Project EDEN - the COCO-COOP

[dramamine]

Nice buds, Bone! The cross sounds fantastic.. and I can't believe you flowered in a 5 liter. Awesome!

Gonna be exciting to see what comes out of those seeds...best wishes to you, bro.

 

[gaiusmarius]

it's a lot of fun growing out home made crosses, always gets you some nice surprises. i used to think crossing strains was a waste of time unless you did in with a big warehouse and hundreds or thousands of plants for a few generations. but i'm realizing just how amazing some seeds are from just a simple cross of 2 nice strains. hope your re vegging project goes well, i fucked it up last time i tried to re veg

keep on keeping on bro

 

[bonecarver_OG]

yeah dont under estimate the outcomes of home made crosses - after all if we are working with the same material as many "profesionals" of various banks and such. some cuts we have access to would most likely some "profesional" seed companies kill for.

sometimes i think we have an enormous advantage not beeing bound by businesses, comercial politics, greed and just plain bad knowledge. some seed companies are jokes! selling stuff far below what most experienced growers wouold ever even want to plant.

so in other words, it would be almost silly not to take advantage of this situacion. as long no-ones toes are stepped upon and every body is happy after all its just a search for the holy grail, but not a crusade.

crossing elite cuts, and select comercial cuts is really much more rewarding than just using any two strains, or in general multi strain crosses with incertain outcome.

using allready stable and potent stock for selecting is the key;

the truth is a lot of the selection work has been done allready by a number of ppl.

if both parents used are stable enough, then there is quite certainly going to be a nice outcome. it might not allways be as planned - but it is only in rare cases, crossing two nice plants would turn into inferrior outcome. usually the downsides of outcome that is straying from the plan, is for example plants that get big and lanky etc..

out of the several hundred SSH/PTK seeds handed out to very many ppl, only 2-3 turned out to be awesome, i had one, and the other a grower in the US.

the beeniemans choice is by far the most potent weed my contact ever has had there (jamaica). that is out of several hundred strains, smoked thru the years, by the pound lol. but she - yup the one who brought me the beeniemans choise is a lady! she has worked in the music industry in jamaica. not in beeniemans stall directly.. but thats it for info well this smoke is a gem for sure. and one thing is for sure not very likelly anyone else will have it outside jamaica..

the PTK is famous.. who kows for how long this great variety was selected upon in pakistan before it was brought to california and finally reached the hands of tom hill. he got lots of skills... and now about maybe 20 generations or even more, the ptk is still standing strong...

also we have made this far over 40 crosses, and each time you learn something... about what traits are dominant or not in a certain plant.

in the ssh/ptk we like the resin coverage, the calyx to leaf ratio and yields, also taste is diferent and nice. when i grew out the bunch of beeniemans choise ( i had not a big selection - so i make a 2nd generation using several males) and i saw the amazing trichome coverage on the small but very compact and resinous nugs of the beeniemans choice - i thought it must be tried to cross a few males of this to our keeper female of the ssh/ptk.. and i also made f2 in the same moment with the selected males..

still after agreeing to all this above, i disagree in one thing mate one has to grow out as big amounts as possible for selection. the more the better. it can be done in rounds or u can do it all in one go, but i think atleast 100 seeds should be planted.. this greatly increases selection possibilities.. as long as the best fems are kept any nice male at any time can dust it later etc

but for starts i think its enought o plant a few, and when confirmed if its interesting material or not, then comes the rest..

for example when we made the ssh/ptk x ssh/lp we planted all seeds of the first cross to look for some special females, but all ended up beening very similar (strong SSH leaning) finally i took males of that, also females and crossed it out to other crosses to see if we can get it to be more interesting.. we are currently also growing out

(jackflash x ssh/ptk/ptk) x (ssh/ptk x ssh/lp)
powerplant x (ssh/ptk x ssh/lp)
blockberry x (ssh/ptk x ssh/lp)
blockberry x beeniemans

next step will be to use the ssh/ptk x beeniemans pollen to dust some selected females, including the ssh/ptk keeper..

also - all our keepers have been reveged. its my one and only way of selecting moms etc, since im not into filling up my veg room with clones of uncertain plants, i only reveg the best candidates. this far its quite ok, it saves me lots of veg space.. not having clones all over that later might not be good.. its a gamble though!

the price is every now and then to loose a nice female because she didnt want to reveg - but my honest opinion is there is more out there and if one doesnt make it thru reveg then it was not most likelly something i do wanna work with anyway. i need sturdy plants with lots of veg power, and beeing able to reveg a cut fast is all in the genetics. not all do it.

i can not risk to have a favorite plant that i can loose easy - since here its fucked to try to find a nice cut around - NO-ONE grows anything good around here.. no way to get cuts besides the ones i select.. so my moms better reveg well

this far i have been keeping my SSH/PTK for hella long and reveg her several times

well anyway.. now i hope the SSH/PTK gave of her reveg-strong genes to this particular outcome..

if not ill plant the rest of the seeds - i got several hundreds more of the cross.. and when i run out ill plant the f2 of the beeniemans, and dust again the SSH/ptk and start all over hehe

peace mate!

 

[bonecarver_OG]

should ad the next female of the ssh/ptk x beeniemans choice in flowering is showing a good start..

on the other hand the blockberry/beeniemans choice in end flowering is finally getting very fat calyx and lots of resin, its still not such an impressive example as the ssh/ptk x beeniemans, there is still some time to go, and im sure it will end up as nice smoke after all - but i doubt it will even be in the same race as the ssh/ptk beeniemans... i will have to grow out a a few more of the bb/bc to confirm the tendency - but at the moment it doesnt seem to be a big priority..

i just planted an other 11 seeds of the SSH/PTK/beeniemans choice. all in all today 18. as soon as i get more rockwool plugs ill plant more i want to get an other 30 or so in the rockwool before the week is over.

the ssh/ptk x beeniemans is a bliss in the veg area - small super compact plants, some got big leafes, but they all have had internodal distance of 1cm or less in veg. slow grower.. it means i can veg a lot more in the same space as the more vigorous ones..

the cool part as i see it with the ssh/ptk x beeniemans, apart of the potency and yield, is the fact it grew so much during the first part of flowering.. it really bushed up a lot, wihtout loosing the compactness.

damn im stoked

should ad the next fem is flowering in a 12 liter pot and it is not at all bigger in any way to the first plant in the 5 liter pot.. the changes might show later..

peace

 

[dramamine]

"...its just a search for the holy grail, but not a crusade."

Hahahahaha!!


Bone, I'm wondering: do you feel like a plant's ability to thrive in a smaller container

depends more on frequency of feeding, or on the strain itself? Or is it both?

I know trees can grow in small containers of coco, but maybe some strains are less happy

about it?


...........The new crosses sound nice, man.....

 

[gaiusmarius]

thanks for that very interesting and detailed update on your seed making projects. Sounds like you have been doing a lot of work on your genetics in the last years. that beeniemans choice sounds very promising. will be interesting to see and hear how your projects develop.

yeah i was lucky with my simple cross. a lot more space and higher plant count would have made for broader genetic information in each plant. so far i'm just doing it for fun, it's about getting those nice phenos back and keeping them this time in my mother cab.

keep up the great documentary thread mate.

 

[bonecarver_OG]

"...its just a search for the holy grail, but not a crusade."

Hahahahaha!!


Bone, I'm wondering: do you feel like a plant's ability to thrive in a smaller container

depends more on frequency of feeding, or on the strain itself? Or is it both?

I know trees can grow in small containers of coco, but maybe some strains are less happy

about it?


...........The new crosses sound nice, man.....

its definetly both

 

[bonecarver_OG]

yeah i was lucky with my simple cross. a lot more space and higher plant count would have made for broader genetic information in each plant

its allways a question of luck - its like putting 2 dice in a jar and shake it and see how the genetics recombine. even if its possible to follow some strains traits its something I see in the ready plants and its not really something one can automatically see before doing a cross - one can only assume in forehand.

our plan was in the start to try to stabilize the ssh/ptk into something more than only we can enjoy - in seedform - now we evolved a bit past it. its normal when there is so much material to work with.

a big thank you as allways for my german conection for sending me top quality cuts from the german comercial scene. im very thankfull mate!!

i think the most who do a cross, it must be because they are thinking "what happens if these 2 get mixed" etc

even if we inbreed a cross, at the same time as we backcross it to one parrent or make new crosses with it - its allways because we want to see what happens.

some maths do add up offcourse - and back crossing allways brings back more of the parent used. not too messy

using crosses to breed, where one or both of the parents have same genetics - for examplethe SSH/ptk x SSH/lp gave interesting results - but as the math adds up here again the SSH dominance is big. nice but not really something too amazing. gotto plant of the f2 of the mentioned cross to see how it developed. im rigth now growing out a few crosses where the same dads were used, some crosses are backcrosses on the SSH/ptk side, and on the side of it there is several other where the males got tested on nice fems of good cuts - for example earlier mentioned JAGGEN/SSH/PTK/PTK x SSH/PTKxSSH/LP.

once cross i gotto grow out also is the (jackherrer/corinto/destroyer/MEAO-THAI x PTK) x (SSH/PTKxSSH/LP) .. now this is obviously a shot in the dark - both parents were nice, the mom had enourmos nugs but took about 3-4 months to flower.

i think most likelly the need of really big populations of plants for selecting and breeding with is when a plant is in risk of inbreeding trouble - then of course its best to have lots in the mix.

but for making a killer cross its not necesary to have more than a few parents. that has been proven over and over

well gotto try to plant all that stuff later.. i dont send out beans more than to a chosen few, so lets see.. its gonna take time!

sometimes i feel like i need a field and just go and plant a row of each kind and see how they are - there is too many crosses i am sure we will never grow out..

peace

 

[bonecarver_OG]

i went ahead and prepared to plant 36 more seeds of ssh/ptk x beeniemans. that should be enough for now. its all in all about 50 seeds planted this week. i will plant more later if there is some that dont germ. next round i think i will plant in a few months. inbetween i want to make clones of my favourite cuts.

this time im planting directly in coco.

peace

 

[Tokesome]

Mmmm seeds, I wish I had three times the space I have to play with.

Hey Bones, hope all is good with you, had a great motorbike holiday around Nth Spain and Portugal, I now know what you mean by hot! Loading a tent and equipment and girlfriend on a bike in 40c heat was a killer, what a road trip though.

I`m dropping in to ask if you`d take a look at the last couple of posts I`ve made on my thread. They`re short and wont take you more than a couple of minutes.

The plants are looking great mate, lockouts/def`s a thing of the past and not the slightest signs of over ferting, having that lovely cannabis green as opposed to the over rich green I was getting before, and not one leaf with a hint of tip burn. But I have two different strains running and the difference in the run offs are wildly different between the strains.

I know your general view of keeping nute strength on the low side, but would you take a look and give me your thoughts before I go ahead.

Thanks mate, Toke

 

[bonecarver_OG]

i dont know if my post helped much but i had a look anyway good luck to solve it mate

peace

 

[tricky]

bone carver long time no see hehe

 

[bonecarver_OG]

the other day i had a walk along a river bed in the forest - i mean a dry stream or what to call it.. anyway - i took up a bunch of seeds with me and a pick..

anyway - so i planted them, and hoped for some rain before soon - and luckilly enough this very day its raining, and it might be enough for the seeds to germ.. i planted around 75-100 seeds - in two tigth clusters..

this is my way of making space in the seed stash... this was mostly an old cross i dont care about growing again.

i dont even know if i will go back to the spot in a long time.. it will only be worth going back if we have continuos rains for a few good weeks and i dont really know if its going to hapen..

lets see

peace

 

[bonecarver_OG]

it seems almost all 50 of the SSH/PTK x beeniemans seeds have germed. im not going to plant more for now.

in flowering the 2nd female of the SSH/PTK x beeniemans is showing a very nice and more than promising start. its horselengths before the nr 2 of the blockberry x beeniemans. the calyxes cluster up from the start of flowering, with instant resin content from start. im lightly suspecting the 2nd female of the ssh/ptk x beeniemans is going to be an even better yielder than the first - atleast it seems to build up even quicker. now its left to see how the rest of the flowering goes. from start it has a very good leaf to calyx ratio - hope it continues like that..

this far im rediculously stoked about the ssh/ptk x beeniemans.

also the blockberry beeniemans in end flowering is looking quite ok - not as big nugs as one could hope for - but atleast eh calyx are well swollen and big - its got a lot of resin and is starting to get a nice purple redish hue to to bottom of the leafs and to the calyx in the tip. the bad part is the fact the lower parts of the plant is not as developed at all as the tip - so a lot is going to BHO.

i got 2 more SSH/PTK x beeniemans in flowering - and those i will veg a good bit more before putting them into flower..

peace

 

[Tokesome]

Gd luck with the river bed seeds, worth a gamble when you`ve plenty of seeds eh?

Thanks for dropping in on my post, I`ve split the 2 rez`z now and feeding the 2 different strains what they need, hopefully. lol.

Cheers, Toke

 

[bonecarver_OG]

hehe - i got way too much seeds many of the older crosses i wont bother plant indoors so it was fun to take the beans out..

anyway - we are looking forward to more rain the following days.. lets see how much if its going to rain well - i might go back with nutes in a month or so

i cut today the blockberry x beeniemans - and im surprised at the amount of nug that actually was in there - hidden by the leaf. the tops nug was quite big actually.. maybe worth planting more of these later.. im looking closelly at the 2nd female in flowering of this - and it does look fairly ok - jsut a lot later than the ssh/ptk x beeniemans to fill up - anyway finally the tips are heavy and feel quite solid .. so lets see how it is when dry.

next plants to get harvest are going to be 2 jaggen x ssh/ptk/ptk - and they look like they are going to yield pretty well too - but they might take several weeks more.

finally the ssh/ptk x beeniemans is dry enough to jar it for a bit..

also the chronic looks like its going to outperform this last time in flowering. im lightly thinking about dusting it now with ssh/ptk x beeniemans, but only drawback is the fact the lower potency of the chronic might not make it my first choice of female - but in the other hand it yields enormous nugs..gotto think about it.. could end up nice after all - only thing is dont know how well chronic behaves as a parent..

also i should add - only 3-4 seeds of the ssh/ptk x beeniemans of the 50 planted did not sprout - so its enough for a nice test round.

this far the 2nd female of it in flowering, is almost doubling nug size every day - it looks like it is definetly going to be very productive. this time around the plant is topped. im tempted to let her mature fully this time - and look for reveg plants later in the 50 seeds planted- the reason is i want to see it mature fully to know more how this cross behaves. this far im very happy

peaceall

 

[dramamine]

Hope you're getting lots of rain over there, Bone!

 

[bonecarver_OG]

had a bit of rain yesterday

now it seems it is going to keep fairly dry for a atleast a week or so..

i get tempted to go up to see if there is anything germed or not - and bring some extra water along - but this would be much more work that i planned for - so i figth the urge

peace all

 

[bonecarver_OG]

finally i think the blockhead/blueberry x beeniemans choice is a very very nice smoke. so darn nice im going to plant 50 seeds or so of it as soon as i get some space.

the aroma is skunky but with strawberry/blueberry like tones, with a hint of tropical spice and fruit from the beeniemans choice. in general this cross is slightly more indica dominant than the ssh/ptk x beeneimans choice, a bit slower to mature, but this far id say it was worth the wait. yield wise it is a good producer. a lot of resin and the top nugs are crispy and crunchy, and im sure in slightly lower temps the nugs will bt very solid. the upcoming flowering one is showing good behaviour. the temps now are about 5-7 degrees Cº lower than the last flowering of these. it will make a difference..

the chronic is getting huge and im starting to suspect its going to be about 300g or so on the 3 branches i left on it.

also the newly put in powerplants are behaving very well and are getting into the flowering quickly and are allready building up nugs. small pots seems to make the onset of flowering quicker, with the restrained root space.

rigth now the great mayority of plants in flowering are in 5-6 liter pots, compared to my normal 12-25 liter pots. biggest difference is im forced to water 3 times a day. this far i wouldnt say the yields are NOT affected, first of all since all plants are pistolwhipped, but also it seems smaller pots and frequent watering allows for better controll of EC build up and nutricion. small pots are easier to maintain clean from salt build up.. but also they dry up quick so its a lot more work..

this time around the ssh/ptk x ssh/lp is going to yield very nicelly, same goes with the coming jaggen x ssh/ptk/ptk.

this means now finally the smoke thing got sorted for a while forward..

good times!

 

[bonecarver_OG]

wow.. todays wake and bake has been legendary. im complettelly and utterly hammered out.

in the mix was;
ssh/ptk x beeniemans
blockberry x beeniemans
jaggen x ssh/ptk/ptk
ssh/ptk