so heavy at times it will destroy crops and inundate them with water when the rivers break their banks ,
the cannabis crops in thailand were planted as the wet season abated ,
grew for 5 to 6 months , and were harvested in the cooler nights and warm dry days of the dry season , before the days began to increase in length ...
and the terroir that has made landraces like thai special and unique ,
this is true of other things man has influenced ,
he selected what he liked , and in combination with the climates and soil types , he ended up with something that suited both himself and grew well where he lived ...
roman ,
as far as i have heard and it seems to ring true knowing how thais tend to delegate things to persons who are best suited to doing those tasks , ie specialize in ,
seeds were made by a breeder , who i guess either sold too , or got a % of the crops grown by said seeds ,
this is true of other cultures also ,
also , they planted after the wet season ,
things flood during the wet season , its just not a good time to have plants in the ground ,
the rain is so heavy at times it will destroy crops and inundate them with water when the rivers break their banks ,
the cannabis crops in thailand were planted as the wet season abated ,
grew for 5 to 6 months , and were harvested in the cooler nights and warm dry days of the dry season , before the days began to increase in length ...
