I don't know about pure sativa's, but in my own experience low night time temperatures delay maturation.
Proper maturity for an Ace sativa - ignore the trichomes?
- Thread starter de145
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I don't know about pure sativa's, but in my own experience low night time temperatures delay maturation.
i go by feel (crusty, solid feel) instead of visuals. i'm od guerrilla metro grower so safety first, bud rot second in priorities. i do hate popping too early and too late (bud rot, bud deterioration ) is bad. i just ended up going to intuition guided by feel. i pop most plants in stages, bud by bud based on feel.
No worries man, I just cut a sample. I'm going to let parts of it go for many more weeks, I'm just trying to decide when to get the bulk off it because I'm afraid it will start to degrade, so far it's completely intact minus 3 sample buds and it's a scrog with about 40 tips on it.
You make a good case for letting it go long, I'm just concerned with this strain in particular that it might lose it's energetic effect but I will definitely make sure to let parts of it go longer than even suggested by Ace just to see what happens.
You can do this with a toaster over too, but either way you're going to lose terpenes. Make a hood out of aluminum foil that feeds into a cardboard tube from a roll of paper towels, and vape that stuff. Then when its done drying you can smoke it.
Sounds kinda ghetto doesn't it?
I have to disagree based on my personal experience - I've tried with a toaster oven and I would not recommend it.
Microwave steam drying is not just throwing buds in the microwave and nuking them, it's a specific, accurate, repeatable process involving a sheet of wet paper towel, a sheet of dry paper towel and a plastic container with a lid.
Basically you're steaming the buds dry but with as little energy as possible.
I've not noticed any difference in effect between quick dried buds this way and properly cured dried buds. (of course the quick dried don't taste as good
)crazyfool*
Member
No worries man, I just cut a sample. I'm going to let parts of it go for many more weeks, I'm just trying to decide when to get the bulk off it because I'm afraid it will start to degrade, so far it's completely intact minus 3 sample buds and it's a scrog with about 40 tips on it.
You make a good case for letting it go long, I'm just concerned with this strain in particular that it might lose it's energetic effect but I will definitely make sure to let parts of it go longer than even suggested by Ace just to see what happens.
thats the thing with good sativas man, the high doesn´t get muddy, or droopy with long maturation.... i think what I said to a felow forum member might be well applied here.... I have a selected cut of Santa Martha Colombian Gold, and its tricomes don´t get full amber at maturity, maybe about 5 % ...and I know shi is ripe, buds are oily, fat, pistails very mature, 17 weeker sativa, out of arround 200 seeds, she was selected for early finish, taste and high... I´ve let her go to 19...20 weeks, to be chopped with other sativas.... and what I noticed is that the extra maturing didn´t effect the energetic initial high, wich was amazing, cristal clear sativa haigh with no ceiling. but the comedown, witch in this cut is verry unique, and incredibly strong.... its not a couchlock tipe of bodyhigh that happens at comedown, but a strong body vibration, that makes you quiver, and sweat cold ....and thats where shit got scary... it was too strong! the high was awsome, creativity was at its peak, but the comedown that usualy results in a pleasant mellow confortable feeling became a deep drowzy dizzly feeling that made time slow down while my heard would pound hard ! ......
i don´t know if you get what I mean.... but to resume, this specific cut that is ripe at 17 weeks, produce top notcho tropical colombian goodness to the core! when taken to 20 weeks didn´t loose its tropical up giggly sativa goofy feeling high, but made other effects much more present, making this weed hard to chuck at times due to its devastating after effect... making one paranoid, scared, and not relaxed at all! ... and from my sativa experience thats what I usually see, not a decrease in the high feeling, but a much heavier aftereffect, AND something I find worth mentioning is that the terpene profile changes a lot when over mature, sativas with a sweet citrus , lemony, fruity taste usually have their pallat blanded out when over mature, making thes delicious flavors appear only in backround....
to know if if your plant is going to have a decrease in quality ( takinhg in mind you enjoy the up clear sativa high) I´d recomend you let them mature well with no hurry, ocasionally take samples to compare after your total harvest to see at wich week the plant acheaved its peek, and also keep an eye on tricomes, eaven when they don´t turn amber if they start to brake , and fall off, means your plant is passing its maturaty point.
Yes I understand what you mean about the comedown totally, I'll look for that. I suspect my selected Panama could be something that might have a heavy comedown if left longer.
Interesting what you said about the breaking trichomes, I remember reading somewhere that the proper way to judge maturity is not by color but by how "plump" they look. The theory is that when they are fully mature they are at their plumpest and after that they will start to sag over sideways and deflate.
I'm kind of starting to come around to this point of view though of course nothing beats taking samples often.
Unfortunately I don't have the ability to do perfect climate control so the temps will vary greatly throughout the year and I'm thinking that what I determine to be the perfect number of weeks in January might be all wrong for August.
I've always thought that if I see those glands falling off when I'm trimming leaves, I probably let it go a bit too long.
Very nice post CrazyFool!
ThaiBliss
It does vary with a personal tastes but I always take my sativas down "early" as far as trichome color goes. I prefer the clear upbeat sativa effect vs a mind numbing burn out and stone.
A lot of people describe the burned out sedative feeling of an indica or a sativa that has gone too long as potency or strength but to me it is just an unwanted side effect. I could literally smoke through a bale of indica seeking that upbeat happy feeling that a few puffs of a good sativa brings and never reach it. All I would succeed in doing is knocking myself unconscious which for me does not equate to potency or desirability but to each their own. I think most people who end up coming to a breeder like Ace are looking for good quality unique sativa effects and as such I tend to advise people to take their plants a little early but it really all depends on what you are looking for.
When I take down mine there is very little amber, a lot of semi opaque, and maybe a quarter that are still totally clear.
A lot of people describe the burned out sedative feeling of an indica or a sativa that has gone too long as potency or strength but to me it is just an unwanted side effect. I could literally smoke through a bale of indica seeking that upbeat happy feeling that a few puffs of a good sativa brings and never reach it. All I would succeed in doing is knocking myself unconscious which for me does not equate to potency or desirability but to each their own. I think most people who end up coming to a breeder like Ace are looking for good quality unique sativa effects and as such I tend to advise people to take their plants a little early but it really all depends on what you are looking for.
When I take down mine there is very little amber, a lot of semi opaque, and maybe a quarter that are still totally clear.
Here's a related question. Until I started growing I never really had properly cured bud so its been an interesting learning experience for me to cure my harvests. I had no idea just how much it changes the effects and potency.
It seems to me that the longer you cure it, the more a sample will start to pick up increasingly narcotic and indica effects. It's a bit like letting the plant flower for longer. Do others find this to be the case?
For instance I still have a little of my first godly Nep Jam from last year sitting in a jar. As it has aged its become increasingly heavy and narcotic in effect. Originally it definitely had what I would call a sativa effect but the last time I smoked it the experience was dark, heavy and paranoid which is a typical reaction for me to a strong indica hybrid.
It seems to me that the longer you cure it, the more a sample will start to pick up increasingly narcotic and indica effects. It's a bit like letting the plant flower for longer. Do others find this to be the case?
For instance I still have a little of my first godly Nep Jam from last year sitting in a jar. As it has aged its become increasingly heavy and narcotic in effect. Originally it definitely had what I would call a sativa effect but the last time I smoked it the experience was dark, heavy and paranoid which is a typical reaction for me to a strong indica hybrid.
Hello Hatter,
I have to agree partially. I like my weed cured, but mostly to mellow out the green taste, or to round off the rough edges if it is especially paranoia inducing. After a couple of months curing in a cool spot, I put it away in a freezer. Even then, after about 9 months I start to notice degradation into a more sleepy stone. I turn it into hash after that. There is nothing like relatively fresh high quality sativa bud that is 2 or 3 months old.
I think I am in the minority around here. I am not an expert as my best cures happened by accident. The best ever I have had is when I put pretty wet bud in tightly wrapped piece of paper. I put it in the hot dry attic for a week, and luckily it came out perfect. Beautiful color, smell, taste, and the high was great. Since then, I have learned that it is called a "sweat cure" and is widely derided. I would not recommend doing it with a large quantity, as it could easily get moldy. I did about 2 ounces.
For what it's worth,
ThaiBliss
I too prefer my bud cured. I've found that I prefer a short cure to a long one and that it varies greatly from strain to strain and on the relative ripeness of the bud at harvest. This variability may also be due to my lack of experience and skill. I think you were spot on with the 2 to 3 month window being prime for a good sativa. I know a lot of people swear by 6 month+ cures for sativas but it tends to spoil the effect I am seeking.
I think the cure is a good place to try to correct for harvesting too soon or too late. For instance if I go over with a plant a short cure with the bud being very well pre-dried keeps it from getting too sedating and stoney and if I take a plant way too early a longer cure with wetter bud seems to help round out the effects and give the bud proper legs.
great thread
great thread
here are some recent before/after cure results for me.
(and it wasn't until recently that I've appreciated the difference,
in my homegrown.)
all strains/phenos were harvested in March.
"before" was within one month of cure, but far enough after drying.
"after" was left to cure 'til around beginning of this month (5+ mos.)
NepJam
before- meh, muddled.
after- a hoot, floaty-headed euphoric, but could still go take a hike
when told to.
VietnameseBlkThai
before- cool, introspective.
after- warm, expansive- like orient express, but with clarity.
mucho better taste than before.
Johnny Blaze
Pheno1
before- meh.
after- meh-er.
Pheno2
before- meh.
after- much better, bordering on completely different-
even gave me that slightly sun-burned singed feeling
your skin can get when you've had some hazes.
excellent taste after.
cheers
great thread
here are some recent before/after cure results for me.
(and it wasn't until recently that I've appreciated the difference,
in my homegrown.)
all strains/phenos were harvested in March.
"before" was within one month of cure, but far enough after drying.
"after" was left to cure 'til around beginning of this month (5+ mos.)
NepJam
before- meh, muddled.
after- a hoot, floaty-headed euphoric, but could still go take a hike
when told to.
VietnameseBlkThai
before- cool, introspective.
after- warm, expansive- like orient express, but with clarity.
mucho better taste than before.
Johnny Blaze
Pheno1
before- meh.
after- meh-er.
Pheno2
before- meh.
after- much better, bordering on completely different-
even gave me that slightly sun-burned singed feeling
your skin can get when you've had some hazes.
excellent taste after.
cheers
I read a study that compared THC-content of buds stored at room temperature and in the fridge. I can't remember the exact numbers, but the amount of THC lost in 3 months at room temperature is downright shocking, and still very significant in the fridge. Storing in the freezer will slow things down a bit more (chemical reaction rates tend to double/halve with every +/- 10 degrees C temp difference), but the degradation is unavoidable nonetheless. Since cannabinoids probably all have different degradation rates, it stands to reason the overall effect changes with time.
As for the cure, there is no need to guess anymore. I put my buds in a jar after only a few days of pre-drying, when the outside feels crispy but the inside is still soggy. Using a hygrometer inside the jar I determine whether to keep the lid open or not (RH 55-65 % is the sweet spot). Perfect cure every time thus far!
As for the cure, there is no need to guess anymore. I put my buds in a jar after only a few days of pre-drying, when the outside feels crispy but the inside is still soggy. Using a hygrometer inside the jar I determine whether to keep the lid open or not (RH 55-65 % is the sweet spot). Perfect cure every time thus far!
I just found a publication where they observed only cloudy/milky trichomes in CBD but not THC strains (those were bright): http://www.csatc.org/linksofinterest/deMeijer20092.pdf
Sorry, if it's not open access... I'm at university and can't tell but I'm not going against copy-right laws and leave that to mods if they want to.
Sorry, if it's not open access... I'm at university and can't tell but I'm not going against copy-right laws and leave that to mods if they want to.
This is a very interesting topic, but is difficult to find a standard answer for all the growers. The best moment to harvest is very subjective, depends on the grower's preferences, the strain, growing conditions etc ... the same clone will express its traits differently depending on the different growing conditions. This is especially true for the tropical sativas, its long flowering time adds more chance to variation in the flowering conditions and therefore in the outcome too.
All marijuana plants reach a peak of maturation when the plant accumulates the biggest concentration of high quality cannabinoids and terpenes. Before that, terpenes are not fully developed and the cannabinoid production could be higher. After the peak of maturation, the terpenes and cannabinoids start to degenerate and the plant's health start to decrease quickly.
In case of pure indicas or fast flowering hybrids, this desirable peak of maturation lasts only 2 weeks, or a bit less depending on the concrete strain. And after that, the pure indicas die fast and can not react too much to the environmental stimulation.
But the peak of maturation for tropical sativas is wider and depends a lot more of the environmental conditions. A long flowering tropical sativa grown under the right conditions, can flower in different and separated stages, producing new flowers every 3 weeks, especially the big outdoor sativas grown in subtropical/tropical latitude, they can reflower just after a good rain and a few days of intense sun, so the flowers mature in different moments.
You can flower a first generation tropical sativa indoors for 5 months and maybe the outcome is dissapointing, but the same tropical sativa clone, flowered outdoors under the right hot weather can produce a killer outcome in just 3,5 months of flowering. And it's true, the tropical sativa trichomes take lot more time to turn amber, especially indoors.
So to find the effect you are looking for in our genetics, firstly choose the genetics that has the potential to produce the effect or other traits your are looking for. It's important to get familiarized with the same sativa clones to understand how they react to different growing conditions. Try to grow the same mothers in different cycles under a controlled environment so you can setup some standards to be able to judge. Then harvest the sativa at different times during the 3-4 weeks of her peak of maturation. A long flowering sativa usually needs a long curing process to show all its aromatic details and the subtle differences in the effect, usually the curing process is longer than indicas.
Personally, i like to fully mature sativa strains like Malawi, Golden Tiger or Panama (red pheno) to get the deepest experience from this genetics, buy if im looking for an active effect that is not very heavy then i would grow Tikal, Nepal Jam, Orient Express or Bangi Haze, Double Thai and harvest with enough maturation but a bit early. It's just an example of personal preferences and maybe other growers prefer other way.
I would also recommend you to use your own intuition and daily experiences with the plant to judge when is the right moment to harvest.
All marijuana plants reach a peak of maturation when the plant accumulates the biggest concentration of high quality cannabinoids and terpenes. Before that, terpenes are not fully developed and the cannabinoid production could be higher. After the peak of maturation, the terpenes and cannabinoids start to degenerate and the plant's health start to decrease quickly.
In case of pure indicas or fast flowering hybrids, this desirable peak of maturation lasts only 2 weeks, or a bit less depending on the concrete strain. And after that, the pure indicas die fast and can not react too much to the environmental stimulation.
But the peak of maturation for tropical sativas is wider and depends a lot more of the environmental conditions. A long flowering tropical sativa grown under the right conditions, can flower in different and separated stages, producing new flowers every 3 weeks, especially the big outdoor sativas grown in subtropical/tropical latitude, they can reflower just after a good rain and a few days of intense sun, so the flowers mature in different moments.
You can flower a first generation tropical sativa indoors for 5 months and maybe the outcome is dissapointing, but the same tropical sativa clone, flowered outdoors under the right hot weather can produce a killer outcome in just 3,5 months of flowering. And it's true, the tropical sativa trichomes take lot more time to turn amber, especially indoors.
So to find the effect you are looking for in our genetics, firstly choose the genetics that has the potential to produce the effect or other traits your are looking for. It's important to get familiarized with the same sativa clones to understand how they react to different growing conditions. Try to grow the same mothers in different cycles under a controlled environment so you can setup some standards to be able to judge. Then harvest the sativa at different times during the 3-4 weeks of her peak of maturation. A long flowering sativa usually needs a long curing process to show all its aromatic details and the subtle differences in the effect, usually the curing process is longer than indicas.
Personally, i like to fully mature sativa strains like Malawi, Golden Tiger or Panama (red pheno) to get the deepest experience from this genetics, buy if im looking for an active effect that is not very heavy then i would grow Tikal, Nepal Jam, Orient Express or Bangi Haze, Double Thai and harvest with enough maturation but a bit early. It's just an example of personal preferences and maybe other growers prefer other way.
I would also recommend you to use your own intuition and daily experiences with the plant to judge when is the right moment to harvest.
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^ gold ^
thanks for taking the time, d.
From the Pure Thai Sativas thread
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=5318952#post5318952
^ This "rule-breaking" opens more relationship possibilities for me with long-flowering satties. ^
And I'll vape the leave-bud mix, so the extra cellulose will be less of an issue.
cheers
thanks for taking the time, d.
From the Pure Thai Sativas thread
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=5318952#post5318952
^ This "rule-breaking" opens more relationship possibilities for me with long-flowering satties.
^And I'll vape the leave-bud mix, so the extra cellulose will be less of an issue.
cheers
Awesome paper! Thank you for posting that. There is so much interesting in there. I think in the photos it's the high CBG strain that has the most opaque trichomes, not CBD, but I'm not sure if they are saying if it is causative or not as I just skimmed it.
Yes, I could not agree more. That is CBN at work, it's a breakdown cannabinoid and I definitely always register it as feeling "unpleasant" when I get it in great amounts.
Some people have said it's good for medicinal purposes when you want to sleep, I can't think of anything else it would be good for though if even that.
It seems to be generated when buds are flowered too long or are badly stored in too hot or bright conditions or after longer periods of time even in good storage, I guess when they rot or go stale in other words.
Upppsss.... Sorry, de145 is right, its CBG not CBD.
