Philips 315w CDM Elite (CMH)

[HHULKK]

I was thinking webcams as well. looks super badass! what's the ratio of gavita to lec? bad ass room!

 

[HUGE]

Hi Huge - great looking room, can't wait to see what you do with it. What are the round port like objects in between the fans on the two walls? i thought maybe webcams but there are too many of them. CO2 inlets?

Unfortunately yes those are cameras. This is a licensed facility and we must have all activity on camera. 1 camera for each row, 1 on the entrance.

 

[McKush]

Wow they can be pricey too for the better ones. Ive been looking at a particular one for years but its like 2k or so, its an outdoor model with high end features . Just too big a nut for me tho. Just have to keep peeping out the curtains for now.... lol

 

[HUGE]

I was thinking webcams as well. looks super badass! what's the ratio of gavita to lec? bad ass room!

roughly a 2:1 ratio on lamp count. 2 lec per gavita
or 15k LEC per 30k Gavita

 

[HUGE]

Wow they can be pricey too for the better ones. Ive been looking at a particular one for years but its like 2k or so, its an outdoor model with high end features . Just too big a nut for me tho. Just have to keep peeping out the curtains for now.... lol

yes they are.... 66 cameras total in the place...OUCH.....

 

[Dank Whisperer]

rives and/or Jhhnn, I have a question regarding regarding lamp cord length.

I just got two Philips ballasts and I notice that it states the maximum distance from lamp to ballast is 6 feet. This is something I had not anticipated when choosing reflectors with attached cords. I had hoped to have a "factory" cord (appropriate plug, integral insulation, strain relief, etc.), but mine are 15 feet and it looks like modification will be in order.

I'm wondering if you guys might know if I have any leeway w/ the 6 feet, and if so then what a safe margin would be? I'm not familiar w/ the characteristics of the signal output by the ballast, so I don't know if using a larger conductor would suffice or if it's some other issue with resistance. Thanks.

 

[rives]

rives and/or Jhhnn, I have a question regarding regarding lamp cord length.

I just got two Philips ballasts and I notice that it states the maximum distance from lamp to ballast is 6 feet. This is something I had not anticipated when choosing reflectors with attached cords. I had hoped to have a "factory" cord (appropriate plug, integral insulation, strain relief, etc.), but mine are 15 feet and it looks like modification will be in order.

I'm wondering if you guys might know if I have any leeway w/ the 6 feet, and if so then what a safe margin would be? I'm not familiar w/ the characteristics of the signal output by the ballast, so I don't know if using a larger conductor would suffice or if it's some other issue with resistance. Thanks.

Are these the Philips Advance 1ZTMH-210-315-RLF ballasts? I own quite a few of them and have never seen a lamp-to-ballast distance on them, and couldn't find it on the one that I just checked. Your question sent me scurrying because I thought that I recalled the maximum was up around 30+ feet. The Philips CDM Elite Design Guide on page 32, table 18 says that the maximum lamp cable length is 10 meters (33 feet). This is the June 2010 version of the Guide, there are a number of them.

All of my cables are 15', plus the hard wiring inside the enclosures and the hoods. They all work fine, and have been for quite a while now.

 

[Dank Whisperer]

Are these the Philips Advance 1ZTMH-210-315-RLF ballasts?

Well, that's the model that I ordered from BallastDiscount, and I know they are 210/315, but I don't see that model # after looking at it. I'm not sure about posting pics, but I uploaded it to an album. HERE's a link

(Note: Anyone buying a Philips is advised to make sure it is on the proper setting before firing, I checked the switches to make sure they were on 315, and they were on 210)

 

[Dank Whisperer]

(((I didn't mean to post that last one as it was, and I can't edit.)))

The label is so glossy I couldn't easily read anything that was orange on the label. I saw it better on the pic. But, evidently it is a IZTMH-210-315-R-LF. Do you know if the dash between the R and the LF could mean something? Otherwise... I don't know.

 

[Avenger]

The limiting factor for ballast to lamp wiring is the wires capacitance.

Philips specifies that the 1ZTMH-210-315-RLF ballast to lamp wiring must be below 1000 picofarads capacitance, and this is right about 33 feet with the industry standard 16 AWG SO flexible cable.

If you use 14 AWG, it may shorten the max length allowed, because the larger wire size has a higher capacitance, thus attenuating the ignition voltage.

I tried to locate the Philips document giving the max cable capacitance, but they have changed their OEM design guide yet again. So I will attach a pic of what the latest version says instead.

If anyone has a copy of the Philips 315 CDM OEM design guide version 7, I would like a copy.

edit/

found the the text. will attach a pic of it

 

[Dank Whisperer]

Philips specifies that the 1ZTMH-210-315-RLF ballast to lamp wiring must be below 1000 picofarads capacitance, and this is right about 33 feet with the industry standard 16 AWG SO flexible cable.

If you use 14 AWG, it may shorten the max length allowed, because the larger wire size has a higher capacitance, thus attenuating the ignition voltage.

I tried to locate the Philips document giving the max cable capacitance, but they have changed their OEM design guide yet again. So I will attach a pic of what the latest version says instead.

Thanks Avenger.

Did you see the link to the pic of my ballast? It's in an album on my profile. I had trouble posting it, or I may not be allowed to yet, idk.
Is there anything indication that mine is some kind of different model?

I guess it doesn't matter. I'd really rather not chop up my cord, but if it says 6 feet on the ballast, and I don't have time to exchange them, I'm going to have to. I'm still curious and would like to hear what you guys have to say about why it says 6 foot max distance.

 

[Dank Whisperer]

I just got off of the phone with Philips. From what they're telling me, it looks like all of the new ones now have a 6 foot max distance to the lamp. It used to be ~30, but the new designs are 6 max. It's a good thing to know for anyone considering buying new ones.

 

[Dank Whisperer]

The tech had to call upstairs somewhere because even she didn't have the updated information. But, while she was looking she echoed Avenger's comments regarding capacitance as if she had read my post, saying if the wire was to long it could drop voltage and not fire the bulb properly. Maybe it would fire initially, but the lamp would degrade/fail quickly.

So, 6 feet it is. Because this was a curveball, and I need to get this done, I'm thinking of using some crimp connectors to attach a plug to my lamp cord. Anybody got any reasons why I shouldn't do that as a temporary measure? I'll make it right when it's my budget, but my thought is crimps should work if I have minimal stress on the cord.

 

[Avenger]

Call back and ask them to specify the capacitance, not the cable length.

They have not changed anything with the specs. See page 10 here:
http://d3eurf9v83z5xo.cloudfront.ne...f_Philips_MASTERColour_CDM_Elite_MW_lamps.pdf


by the way I have first hand experience ignoring the labels 6' cable limit, my ballasts work just fine with the standard 12 or 15' reflector cord that came on my reflector from hydrofarm. this is with a ballasts with sticker revision B and E. Your ballast has revision C on the sticker.

 

[milkyjoe]

They have changed the safety factor by 5. They probably had too many people pushing the limit and got tired of it

 

[Dank Whisperer]

I had assumed that they were referring to 16ga since they never mentioned/asked what gauge the wire was. But, that was an assumption, so I'm going to call back.

 

[Avenger]

that may be the case, MJ. but the early version of the OEM guide said 6 ' just like the early label stickers. But the OEM guide from 2010, that is no longer available on the Philips web site says 1000 picofarad with no length descriptor specification. Now the current OEM guide available from the philips website, that I linked to in my last post, says 3 meters and still says 1000 picofarad, but as far as I can tell it was published n 2009. Page 5 of this OEM design Guide version from 2008 says 30' but still says 1 nanofarad(1000picofarad).

The 1000 picofarad spec is more accurate because the length limit specs do not state the wire size. The larger the wire size(conductor diameter) the higher the wires capacitance for the same wire length.

anyway

cheers and good growing

 

[Dank Whisperer]

The 1000 picofarad spec is more accurate because the length limit specs do not state the wire size. The larger the wire size(conductor diameter) the higher the wires capacitance for the same wire length.

It'll take me a little bit to get back with them. My meter only has a resolution of 100,000 pF, so that won't help. In that OEM Design Guide, when it says "1nF of lamp load" does that mean that the load of the 315 lamp is 1nF, or that the cord needs a capacitance of 1nF?

I'm wondering what information I need to extract from Philips to know that the cord I have will work.

I had the worst electronics teacher, and I remember very little on capacitance. Time to back to school.

I'm thinking now that the 6 foot number might come from an assumption by Philips that the ballast would be wired as a separate component, which would mean that to meet code (generally, in US at least) it would be wired w/ 14ga. wire at minimum, or even 12. If designed into a finished product, the use of a smaller gauge wire could be used if it meets testing standards (UL, CE, etc.), but I'm thinking that in producing the label they had to assume it will be used stand-alone, for safety's sake.

 

[Avenger]

In that OEM Design Guide, when it says "1nF of lamp load" does that mean that the load of the 315 lamp is 1nF, or that the cord needs a capacitance of 1nF?

I think it is just poor translation from tech(maybe even tech in a language other than English) to laymans.

They mean that the cord it self that connects the ballast to the lamp needs to be less than 1nanofarad capacitance(1000 picofarads). If the cord has higher capacitance then it will attenuate the ignition voltage too much and may cause lamp starting problems, especially as the lamp ages.


It is the capacitance of the wiring that dictates the maximum distance for any remote igniter circuit.

 

[Dank Whisperer]

I'm wondering what information I need to extract from Philips to know that the cord I have will work.

Disregard. I think I've shaken off enough rust to cover it, I'll post what I hear from Phillips when I speak to them.